[QUOTE]Of course they don't post here. This is a skeptics' forum, and it's much easier to go and bury your head in the sand somewhere else that is dowser-friendly./QUOTE]

You're funny! :lol: Do I look like I'm burying my head in the sand? At least I give my real name, and phone number. I don't hide behind phony aliases, fake IP's, and pretend I'm a Scientist. Dell :)

By using the term "burying your head in the sand" I was referring to the proponents of dowsing and MFDs continued denial of the truth. Not the fact that you use someone else's image as your avatar. :razz:

Dell why don't you show your detector working?
 

[quote=Dell Winders;84315]go for Carl's 25k or the one mill. Dell this way you can show carl and us by taking his money.

Dell anyone can post FAKE ON THE NET(SNAKE OIL CRAP)bUT ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS SHOW THAT YOUR STUFF WORKS.:nono:

Depends... if you are interested in the technical merits of remote sensing techniques -- even including LRLs and dowsing -- then this is a Good Place to get that information.

If you are interested in fantasy discussions about devices and methods that only produce a realm of make-believe that gives you the feeling of doing something extraordinary and pretending to be a Big-Time Treasure Hunter, then there are better places for that.

I agree, understand dowsing, and you will understand MFD.

From an LRL perspective, the Remote Sensing forum has turned out to be what I hoped it would be. I had hoped that people would question the "scientific" claims of LRL proponents & manufacturers, investigate the methods used, and explore other potential methods. That's exactly what has happened. Technically competent people have proposed, built, and tested devices and shared their results. I have yet to see a useful method come out of all this, but disproving bogus methods is useful in itself.

- Carl

No, but you dishonestly claim scientific support for your bogus devices.

As I belong to the 'LRL Tribe', I pocess 'data' that you don't.
For instance, I'm aware that there are several and several sucessful LRL users right now retrieving the goods and they swear by their devices. You can assure yourself about this. And you still hope they come here to show what they got?:lol::lol::lol:

C'mon Carl!:shocked:


You bet! Too dangerous for individuals like yourself get their hands in stuff like that.
So yes,I agree. LRLs are bogus...
Regards.

Carl, You are ridicously wrong again.
Of course, your lieing about me is habitual so I know you can't help it, and it's too late for you to change course without repercussions. Yet, I try to have compassion for your predicament. Dell :|

John Baumgardner says I'm right.

Whatever that means Carl? You certainly don't allow facts, or truth get in your way.

If you are referring to the comment I quoted from J.B. I can assure you that his comment is quoted accurately word for word, and in the proper context. I have the video to prove it.

However he is not the Scientist, that has provided me support. I have never met, or talked with J.B. I have apologized for any erroneous inference that he was ever a customer. He was not.

It is my understanding he built his own Frequency Generator from a Heathkit, and independently conducted his own MFD survey of the purported Noah's Ark, archaeological site.

The bottom line, is I started this thread to show that my products are used World wide, and some customers have publicly reported their results, which I am showing, as they have been reported in letters, and video's to me.

I certainly was not the one who brought up the subject of my MFD being used on Turkey's, proclaimed Nuh'n Gemisi site, but it's true, and for some reason there seems to be a bizare interest in it here?

To satisfy your interest, I can truthfully say my products are indeed being used by customers in Turkey, and not a single pull tab has been reported to have been found with my products. Dell :)

So, by your stating your products don't pick up pulltabs, do they signal on gold rings? Are they selective in discriminating all alum?
If this is the case, you have very unique products since there are no portable devices (other than yours) that can do such a feat.
By all means, go into more detail about the pulltabs.

Ummm... so what has been reported to have been found in Turkey? Any treasure?

Are there any email addresses where we can write to these customers to check with them directly and learn about their experiences with the amazing Omnitron treasure machines? Or should we just take your word for it that we are getting the full story from you?

