Lrl from Italy

[FrancoItaly]

Unfortunately I have little experience in the search for gold.

[Dubulumach]

Thank you Francoitaly.

What do you think about using wideband noise geneartor instead 8Mhz quartz generator in your last lrl version ?

for example



Best regards
Dubulumach

[FrancoItaly]

Thank you Francoitaly.

What do you think about using wideband noise geneartor instead 8Mhz quartz generator in your last lrl version ?

for example



Best regards
Dubulumach

I think that the best thing is to build my lrl and check the good functioning in your country, only after that you can think of improving it.

[kaligula]

I was playing now with RC constance by variable capacitor and with straching the coil, so there is no big difference of the signals whose is catching. So the phenomenon most be here. By the way I was reading user manuel of one simultaneous device, so it's saying that device is working only from east to west or vice versa. What do you think Franco?

[Dubulumach]

I think that the best thing is to build my lrl and check the good functioning in your country, only after that you can think of improving it.

Done.

your lrl is working, now i need tuning to achieve long distance detection on small targets.
i am working at several projects not only yours in parallel. for example my signal analysis circuitry use 3 bargraph with 30 led diodes for gold threshold detection, while the best variant is 10 bar graphs or lcd screen.

polarity of detected incoming signal depend of input coil winding direction. it means in once case when your touch antenna with one hand or both, signal at output would decay, while in other case, will rise. it seems to me that gold signal noise is bipolar in nature.

Tell me does your lrl react only on gold and silver or also on minerals and valuable constituent ores.

I am novice in gold LRL-PD detection, so need reference manual how to search and detect gold with LRL-PD. If your like help me to find a gold.

I never forget good friends of mine. For 1000 kg gold wealth, 100 kg gold is nothing matter for my good friend who helped me to become a rich man.

Than you FrancoItaly.

BEST REGARDS
DUBULUMACH

[Dubulumach]

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[FrancoItaly]

I was playing now with RC constance by variable capacitor and with straching the coil, so there is no big difference of the signals whose is catching. So the phenomenon most be here. By the way I was reading user manuel of one simultaneous device, so it's saying that device is working only from east to west or vice versa. What do you think Franco?

According to my experience (and others) the sensitivity is maximum in the north / south direction, minimum in the south / north direction and average in the east / west directions and vice versa. I think south of the equator turns in direction, that is, the maximum sensitivity in the south / north direction.

[FrancoItaly]

Done.

your lrl is working, now i need tuning to achieve long distance detection on small targets.
i am working at several projects not only yours in parallel. for example my signal analysis circuitry use 3 bargraph with 30 led diodes for gold threshold detection, while the best variant is 10 bar graphs or lcd screen.

polarity of detected incoming signal depend of input coil winding direction. it means in once case when your touch antenna with one hand or both, signal at output would decay, while in other case, will rise. it seems to me that gold signal noise is bipolar in nature.

Tell me does your lrl react only on gold and silver or also on minerals and valuable constituent ores.

I am novice in gold LRL-PD detection, so need reference manual how to search and detect gold with LRL-PD. If your like help me to find a gold.

I never forget good friends of mine. For 1000 kg gold wealth, 100 kg gold is nothing matter for my good friend who helped me to become a rich man.

Than you FrancoItaly.

BEST REGARDS
DUBULUMACH

As I said, I have little experience on real field research. However, I think the lrl are sensitive to almost all non-ferrous metals, certainly to the most interesting ones, that is gold, silver and copper.
As for the sensitivity to small objects, the only experience I have is the revelation of a brass cartridge about 1 m away and buried a few inches. I think the distance depends on both the target size and the burial time. The depth of detection is no doubt higher than that of the metal detectors, in fact many times I had a good signal from lrl but my metal detector was silent.

[Dubulumach]

Thank you very much FrancoItaly.

Yes your lrl design is working and working excellent. Quartz version. I think you again have right. The distance depends on target size.

Soon i will finish hef4046 lrl version and try at test field.

Question, for you
Does at output of sensor stage, at collector T4 BC183c at point "X" should be pure sine signal like in quartz version, or impulse signal, or something else, and if yes sine, how to achive this ? How to tune and adjust hef4046 version ?


As i already have read at 4046 lrl thread, you have told lrl man Geo that his oscilloscope snapshoots are not good. Not valid. Would you like to draw correct oscilloscope signal waveforms at characteristic points of hef4046 lrl circuit. For example draw on paper, make snap with mobile phone and post here or more easy download attached picture and draw characteristic signals of yours tuned HEF4046 lrl, with windows paint program. I need these snapshoots because i all tuning and control i make with oscilloscope.

What is the best variant for hef4046 lrl antenna, coil or short-circuit stylus-whip antenna?

Sincerely
Dubulumach

[FrancoItaly]

Thank you very much FrancoItaly.

Yes your lrl design is working and working excellent. Quartz version. I think you again have right. The distance depends on target size.

Soon i will finish hef4046 lrl version and try at test field.

