One more to prove the concept

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Carl-NC

You will never ever ever ever ever change their mind. I have seen enough dL'ers to say that with extreme confidence. Suggesting tests like these mean nothing to someone that far gone. You may as well tell an alchoholic to stop drinking, and show him all the reasons why he should. Reasons mean nothing to an alchoholic.

May I suggest that Hung should join a self-help group, such as Dowsers Anonymous?

[Qiaozhi]

From the RangerTell website:

Users are often amused by the scientific calculator attached to the unit. It is a breakthrough only Ranger-Tell has developed. The Ofki© (Omni Field Key Interpreter) concept which uses our unique diode system is connected via induction to the main circuitry inside the control box and outperforms units that are five times more expensive. Our competitors use bulky oscillation principles with too many expensive bells and whistles. Our techs deserve a science prize for this original concept. You can even choose feet or meters, miles or kilometers by pressing two keys.


Amused is not the word I would use. Hilarious would be more appropriate.

[hung]

Originally Posted by Rangertell

Hi Clondike


Rangertell here. We will replace your Examiner on your sending it back to us.


RTL&ES

Hey,I see your support still rocks along the years.
Thanks for being so helpful in Clondike's case.

I'm done with these guys here.

Best Regards.

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Clondike Clad - go for it!
This will no doubt be the latest model with improved frequencies, the correct number of knobs, and suitable diodes in the right places.
We may even be given a new excuse by Hung when you find that it doesn't work.

Yes! Most definitely go for it, CC. You will be out some postage but at least when you get it, try it, and find it works (or conversely doesn't work) just like the one you already have, then the case will be closed.

Or will it.....? Will there be more excuses? ...more reasons why "you" just aren't cut out to make it work?

I know I'm not alone in wondering what the next line of "excuses" will be, but one thing is for sure ---when it does not work, just like the one you have; there will be excuses provided.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by hung

Hey,I see your support still rocks along the years.
Thanks for being so helpful in Clondike's case.
I'm done with these guys here.
Best Regards.

Geee Hung, how old are you ?

[Clondike Clad]

Originally Posted by Rangertell

Hi Clondike


Rangertell here. We will replace your Examiner on your sending it back to us.


RTL&ES

Is it going to cost me to get a replacment?
Also my rt will move but only if i make it move.
How long wil it take to get a replacment?
I would like to get the replacment first and i will send my old unit .
I will keep working with it until I get the new one.
Do you have more way s of test that I can do?

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Well, if the best tests we can come up with are all no good, then how will we know if these LRLs work or not? Must we believe hung's stories that he refuses to prove? How come hung's stories don't agree with the performance observed by others like Clondike-Clad, gold24h, Carl-NC and others?

My suggestion, as always, is "look and see for yourself." I've provided numerous tests that will prove LRLs are bogus. But only if you run those tests and do so honestly.

As you say, Hung provides nothing but verbal claims. Blanes and other manufacturers do the same. Lots of talk, no walk. Take a look at all the treasure found with LRLs, vs all the treasure found with other instruments. dL'ers talk about all the micron gold they find, auras from treasures that have already been removed, vast treasure hoards on gov't property they can't get to, and incredible finds they refuse to show because the black helicopters are circling. Real treasure hunters show you the treasure they've actually recovered. That's how you distinguish the walkers from the talkers.

Look, and see for yourself.

Originally Posted by hung

I'm done with these guys here.

Alcoholics often reach a state of such extreme denial that they will simply stick their fingers in their ears and walk away from any attempt at a rational conversation about their "problem". Very likely Hung realizes that all the tests I listed will show exactly what I said they will show, but his delusions kick in and tell him that LRLs must work no matter how many tests they fail, therefore the tests must be wrong. That is extreme denial.

- Carl

[Rangertell]

Originally Posted by Carl-NC

My suggestion, as always, is "look and see for yourself." I've provided numerous tests that will prove LRLs are bogus. But only if you run those tests and do so honestly.

As you say, Hung provides nothing but verbal claims. Blanes and other manufacturers do the same. Lots of talk, no walk. Take a look at all the treasure found with LRLs, vs all the treasure found with other instruments. dL'ers talk about all the micron gold they find, auras from treasures that have already been removed, vast treasure hoards on gov't property they can't get to, and incredible finds they refuse to show because the black helicopters are circling. Real treasure hunters show you the treasure they've actually recovered. That's how you distinguish the walkers from the talkers.

Look, and see for yourself.



Alcoholics often reach a state of such extreme denial that they will simply stick their fingers in their ears and walk away from any attempt at a rational conversation about their "problem". Very likely Hung realizes that all the tests I listed will show exactly what I said they will show, but his delusions kick in and tell him that LRLs must work no matter how many tests they fail, therefore the tests must be wrong. That is extreme denial.

