PD schematic interpretations

[Morgan]

Well i think it´s time to go ahead and be positive Geo, you asked for this thread to be open , now asking to close it ...
Just let move on... Dont be childish...

What we are MEASURING ENRGY,ELECTROMAGNETIC FIELDS,IONS ???

UNDERGROUND METALS :

IRON - create rusty and decomposed after many years.Not located by LRL

Copper or Bronze - well conductive but uderground create verdigris(patina) this isolate the metal to transmit contact to the ground and produce the energy field. Sometimes can be located by LRL

Aluminium - dificult to corrode even if buried underground. Most of the times can be located with LRL

Gold,silver - Noble metals can stay in very good condition buried underground even 100´s of years. Allways located with LRL.

My theory,i think Franco Italy is right ,the underground Battery is what we are MEASURING...

[Morgan]

Well i think it´s time to go ahead and be positive Geo, you asked for this thread to be open , now asking to close it ...
Just let move on... Dont be childish...

Here more

[Max]

earth battery is an interesting theory, at least it's a scientific fact that these currents develop in earth

but I do not understand why gold must be buried for 50+ years in that case, if the battery works it works from start and no need of long time buried stuff in that case

I could understand that for other metals like copper or silver there's a need of time to develop compounds etc but with gold it isn't cause of chemical strong inertia of gold, so it's not clear for gold

anyway I don't understand when Damasio mix "electric field" with "magnetic field" --> static electric field does not induce magnetic field, but just moving carriers (electrons or ions) can create magnetic field; maybe he meant "electric potential difference" (voltage) that induce currents in a circuit (e.g. underground earth currents) and thus a magnetic field, that way make sense

I have to say that rf waves propagation in matter could have changes due to static of slowly variable magnetic fields, thus if field is strong enough (earth currents strong enough) that could explain also an electromagnetic anomaly in proximity of the buried target, cause we have a passive lf receiver in PD, and can sense JUST rf waves in lf range not static fields

regards
Max

[epitopios]

just another opinion !!!
I read this post for enough time now and I read about :
Gold frequency
NMR
VLF - LF Frequencies
ferrows and non-ferrows
ion detector
electrostatic detector
and of course the phenomenon
and thousands more ....!!!
until now i hear nothing about Electron plasma density to check out
someone will give an answer to this conundrum one ??
friendly , epitopios
and... regards

[Fred]

Thanks Morgan !
That is really interesting, at least we can see on what their design was based on- even if there are strange affirmations, like magnetism around non-magnetic metals, but i need to read it more carefully.
I can try to translate at least part of it over the week-end if it seems useful.
At least you really contributed to understand what it is all about.
Cheers !

Fred.

[J_Player]

Thanks Morgan !
That is really interesting, at least we can see on what their design was based on- even if there are strange affirmations, like magnetism around non-magnetic metals, but i need to read it more carefully.
I can try to translate at least part of it over the week-end if it seems useful.
At least you really contributed to understand what it is all about.
Cheers !

Fred.

Thank you Fred,
I see a couple of fatal errors in his explanations. But I will wait for your translation so I can be sure I am reading this correctly. From what I can see so far, it appears he tried to formulate a theory to explain how buried metal could send a signal that is detectable at a distance. Maybe his theory made sense to him, but it looks like I am reading some elements of this theory which violate well-known basic principles of physics.


Best wishes,
J_P

[Morgan]

LRL Damasio´s book

Thank you Fred,
I see a couple of fatal errors in his explanations. But I will wait for your translation so I can be sure I am reading this correctly. From what I can see so far, it appears he tried to formulate a theory to explain how buried metal could send a signal that is detectable at a distance. Maybe his theory made sense to him, but it looks like I am reading some elements of this theory which violate well-known basic principles of physics.


Best wishes,
J_P

I think Hung have the same book in english...

Maybe he want to make a favor to us? He can put page pictures here.

[J_Player]

I think Hung have the same book in english...

Maybe he want to make a favor to us? He can put page pictures here.

Mineoro literature is known to have grammar errors in Portuguese as well as in the translations they make to English.
Maybe it is good to have an engineer who speaks native Portuguese to check any translations to be the correct meanings.


Thank you Morgan,
J_P

[Max]

Mineoro literature is known to have grammar errors in Portuguese as well as in the translations they make to English.
Maybe it is good to have an engineer who speaks native Portuguese to check any translations to be the correct meanings.