Question,

Does at output of sensor stage, at collector T4 BC183c at point "X" should be pure sinius signal like in quartz version, or impulse signal, or something else, and if yes sinus, how to achive this ? How to tune and adjust hef4046 version ?

Sincerely
Dubulumach

It is difficult to observe the waveform at point X as the oscilloscope probe affects the amplitude of the signal. I suggest adding the TR5 stage (I'm referring to the 8mhz quartz version) and having as reference DC voltage, waveform is not important, also this output will be useful later for the comparison between phase variation and variations of amplitude. As for the 4046 I recommend using a frequency of 2.5Mhz, higher frequencies, to the limit of the chips possibilities (at least that in my obsession) cause an excessive absorption.

[FrancoItaly]

However I'm not in Italy and I do not have my own lab available, but I remember that in the sensor stage the oscilloscope was virtually inoperable. It concerns the type of antenna, is substantially equal, but the stylus antenna allows to increase the sensitivity only stretching it. You can also use multiple antennas connected together.

[Dubulumach]

Thank you FrancoItaly

You thought adding the TR5 stage as emitter-follower to hef4046 version and take signal without rectification to input of phase comparator or something else like more amplification stage with grounded emitter bc183c ?

I have tested the Quartz version at my test polygon with seveal silver coins and small gold necklace 30 cm in deep, clean soil. I have got strong signal after tuning input coil inductance, about 2,5m - 3m from the targets. Both targets are at distance more than 1 m from each other. Other test via hand near the antenne 5-10 cm, signal drop at outpu of dc stage. I am using long aluminium handle, grounded to minus pole of battery, like in your lrl.

Multiple antennas connected together electrically each other or via small variable capacitors ?

About observation of waveforms at point X., no need for direct contact with point X, just put the sensitive high impenadance oscilloscope probe couple of milimeters near collector and waveform is at the screen withouth affecting amplitude of the signal.

I am thinking about some kind of AGC auto-gain-control circuit for oscillator quartz version, simple give so much attenuated signal from oscillator to base of TR2, untill we maintain some good detected signal level at output of rectification stage.

Does amplitude of detected phenomenon signal is dependent from the sorts of noble metals ? If yes THIS COULD BE USED TO MAKE SOME SORT OF DISCRIMINATION compare it with some initial values from silver and gold targets at given distance, using very precise dc voltmeter x.xxxxx precision instead of display stage.

Best regards
dubulumach

[FrancoItaly]

Thank you FrancoItaly

You thought adding the TR5 stage as emitter-follower to hef4046 version and take signal without rectification to input of phase comparator or something else like more amplification stage with grounded emitter bc183c ?

I have tested the Quartz version at my test polygon with seveal silver coins and small gold necklace 30 cm in deep, clean soil. I have got strong signal after tuning input coil inductance, about 2,5m - 3m from the targets. Both targets are at distance more than 1 m from each other.

Multiple antennas connected together electrically each other or via small variable capacitors ?

About observation of waveforms at point X., no need for direct contact with point X, just put the sensitive high impenadance oscilloscope probe couple of milimeters near collector and waveform is at the screen withouth affecting amplitude of the signal.


Best regards
dubulumach

Good idea for scope measure. Multiple antennas are connected together electrically each other. It's only necessary to add the tr5 stage, no other changes for 4046 stage.

[Dubulumach]

Thank you Francoitaly

Reread my previous post i have just updated it, with my new questions.

And yes, have a nice day, today.

Best regards
dubulumach

[FrancoItaly]

Thank you FrancoItaly

You thought adding the TR5 stage as emitter-follower to hef4046 version and take signal without rectification to input of phase comparator or something else like more amplification stage with grounded emitter bc183c ?

I have tested the Quartz version at my test polygon with seveal silver coins and small gold necklace 30 cm in deep, clean soil. I have got strong signal after tuning input coil inductance, about 2,5m - 3m from the targets. Both targets are at distance more than 1 m from each other. Other test via hand near the antenne 5-10 cm, signal drop at outpu of dc stage. I am using long aluminium handle, grounded to minus pole of battery, like in your lrl.

Multiple antennas connected together electrically each other or via small variable capacitors ?

About observation of waveforms at point X., no need for direct contact with point X, just put the sensitive high impenadance oscilloscope probe couple of milimeters near collector and waveform is at the screen withouth affecting amplitude of the signal.

I am thinking about some kind of AGC auto-gain-control circuit for oscillator quartz version, simple give so much attenuated signal from oscillator to base of TR2, untill we maintain some good detected signal level at output of rectification stage.

Does amplitude of detected phenomenon signal is dependent from the sorts of noble metals ? If yes THIS COULD BE USED TO MAKE SOME SORT OF DISCRIMINATION compare it with some initial values from silver and gold targets at given distance, using very precise dc voltmeter x.xxxxx precision instead of display stage.

Best regards
dubulumach

In my opinion, the quartz oscillator signal is already very stable and therefore no automatic amplitude control is required. The phenomenon simply causes an increase in signal output and it is not possible to obtain discrimination by observing only variations in amplitude, even in metal detectors, it is also important to consider the variations in phase amplitude as well as the variations in amplitude.