- Carl

It would be nice Carl if you referred to the correct manufacturer name with Rangertell. It's not Blanes but Brooker. Changing it on your report would be appropriate and respected as this. Thanks in advance.

for G. Brooker, Rangertell

[hung]

Originally Posted by Carl-NC

My suggestion, as always, is "look and see for yourself." I've provided numerous tests that will prove LRLs are bogus. But only if you run those tests and do so honestly.

As you say, Hung provides nothing but verbal claims. Blanes and other manufacturers do the same. Lots of talk, no walk. Take a look at all the treasure found with LRLs, vs all the treasure found with other instruments. dL'ers talk about all the micron gold they find, auras from treasures that have already been removed, vast treasure hoards on gov't property they can't get to, and incredible finds they refuse to show because the black helicopters are circling. Real treasure hunters show you the treasure they've actually recovered. That's how you distinguish the walkers from the talkers.

Look, and see for yourself.



Alcoholics often reach a state of such extreme denial that they will simply stick their fingers in their ears and walk away from any attempt at a rational conversation about their "problem". Very likely Hung realizes that all the tests I listed will show exactly what I said they will show, but his delusions kick in and tell him that LRLs must work no matter how many tests they fail, therefore the tests must be wrong. That is extreme denial.

- Carl

Frankly I did not even bother reading your required tests in some early post, I'm sorryt.
Whatever they are they will only fit your agenda.
I don't want to prove anyting to you or the others. Stop dreaming about that. That will never happen.

Actually along the past 4 years, I started a serious research about those things and did all imaginable tests that provided me all comprehension and learning. Those brought me answers. Those answers led me to develop my sucessful all electronic system. But as the possibilities are vast, we are thinking newer innovations each day.

Your acoholic example fits exactly the ignorant skeptics. So LRLs don't find treasures?
Your 'baiting' attitude just give a big grin in my face. If you could see it right now...

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by Rangertell

It would be nice Carl if you referred to the correct manufacturer name with Rangertell. It's not Blanes but Brooker. Changing it on your report would be appropriate and respected as this. Thanks in advance.

for G. Brooker, Rangertell

I already know your name is Vincent Blanes. I even have your phone number from a customer, that matches the entry for Blanes. And one of the Examiners I own, had your home address on the box. And you initially registered your web site under your real name. Oops, better be more careful with the ol' secret identity!

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by hung

Frankly I did not even bother reading your required tests in some early post, I'm sorryt.
Whatever they are they will only fit your agenda.
I don't want to prove anyting to you or the others. Stop dreaming about that. That will never happen.

Fingers in the ears. Classic denial.

It works no matter how often it fails. Completely delusional.

Yes, a delusional denier will never ever ever ever change his mind, just like I said.

- Carl

[hung]

Carl, I believe you own an arsenal of LRLs, right? You could not make any of them work? Not a single one? Not even half?
This is unbelievable. Take the RT unit you pictured in your report. You stated it could not find anything. With a unit built by me based on that report I could find a silver ring. I say a big thanks to you by the way.

With the PDC 205 that you said did not work, an ex-member of my team found several colonial era gold coins which allowed him to open a restaurant.
Then there are the electroscope and all the others you claim don't work but I already contacted sucessful owners of some of them who are happy users.

Now you own an all electronic device such as the FG80 and still could not make it to work?!
Man, forget LRL scientific research, your are the real object of study!
You deserve tests thoroughly conducted to understand your complete incapacity with those devices.
Assuming you are not lying, when you stated you can't make an LRL work, as I hate liars, the only thing left is this fantastic, complete lack of ability to operate LRLs.
I grant you that the day I arrive in US, I would like to study you.
You are amazing!

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by hung

Assuming you are not lying, when you stated you can't make an LRL work, as I hate liars, the only thing left is this fantastic, complete lack of ability to operate LRLs. You are amazing!

What's really amazing, is how all the expert LRL users I've encountered also can't make an LRL work when I'm watching! They fail just as consistently as I do. Must be those SkepticWaves I emit!

- Carl

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by hung

I don't want to prove anyting to you or the others. Stop dreaming about that. That will never happen.

Really?
Then why are you here? What is your post above for?

Take note:

"How do you help a compulsive liar? You don't!
The person that is the compulsive liar has to reach out for professional help and it doesn't matter what you say or do, this person has to admit they need help. In truth when they say, "they are always the last to know", meaning, an alcoholic never thinks they have a problem with alcohol, a compulsive liar never thinks they lie, etc. Until they reach a point in their lives where they have no place to go but the truth about themselves there is nothing anyone can do for them".

