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Funfinder pretty well described ,the current attitude that detector
companies have with a prospecting machine.
The F3 is just a good example of a design type,for extreme use as
is the Garrett Recon. Whether either machine is capable ,of making
a good prospecting machine in performance is still up in the air. I expect
that they may do some things OK ,but not an all around good machine
for prospecting. The F3 looks to be an altered SD 2200D set up with
timings for small objects. I could be totally wrong about that too. But
if it is not any better than their other machines,for handling the ground,
it is out of the picture. Been there done that and paid for the ride.
A professional machine needs to be capable of handling all ground types,
and be reliable. The TDI SL handles hot ground and EMI better than any
PI machine I have found. Its only real drawback is raw depth. If you can
match a TDI SL for smooth operation,and hit a 1/2 ounce nugget at an
honest two feet in hot ground anywhere,then you have a real machine.
The beer can at 4 feet in air test,and 32 ounce solid nugget at 3 feet,
does not impress me at all.
Funfinder pretty well described ,the current attitude that detector
companies have with a prospecting machine.
The F3 is just a good example of a design type,for extreme use as
is the Garrett Recon. Whether either machine is capable ,of making
a good prospecting machine in performance is still up in the air. I expect
that they may do some things OK ,but not an all around good machine
for prospecting. The F3 looks to be an altered SD 2200D set up with
timings for small objects. I could be totally wrong about that too. But
if it is not any better than their other machines,for handling the ground,
it is out of the picture. Been there done that and paid for the ride.
A professional machine needs to be capable of handling all ground types,
and be reliable. The TDI SL handles hot ground and EMI better than any
PI machine I have found. Its only real drawback is raw depth. If you can
match a TDI SL for smooth operation,and hit a 1/2 ounce nugget at an
honest two feet in hot ground anywhere,then you have a real machine.
The beer can at 4 feet in air test,and 32 ounce solid nugget at 3 feet,
does not impress me at all.
The F3 and Garret Recon are mil-spec machines. Mil-spec adds probably quite a bit to the price. Otherwise they would probably make good gold detecting machines for most of the gold regions.
The only way to produce a lower cost machine, is high volume production. To produce a few machines for extreme conditions makes them expensive.
For virgin gold regions, the detectors do not need to reach very deep. Lower cost is more important for the beginner.
Once the surface nuggets have been collected, the potential of the gold field has been established and the diggers have accumulated enough experience to advance to the more expensive and more performing detector.
However, all detectors need to be rugged enough to give a minimum of 200 days of good service, to pay for themselves and to provide sufficient gold for the acquisition of the next detector.
The 200 working days are spread over one year. One full year in the field digging for gold provides a good amount of experience. These diggers are capable of teaching the next wave of diggers.
For each digger that has enough gold at the end of the year, to buy the more expensive model, there will be 10 diggers who will buy the entry level detector.
Attached is a picture of the usual type of supply boat. Practically the only way of transport.
In 1982 or thereabouts, there were 100,000 gold diggers digging in that hole. Actually, at the beginning it was a hill, with gold nuggets lying on the surface. They dug with pick and shovel only and carried the pay dirt out of the 300 feet deep hole on their backs.
They recovered about 1.5 million ounces of gold. Many large nuggets, the largest one weighing 52Kg of gold.
Today, the hole has filled with rain water. Still a few people dig in the surrounding area. With pick and shovel as we see on the picture.
Today, the gold digging community has only a few thousand members. Some, like Lady Nilda, showing her gold diggers licence, actually I think it may be her husband's, was there from the beginning.
The picture shows the community meeting.
This is where the sales rep would have to make his speech, to sell his detectors. This is where he will have to convince at least one digger to take him to his claim, so that he can show how the nuggets are found.
He must teach one of the diggers how to make good use of a detector.
From thereon word of mouth will bring him the clients to his doorstep.
There is no internet sales, no credit cards no mail order. It needs a flesh and blood sales rep who knows the language and customs of these people.
Like this one, there are thousands of gold digger communities in many parts of the world.
Hundreds of thousands of potential gold detector sales.
But a market that does only exist as a potential, yet.
You completely missed the point! Forget the F3 and Recon,they have
not been shown to be good gold detectors. Not everyone is working in
virgin ground either. For rich virgin ground any of the current detectors
will work.
What I am talking about is the ground that has already been cherry
picked by current detectors. There is no real upgrade,just higher prices
for a machine that may find a little more. The current top of the line
detectors,are just expensive hobby machines,with no real improvement
in depth. Not all of us live in the jungle ,or live where gold is like hunting
Easter eggs.
My experience with about $20,000.00 in upgrades is real and not hype
from forums. Every new upgrade actually found less gold,because they
were tamed down for smaller gold with no real depth improvement for
larger nuggets. Also there is ground that the supposed up grades can
not handle period with the exception of the TDI. So where is these so
called upgrades for professional miners? Also there is places that there
is 2 feet and more overburden over any gold period.
There is a heck of a lot more to this. We tested for over 3 years and
kept track of every detail,as a commercial project. That is why I only use
a TDI and GM3 now,there is no real upgrades for professional use.
I checked out your photos. Now for a dose of reality!
The pit where all those people are working would not be a
place where a detector would be of any use. They are working
on a known deposit ,and will get any big gold in their work area
along with all the small gold. A detector would just be a distraction
for them. It could also start a war,if it was used to high grade big
nuggets from other peoples work site.