Best wishes,
J_P

WHAT!!! You mean Dell Winders lied to us again? :eek:

Dell fooled Baumgardner into thinking it was Noah's arc, then after Baumgardner said it is all bogus, Dell waited for Baumgardner to die and post his early mistaken conclusions to promote his Omnitron? This seems like a pretty sleazy thing to do to a dead man who isn't here to defend his true position on this matter. :nono:

Did you do it Dell? C'mon... tell us a simple yes or no...

Best wishes,
J_P

:lol: :lol: :lol:
That's a laugh!
Your efforts as a "sultan of spin" are rather sad. When have dowsing and LRL proponents ever let facts. or the truth, get in their way?

In the same way that these products are widely used, and have numerous recommendations from valued clients: :razz:
http://www.soul-astrology.co.uk/recommendations.php

A truthful statement, for once. However, you fail to mention whether anything useful was found by these "customers". :rolleyes:
So far you have only presented some rather shaky and dubious anecdotes, that imply your devices were somehow involved in the detection of certain important historical artifacts. This information is purely subjective, with insufficient evidence to be worthy of serious consideration.

And finally ... the parrot avatar is much more appropriate! :D

Dell and the new bird
 

DELL I like the bird....but STILL WE WANT THE FACTS NOT SCAMS AKA (SNAKE OIL CRAP).;)

It may well have been accurate, but (1) it does not reflect Baumgardner's final conclusions about MFD after he had tested it so you misrepresented him, and (2) you used it without his permission which is highly unethical.

Right... and let me guess... we are not allowed to know the name of this other mysterious scientist who supports the concept of MFD. Therefore, we can just dismiss this claim because it's absolutely meaningless.

He conducted a mag and GPR survey of the site, which showed the MFD survey to be completely wrong.

And people should know that you have both misrepresented opinions and events, and made claims that you refuse to support with any evidence.

It's certainly true that your MFD was used on this site, but the results were garbage. There is a difference between the Truth and the Whole Truth, and you avoid the Whole Truth.

Again we have a Truth, but not the Whole Truth.

- Carl

Dell does not claim that his MFD will locate gold rings, so it's moot. In fact, he doesn't claim his MFD will do anything (read the advertising!).

You're getting people mixed up. David Fasold is the dead guy, he's the one who thought he had found Noah's Ark, sent Dell a letter to that effect, then later changed his mind and concluded the site was a natural formation. Dell does not acknowledge anything beyond the letter he uses to advertise with.

John Baumgardner is a geophysicist who went to the site, did GPR & mag surveys, and showed the MFD surveys to be bogus and useless. Dell posted a quote by Baumgardner -- "I had no idea that such a device existed," something anyone might say on a first impression -- which implied Baumgardner endorsed Dell's products, when the exact opposite was true.

Both of these examples clearly show that Dell is very loose with the facts, and even unethical in his use of endorsements.

- Carl

.

Yes, you are right about that. I had my facts wrong because I didn't read the details close enough.

But this brings an interesting point -- the difference between the facts and the truth.
It appears that Dell stated historically accurate facts.
From what I can see, all the things Dell said happened, did happen, just as he said.

But when we add some more historically accurate facts to the ones Dell told us about, the impression of people's experience with Omnitron products seems to change dramatically. The point being that the truth is not represented by just a collection of a few selected historical facts. We see that if we listen to only the facts Dell wants us to hear, and never hear the rest of the related facts, then we could end up being amongst the exceptionally stupid people who actually pay money for Dell's paint rollers and welding rods to help find treasure.

Consider this example: A man in his amazement, is quoted to say:
"I can't believe it! That bottle of snake oil saved my life... there was nothing else that could have done it in that circumstance".
Now suppose we add some more related facts:
1. The snake oil was in a stainless steel flask in his shirt pocket, along with a piece of paper and a pencil.
2. A stray bullet came his way and penetrated his shirt pocket, heading straight for his heart, but was stopped by the bottle of snake oil instead.