From: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_you...ompulsive_liar
See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudologia_fantastica

I guess Carl-NC was right. Nothing we can do. Maybe some day hung will notice that he is surrounded by people who think his stories are BS. Maybe some day he will read the false information he posted in the Geotech forums and recognize it is false instead of claiming it is not what he posted.

Best wishes,
J_S

[Carl-NC]

No no no! I don't claim for a minute that Hung is lying, and I don't think he is. Rather, he is delusional about his experience with LRLs, and in denial about any information counter to his beliefs. This is a better fit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusion

And don't get me wrong, I do not deny that people who use LRLs never ever find anything. Occasionally (though rarely), they do. So do people who randomly dig holes*.

But I do claim that the LRL itself is incapable of doing what they claim it is doing. People who use LRLs and have made recoveries do so because (1) they've done research, (2) they are looking, and (3) they are also using other tools that Really Work.

- Carl

* There are numerous documented finds made by construction crews. The sum total of all these random recoveries likely exceeds the sum total of all LRL recoveries.

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by hung

With the PDC 205 that you (meaning Carl) said did not work, an ex-member of my team found several colonial era gold coins which allowed him to open a restaurant.

Yet another anecdotal accounting. Seems there is a never-ending supply.

IF... in fact that actually happened, then it is also a fact those same coins would have been found by pure chance, and the aid of a bent coat hanger.

What other conventional instrumentation and/or research methods were utilized in the recovery? LRLers are really good at melding their dowsing gadgets with all sorts of other locating tools and the like, but when it comes to "telling the story"; full credit is given to the dowsing gadget, and there is no mention of the other tools and/or research that actually contributed to the end result.

Not at all unlike the habitual gambler, who loves to tell his friends about all the times he/she was a winner, but conveniently never says a word about the required losses prior to and after the win streak.

[Theseus]

Thanks for the reference, Carl. I hadn't noticed what a perfect fit it is and how exactly it describes the devote practitioners.

From the same reference:
"the three main criteria for a belief to be considered delusional in his book General Psychopathology. These criteria are:

• certainty (held with absolute conviction)
• incorrigibility (not changeable by compelling counterargument or proof to the contrary)
• impossibility or falsity of content (implausible, bizarre or patently untrue)"

That explains the practitioners, but what about those who are not outwardly deluded (ie. Vincent Blanes / Ranger) but pray on the delusional?

The best label I can think of for them is simply, Wallet-miner.

Or, is there a better one?

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Carl-NC

No no no! I don't claim for a minute that Hung is lying, and I don't think he is. Rather, he is delusional about his experience with LRLs, and in denial about any information counter to his beliefs. This is a better fit:

Well, then this explains it!
hung is not a liar. He is deluded, and actually believes his LRLs work. Any lies he tells about the details are things he cannot help, and unaware of doing, because he is blinded into maintaining his delusions about LRLs working.

Fer instance, If hung says he found a fabulous treasure with an LRL, but he can't recover it because it is too dangerous, then there is no lie, because there is no way to prove the treasure was found or not.

Or if hung says he did not post particular words that can be read under a posting with his name on it, he is not lieing. He is simply deluded into believing he does not see his words written in the forum.

I think this behavior falls under the definition of psychosis (loss of contact with reality). But psychosis seems only a side effect of the delusion, and a necessary mental condition needed to support the delusion of having a calculator that finds treasure.

So the bottom line is that hung is not a liar. He is an ok guy who is simply deluded, and makes involuntary false statements which he believes are true, regardless of the obvious preponderance of evidence to the contrary.

Now I feel much better about ignorant fools spending money on junk that does not work.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by hung

I'm done with these guys here.

This is clearly an untruth, as you have already posted twice more since making this statement.

Originally Posted by Carl-NC

... and (3) they are also using other tools that Really Work.

A very similar thing occurs with homeopathic medicines. Someone goes to the doctor and is prescribed some medicine, but after a few days of still not feeling good, they decide to take some alternative medication. Miraculously they start to get better ... just at the point where the conventional medicine is beginning to have an effect. This is certainly ok, if it makes you feel good. BUT - the danger is that next time, they will dispense with going to the doctor all together, and only use the alternative stuff. So the alternative/homeopathic medicine erroneously gets the credit.

The same thing happens with dowsing and LRLs. The dowsing contraption "leads" you to a certain area (that unconsciously looks a good place to metal detect) and you then switch to a conventional metal detector. Guess which device gets the credit for detecting the treasure from several miles away?

Wake up Hung before it's too late and you end up like Dell. Repeat out loud each night 10 times before going to bed: "It's a trick of the mind."

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Wake up Hung before it's too late and you end up like Dell. Repeat out loud each night 10 times before going to bed: "It's a trick of the mind."