Where the people are panning,what they need is a high banker,not
a detector. Giving a guy a detector in some of these areas would
cause more harm than good. It would tempt them to waste time
looking for a few big nuggets,instead of mining.
I checked out your photos. Now for a dose of reality!
The pit where all those people are working would not be a
place where a detector would be of any use. They are working
on a known deposit ,and will get any big gold in their work area
along with all the small gold. A detector would just be a distraction
for them. It could also start a war,if it was used to high grade big
nuggets from other peoples work site.
Where the people are panning,what they need is a high banker,not
a detector. Giving a guy a detector in some of these areas would
cause more harm than good. It would tempt them to waste time
looking for a few big nuggets,instead of mining.
This morning, while walking down to the river at dawn, I came across a band of about 50 monkeys, big, small and babies, feasting on one of my mango trees. As I approached, they made off into the forest, where they quickly climbed up a tree. This tree is covered with very sharp spines. I always wonder how to manage to climb it, but they seem to prefer it to other trees with smooth bark.
It made me happy.
Anyway, monkey business aside, a few comments about the mine detectors.
These detectors were designed for a specific purpose, locating mines. Mines are usually not buried very deep, so these detectors, while quite sensitive, are not the best for deep nuggets.
What I like about the mine detectors, is their ruggedness, can fit into a backpack, are simple in their use so the learning curve is short.
There are millions of square miles of gold nugget bearing areas in South America and Africa.
Without a detector, people look for visual signs of gold.
Gold nuggets can often be seen after a rain has exposed them. Other times, the people just wash some dirt in the gold pan when the environment "looks as if there might be gold".
Once they find an outcrop, they dig and follow the lead until they reach the place where the overburden gets too high.
Then they go and search for another outcrop.
This is where a detector comes in handy. To find an outcrop.
Along the river banks such outcrops are sometimes found. Also along dry stream beds where they cut across a nugget field.
Of course, in the tropical region where rains are abundant, the vegetation is dense, so the prospector needs to follow some natural path. Often a stream or river.
The place of the big gold hole of the pictures, was called Serra Pelada. This could be translated to "Naked hill". It was the lack of dense vegetation that made it possible for the first nuggets to be found by eye sight only, on top of the hill. Then the just dug and dug as long as they could follow the gold bearing dirt.
These photos are not mine. I was never in this specific mining camp, but it represents many other mining camps that are relatively well organized.
The majority of mining camps are much more disorganized and precarious.
you are so active in the forum, seems your Sun is very hot there. so what your country, what is your native? are you redneck there or Brazilian metis? why you are so silent if I ask you about your Mamma Fatter Goldenland? give a photos of your neigbour. why had you been so silent in Australian forum where people sharply looking around advanced gurus in the PI matter?
you are so active in the forum, seems your Sun is very hot there. so what your country, what is your native? are you redneck there or Brazilian metis? why you are so silent if I ask you about your Mamma Fatter Goldenland? give a photos of your neigbour. why had you been so silent in Australian forum where people sharply looking around advanced gurus in the PI matter?
Hi kt315,
like always, it seems that a good part of the conversation between you and me, gets lost in translation. Will it make you happy if I tell you, that I am living in paradise, Venezuela, where the sun is really very hot, but am native from a country much nearer to your own?
Attached is a picture of my home country.
Then you want to see my neighbor? There is one of the monkeys that steel my mangoes. I often try to talk with him, but I think he does not understand me well, because he throws sticks and fruit at me.
I have lots of other neighbors, see some pictures. The baby alligator scratched on my door and asked to come in. The rattlesnake had a problem with my dogs on the veranda. But in general, we get along just fine.
Now, could we go back talking about metal detectors?
Do you have any good ideas of how we could produce a very rugged design at a low price?
....There is one of the monkeys that steel my mangoes.
The baby alligator scratched on my door and asked to come in. The rattlesnake had a problem with my dogs on the veranda.....
Buy shotgun and use it on monkey! No other way to deal with those!
Drop alligator back to water where it belongs.
Leave rattlesnake alone, let it be. As long as it keeps your courtyard - you will not have problem with damn rats and mice.
....
Back to detectors.
Was wondering about pulse rate at PI nugget hunters...
Is it necessary good nugget hunter to have higher pulse rate or not?
Can we analyze this at existing models?
What would be the main pulse rate at ...let's say 5 top models we know?
Is pps directly related to sensitivity to smallest nuggets?
Common logic will say it is. But is it for real?
Carl's Hammer Head can run up to 2300 pps.
Does this makes it nice for nugget hunting?
I made one in the past. It worked nice.
Yet, at the time i haven't checked it on such targets as are nuggets, needle and titanium screws.
In meantime i exchanged it for something and now i don't have it anymore.
There certainly are many future customers for metal detectors, the other day i built a small very high frequency detector ((100Khz) using just 2 chips, 4093 and 555, it picks up 0.001 grams and can detect out to 6 inches on 1 gram bits, ignores ground minerals, has zero drift and does not interfere with any P.I detector. This could be easily made into a small sub $100 detector for 3rd World Gold seekers.
There certainly are many future customers for metal detectors, the other day i built a small very high frequency detector ((100Khz) using just 2 chips, 4093 and 555, it picks up 0.001 grams and can detect out to 6 inches on 1 gram bits, ignores ground minerals, has zero drift and does not interfere with any P.I detector. This could be easily made into a small sub $100 detector for 3rd World Gold seekers.
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