Thank you Morgan,
J_P

I can read it, though not in every detail and I found that some details are wrong like in the case of the electric field that generates a magnetic field, but I think it's due to the lack of terminology and misuse of it than a mistake : as explained I think that he wanna say "electric potential" (that's always a relative thing...) but he used "electric field"

the two concepts are really different in physics but in common terminology could happen that there's a misuse of one definition instead using the other one... also we don't know if the book was written by Damasio himself or by someone else using directives of Damasio, and we all know that when using e.g. "writers" to write technical reports or manuals the mistakes and misuse of terms could be heavy and frequent also

it's the price so often people pay for readability of a paper/article: to keep stuff simple and well understandable by common people it's frequent that many details are avoided and explaination will depicts a situation that's slightly different from reality

Anyway, it's clear the "phenomenon" described has both electric and magnetic effects, and so different detection strategies are possible, e.g. just electrical (like zahori) , just magnetical so thing that reminds me the "compass" mechanical device Esteban once wrote about, mixed so electromagnetic stuff e.g. RF or IR ... all that match Esteban's posts about LRLs: he always repeated many times that there are many different ways to catch this "phenomenon"

so I think Mineoro paper/manual matches totally the Esteban's descriptions of these devices and that these "errors" are maybe just a way to avoid too complicate arguments cause the stuff is intended for potential or already customers...

anyway I found that earth batteries concepts could have implications in this field and are real and measurable at least, but I don't know if detectable or not by PD

[Max]

What we are MEASURING ENRGY,ELECTROMAGNETIC FIELDS,IONS ???

UNDERGROUND METALS :

IRON - create rusty and decomposed after many years.Not located by LRL

Copper or Bronze - well conductive but uderground create verdigris(patina) this isolate the metal to transmit contact to the ground and produce the energy field. Sometimes can be located by LRL

Aluminium - dificult to corrode even if buried underground. Most of the times can be located with LRL

Gold,silver - Noble metals can stay in very good condition buried underground even 100´s of years. Allways located with LRL.

My theory,i think Franco Italy is right ,the underground Battery is what we are MEASURING...

[ATTACH]17356[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]17357[/ATTACH]

gold can stay very well for long long time BUT silver can develop thick patina and have big corrosion depending on soil, it usually appears dark like coal in mineralized and humus rich soil... in that cases the patina could be thick even 1/3 of a thick coin, bad story

in other cases , other kind of soil, can develop dark gray patina, not that thick and easy to remove with vaseline or heavy mineral oil or with other means

I saw one time 200 silver coins recovered from under the seashore and located with a pulse induction MD... bad stuff, all full of heavy and thick black patina, mostly corroded and you would not say these were coins... but these were coins, though very degradated ones

the silver patina is a good insulator so that not match gold behaviour that's very different, always clean, no rust or anything visible in even long time buried pieces apart, in some rare cases, redness at surface due to some reaction in mineral/volcanic soil BUT always very conductive even at surface

regards
Max

[J_Player]

...the two concepts are really different in physics but in common terminology could happen that there's a misuse of one definition instead using the other one... also we don't know if the book was written by Damasio himself or by someone else using directives of Damasio, and we all know that when using e.g. "writers" to write technical reports or manuals the mistakes and misuse of terms could be heavy and frequent also

it's the price so often people pay for readability of a paper/article: to keep stuff simple and well understandable by common people it's frequent that many details are avoided and explaination will depicts a situation that's slightly different from reality

so I think Mineoro paper/manual matches totally the Esteban's descriptions of these devices and that these "errors" are maybe just a way to avoid too complicate arguments cause the stuff is intended for potential or already customers...

Hi Max,
I see examples of printing incorrect information in text books to keep things simple and easy to understand.
You don't learn the real working of some technical things until you study advanced research.
Only reason - to keep things simple for classes that don't want to be confused with difficult explanations.

I have seen simplification like this in some of the Mineoro literature.
But I also see some plain grammar errors in the Mineoro Portuguese website.
People who speak Portuguese say it should be corrected to use more proper words and syntax.
Then when these pages are translated to English, it is easy to translate a slightly changed meaning, which makes a big difference when you want to know if he is talking about static fields or dynamic fields.

More important than grammar and intentional simplifications, I have read some things published by Mineoro which are plain wrong, and can be proved to be wrong...
ie: gold ions rising into the air from the ground is not true.
This is not an observation Damasio and Alonso made.
I checked with Esteban and he told me how they proved ions rise into the air.
He said they took their detector and found some beeping from a long time buried gold jewelry.
Then they surveyed around everywhere near the location from every angle and they found it makes stronger beeps at north and weaker beeps at east-west.
So they draw the ellipse picture.
Then they put a chair next to the location and stand above with the locator to see when beeping stops. They measure 7.2 feet.

What they observe is detection distance from different angles.
Same as if you test with PI detector to see what directions you can find different distances.
They did not observe ions, only detection distances.
Damasio substituted his observation of detection distances for facts of ions rising into air.
True fact is he observed beeping, in the air, not ions in the air.
But they publish "FACTS" that gold ions rise into the air 7.2 feet and move to the north.

Now, we wonder how many other "FACTS" of science Damasio and Alonso learned using this scientific method to mix their conclusions as if they are the same as things they observed?
This is NOT a scientific method.
It is a method to manufacture pseudoscience.
I see often Esteban make this same mistake for many "FACTS" which he post in the forum -- things like acoustic vibrations of buried gold, IR detection principles, etc.
When I ask him how he knows he made the correct conclusion, he said he assumes he is correct.
But I see he never made any tests to check if he made correct conclusions or not.
He simply thinks his locator works so this proves all Damasio and Alonso theories are correct.
Have you considered that Damasio and Alonso don't know what they are detecting?
Maybe they made a load of pseudoscience to describe their beeping because they do not have enough scientific education to discover the real principle that caused the beeping?
This is what I believe.

