Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)
Again, you seem to have totally missed to point. The ions are at the capacitor, not the coil. This is the same sensation I get when I am on the signal line from a frequency generator when my body is in resonance. You believe the Air Ion Counter does not count ions in the air?
|
Hi Mike(Mont),
I doubt I missed your point.
You have been alleging that ions are at the capacitor plates, and that you can "feel" them as well as measure the ion count in the air peaking when you adjust the capacitor. Your point seems to be there are ions in the air near the capacitor that increase when the capacitor is adjusted.
I agree the capacitor plates charge and discharge during a cycle where tiny currents are oscillating through the coil to the capacitor.
Your inference which you can't explain is how a passive loop with a capacitor can cause ions to form in the air near the capacitor.
The point is a non-powered loop with a capacitor does not emit ions into the air, and the question is centered around what your meter measured.
Let's review again:
Airborne ions are formed in significant amounts under the following conditions:
1. High voltage in the air, ie: lightning storm, ion generator, Tesla coil, electrostatic air cleaner, cathode ray tube, etc.
2. Related to high voltage is friction, ie: dust storm (wind friction) can cause ions to form in the air, Van de Graff generator, rub shoes on carpet during low humidity, etc.
3. Radiation penetrating the air, ie: Alpha particle, proton from decayed atom, radon gas in the air, cosmic rays, etc.
4. High heat, ie: volcano, forest fire, stove top, foundry, ceramic kiln, etc.
Your explanation is
"The ions are at the capacitor, not the coil".
Airborne ions?
According to your non-grounded and non-zeroed meter measurements, yes.
Your proof is the peak you saw on this non-grounded and non-zeroed ion counter meter when you adjusted the capacitor at a certain point.
But wait...
Let's see what the people who sell this meter have to say about the ions you count with their meter:
http://www.trifield.com/content/about-air-ions/
"Ions cannot be produced without an energy source. An "energy source" means, heat or flame, radioactivity, frictional rubbing, electricity, evaporation (which is a heat process), etc. Minerals that are not radioactive do not spontaneously emit ions. Normal fair-weather ion concentrations are 200 to 800 negative and 250 to 1500 positive ions per cubic centimeter. Indoor levels are usually lower. Several hours before a storm, + ion concentration will increase dramatically, sometimes exceeding 5000 ions per cubic centimeter (cm3). During a storm, - ions increase to several thousand while + ions decrease, often to below 500".
The producers of this meter seem to agree with the classical concept of how ions are produced. It seems they also think ions are only produced when a high amount of energy is present to cause ions to form from high voltage, temperature, friction, or radiation. They do not talk about ions produced when you adjust a capacitor on a passive loop. They also have a full page explaining the need for grounding and zeroing the meter as well as some other precautions that are necessary to prevent false readings:
http://www.trifield.com/content/AIC-Instructions/
-----
However, you posted a link which (I presume) explains why the passive loop antenna with a capacitor also produces ions in the air: http://amasci.com/tesla/tesceive.html
I have read that entire page several times, but I can't seem to find the part about where the passive coil/capacitor produces airborne ions.
He talks about how you could get some high voltages from a resonant loop/cap circuit only in theory, not in practice.
He says we can only expect a tiny amount of power unless impossible conditions can be created:
"Note: the above phenomenon can only occur for an ideal LC circuit, where the resistance of the coil is zero and where the Q of the circuit is infinite".
Basically, he is explaining his version of how a passive loop can improve reception and perform as if it were be a larger antenna, maybe up to the performance of a 1/4 wave dipole if you connected it to a lot of power.
His references to receiving high voltage are theoretical concepts that do not appear in the real world unless you could arrive at an infinite Q with a superconducting coil. He tells us:
"Just as we might expect, everything here is similar to a conventional radio antenna. The weak e-field from the incoming EM waves behaves only as a "signal", and it is not a source of significant power. It can't drive a motor or light an LED".
He also talks about the rather limited application of these loops that increase the "effective antenna size".
"Keep in mind that this device is a relatively small affair sitting in your back yard. It's not a 1KHz quarter-wave dipole tower 25 miles tall. There's no huge antenna, so we would not expect to find any huge level of electric power appearing in the circuit".
He says not to expect any high voltage in your back yard loops, but I don't see anywhere he shows how this backyard loop at can generate ions into the air.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)
You believe the Air Ion Counter does not count ions in the air?
|
I don't know what to believe about this meter. I guess I can believe you did not ground it or zero it before you took readings. I guess I can believe you saw a peak when you were turning the capacitor.
Maybe it can count ions, but was not used properly to count them?
Maybe the meter you used does not count ions?
I don't know.
According to what is known about airborne ions, there is no reason why they should appear as a result of adjusting the capacitor on a backyard passive loop.
That is why these questions still come to mind:
1. Has the ion content of the air actually changed due to the coil being tuned to a resonant frequency?
2. Maybe an RF carrier wave at the tuned frequency has something to do with it?
3. Did the ungrounded meter respond differently than if it was grounded?
4. Could the internal meter circuit be effected by nearby receiver circuits, even if the ion content of the air does not change?
5. Does this particular meter actually count ions -- or is this only what the literature says?
Do you have an explanation how a passive loop and capacitor produce ions in the air?
Best wishes,
J_P