Hung doesn´t WANT to wake up, he feels good in his dream and sustend it with stories (i will avoid the world lies ).
If he wakes up his whole world will collapse.And no much will be left i am afraid.
Unless...he will PROVE that LRL works.

[Steve in MS]

I don't think Carl or Hung is lying, it is a difference of opinion and I don't think Carl has a personal grudge against LRLs, he simply doesn't think they work.
Since there is no tests of LRL's to show they work, most of us don't think they work either.
It is really hard for me to believe that a passive device with a pivot point will react to far away metals, I enjoy science fiction movies but I know it isn't for real.

[hung]

Originally Posted by Carl-NC

What's really amazing, is how all the expert LRL users I've encountered also can't make an LRL work when I'm watching! They fail just as consistently as I do. Must be those SkepticWaves I emit!

- Carl

I have to admit... You're a skeptic but you have a lot of sense of humour in a clever way. I like that. You're a funny dude.

Good night Carl & 'entourage'.

[Rangertell]

Really, Carl. That's not important. A thousand Paypal buyers might also think that.
But the constructor of the unit is G. Brooker in all 1000 cases.
Viblertek is co-developer/distributor.

Or do you refer to Rolls-Royce as Royce?
Not many do, unless someone is telling them fibrications.

It's simple Inventors Rights. You think V. Blanes is the maker, so be it.
I guess you wouldn't like it if I Anon, by choice not personality, insisted that Sam wrote and also edited your anti-LRL work to flood the world with disinformation.

You wouldn't like it and wouldn't lay claim by name to anything that wasn't yours if you had scruples.

Not once has there been a post by a V. Blanes re these units. I dare you to produce same.

Imagine this scenario:

G. Brooker invents an LRL unit. V. Blanes co-develops it and writes anon as forum person. He can't though give his name because he hasn't the majority ownership, being co-developer/distributor. Viblertek doesn't allow any rep to give their names. He also would not silly enough to draw the obviously malicious claims of the alien skeptics by telling them.

Then along comes Carl who has an aversion to LRLs, fuelled by Sam, the notorious anti-LRL person, also writing complete and monstrous absurdities.

"This LRL , which I abhor and hate like all other LRLs, cannot possibly work. Why? There are thousands of users and 144/144 positive, time-sequence satisfying Ebay feedbacks (retractions being impossible) and more pics and testimonials than any other maker. V. Blanes the maker (a scientist , not the maker) who has a habit of not using his name, has been manufacturing this glued monstrosity ( a one-off experimental) and they just don't work. It's dowsing (despite perfect evidence to contrary on his website). You could do the same with wires (which would cost you a 1000 bucks just to properly find water.) Imagine charging 700 dollars. It's a ripoff ( despite this being 10 times cheaper than all other LRLs, and with more features and perfect track record.)"

There's no point in arguing and that's why the 2002-05 forums were all this little black duck thought it was worth.

Enough said and no further comment should be ascribed or expected re a very simple event viz an LRL succeeds and the skeptics will not get their facts right.

[Rangertell]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangertell
Hi Clondike


Rangertell here. We will replace your Examiner on your sending it back to us.


RTL&ES
Is it going to cost me to get a replacment?
Also my rt will move but only if i make it move.
How long wil it take to get a replacment?
I would like to get the replacment first and i will send my old unit .
I will keep working with it until I get the new one.
Do you have more way s of test that I can do?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Answered respectively:

In this case it will only cost you the postage.
It's gone.
Seven to 10 days from RT receiving your current unit.
Like ebay we can't do that but I will see.
It works then to some extent?
Tech support is free.

This forum is different to others I have used. For one I can't find the Reply button on the posts. It appears to be appended.

RTL&ES

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Ragertell

Enough said and no further comment should be ascribed or expected re a very simple event viz an LRL succeeds and the skeptics will not get their facts right.

Hi Rangertell,
I am a skeptic about the operation of most long range locators. The reason I am skeptical is because I have never seen anyone demonstrate an LRL working live in front of me. And I also see every person who has been asked to give a live demonstration does not do so. This makes me think they probably don't work.

However, If I could see it demonstrated in front of me, and the demonstrator showed me how to make the LRL work for me as well, then I would become convinced that it works. In fact, I have made several offers to videotape LRLs working in known treasure-bearing areas where I live for all the world to see, but have had no takers. I also have offered to make a professional web page showing videos of the event and with links to all the major treasure forums. Since nobody is willing to make a demonstration, I must assume their LRLs don't work.

My question is:
Does the Rangertell company have an agent who is willing to demonstrate the Rangertell examiner finding treasure in my area (Southern California), and show me how to make the device work for me?
If so, please reply in the PM section.

Best wishes,
J_P