This is why I think it is a good Idea for a real engineer who speaks native Portuguese to translate what Damasio published so we can decide for ourselves if he was simply trying to keep things simple, or if he is publishing pseudoscience of false conclusions he mixed in with some well-known principles of physics.


Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

First part of translation: i tried to be fairly literal, not to distort too much the original meaning.Anyone,welcome to correct it into good English :

************************************************** *******************

Experiments with gold and silver

To experiment with gold and silver, you will need smooth plates of mentioned sizes.When the target under test will be in air, or recently buried, it is the surface, the size sof the object that matters.In other words, the detector sees the plate as a reflecting mirror.
However when buried for more than 50 years, the instrument, by its detecting properties, sees not only the target, but mainly the electromagnetic field that is very often bigger than the target.
Growing up : for the detector, it is as if the target, with the electromagnetic field, had grown up, had been augmented.See the related experiments, real sizes of objects and how the instrument has SEEN them: way larger.

Gold, silver, copper, aluminium, regular iron:
Is there any difference between those metals ?
The behaviour of those metals in air or recently burried is the same.You will see no difference, their electromagnetic field is identical.
So in practice, what difference exists?
I mineralogy, in the study o metals, the representatives is copper, and noble metals gold and silver. All of them have metallic connexion, made by the centre of their atoms, that are linked between them by a kind of atomic cloud, in which the electrons can travel freely.
Any metal buried and submitted during many years (more than 50) to the action of moisture, earth magnetism , telluric current and radiations, will develop electrical or magnetic properties, that will differentiate it from the surrounding material, in such a way that either magnetic, diamagnetic or paramagnetic substances creates electrical fields.
The more ferrous metals will progressively decompose into the ground, and will not create great magnetic nor electromagnetic fields..Some iron items, buried 50 years ago are gone into dust. Recently archaeological researches made in France, in cities that disappeared 550 or 770 years ago, prove this affirmation.
Now the gold, silver and copper, being inalterable, creates an intense electromagnetic field allowing an easy detection.
Obs: Copper, for its molecular and atomic decay, is in a slightly inferior level of gold and silver

************************************************** ****************

[Fred]

************************************************** ******************
Underground phenomenon:
The Earth is a great magnet.If we break a magnet into small pieces, instead on one big magnet we will get several small magnets.
The smaller strength of those small magnets will be in the same magnitude of their number in relation to the big magnet.
When an object is placed into the ground, buried , an electrical field build up around it which strength will be proportional the the number of years it ha been buried..
The Mineoro being an electric filed detector,it will easily locate those fields, those being originated by ground or man made

A metal recently buried will have no electric field.The detector will only detect the object.
However when this object will have been buried for many years, it will have created around it a strong electrical field that will be detected.
Thanks to this physical phenomenon it is possible to detect the presence of objects at a distance that varies from 140 meters in front, to 140 meters on each side of the detector, depending of the acquired detector.
Obs: the long range detection is only possible for objects buried for more than 50 years, and if they are made of gold, silver and copper.

(....)
For immediate testing, plates or boxes of copper,(flander?), zinc or black plate in the sizes of 30X30, 40X40, 50X50 cm.They must be smooth surface , in one piece and buried in horizontal position.
Many researchers , forgetting the range of their detector, ask too much form it and make the mistake of burry small items, that beside of not having smooth surfaces, have no

************************************************** ***************
Can´t see anything after page 3 ?

[Morgan]

************************************************** ******************
Underground phenomenon:
The Earth is a great magnet.If we break a magnet into small pieces, instead on one big magnet we will get several small magnets.
The smaller strength of those small magnets will be in the same magnitude of their number in relation to the big magnet.
When an object is placed into the ground, buried , an electrical field build up around it which strength will be proportional the the number of years it ha been buried..
The Mineoro being an electric filed detector,it will easily locate those fields, those being originated by ground or man made

A metal recently buried will have no electric field.The detector will only detect the object.
However when this object will have been buried for many years, it will have created around it a strong electrical field that will be detected.
Thanks to this physical phenomenon it is possible to detect the presence of objects at a distance that varies from 140 meters in front, to 140 meters on each side of the detector, depending of the acquired detector.
Obs: the long range detection is only possible for objects buried for more than 50 years, and if they are made of gold, silver and copper.

(....)
For immediate testing, plates or boxes of copper,(flander?), zinc or black plate in the sizes of 30X30, 40X40, 50X50 cm.They must be smooth surface , in one piece and buried in horizontal position.
Many researchers , forgetting the range of their detector, ask too much form it and make the mistake of burry small items, that beside of not having smooth surfaces, have no

************************************************** ***************
Can´t see anything after page 3 ?

i will make a scan of all pages and put here.

[J_Player]

i will make a scan of all pages and put here.

Hi Morgan,
A zip file with all pages will be good. Then we can download the zip and read the pages, so not many pages of images in the thread.

Thank you for helping to show the pages of the Damasio book.
J_P