Doesn't this change the picture? So what is the truth? Did the bottle of snake oil save his life? It may be a historically accurate fact, but the truth is that metal bottle with any other liquid could have done the same. So we don't need to go out and buy snake oil to save our lives. By checking with engineers and scientists, we can find that there are much better bullet shields available than metal flasks of snake oil.

But what about Dell spouting off about how he always tells the truth and never lies? I will translate his words to mean he always supplies selected facts to help him sell his gizmoes, omitting and hiding any facts that would taint people's impression of his honesty. If I want a few facts, Dell will supply them. But if I want the truth, I will look elsewhere, from people who have the rest of the facts that Dell does not want us to know about.

Best wishes,
J_P

I agree, he has a sort of a disclaimer worded about his devices in the descriptions, I guess that will keep him out of legal trouble:D:D:lol::lol:.

So Qiaozhi was right?
Is Dell's MFD a "do nothing" gadget? :eek:

Best wishes,
J_P

Dell does provide very select "facts" that narrowly represent his version of the Truth, which is not the Whole Truth.

Ferinstance...

It is true that David Fasold initially believed MFD worked, just as he initially believed in the Ark site. But faced with evidence to the contrary, he changed his mind about the Ark site. This is clearly documented, but Dell chooses only to present Fasold's earlier incorrect view.

It is [probably] true that Baumgardner made the quote Dell used. It is certainly true that Baumgardner later dismissed MFD as bogus, and it is true that Dell used that testimonial without permission.

It is [likely] true that Dell's "products are indeed being used by customers in Turkey." But this narrow fact says nothing about their results, and they may be running a 100% failure rate. I have personally been contacted by several people in Turkey who have bought LRLs (can't remember the brands offhand) and asked me how to get them to work, because they could not.

Now, is it true that Baumgardner is not the "scientist" Dell claims supports MFD? Maybe. But Dell won't name the "scientist", so there is no way to check the honesty of that claim. And, based on his avoidance of Whole Truth disclosure, I suspect there is only a very narrow truth to this claim, and a much more revealing Whole Truth.

That depends on your perspective. When Dell sells a device, he makes money, so it does something for him! I've always said, MFD is designed to find treasure exactly once.

- Carl

Thanks, but I don't need a comb, that photo is me in my younger wild days.

Dell's MFD contraption apparently does exactly what a bent coat hanger (into an L-shape) would do. It works as a result of an ideomotor response. Thus, the added frequency generator and rods electrically connected to AA batteries, or the Weight Check Gimmick or whatever; serve no useful purpose whatsoever.

If you read his advertising; he actually admits this fact.

Excerpt from Dell's advertising: "If you wish to determine if MFD will work for you, bend a pair of L-Rods from coat hangers, wire, or Brass welding rods. Lay a garden hose on the ground and turn on the water. Hold the rods parallel with each other and the ground and walk across the garden hose. If there is no interference the rods will react by crossing and aligning themselves with the electrical/magnetic field generated by the water running through the garden hose."

Now, if you hand 10 individuals a pair of L-rods, show them the expected response when walking over a garden hose; how many of them do you suppose would NOT get the appropriate (ideomotor induced) reaction? I'd have to say every one of them would get the "expected" reaction. Once that happens, the hook is set and another unfortunate sucker is about to be reeled in --since obviously they just qualified to use his LRL/MFD contraption.

Oh, incidentally..... running water through a garden hose DOES NOT generate a electrical or a magnetic field that will influence rods held at waist level (or any other level). If it did, the field would be strong enough so we could dispense with the dowsing rods and merely detect the field with a compass needle, since it would have to be stronger than the ambient geomagnetic field.

Carl is no doubt right. LRL/MFD locates treasure exactly once; when the sucker pays cold hard cash for the contraption.... and Dell laughs all the way to the bank. :D

Even if water was not flowing in the pipe, you would still get the same result. It's the suggestion that sets the scene. This is why it's a trick of the mind.