Testing PDK 2 In UK

[Morgan]

Hi Morgan.
Last days i experiment with transmitting VHF signals by the sweep method. I transmmit the signals continuesly 1 week but i have not good results. I have some strong magnetic fields 3..4 hours every day and nothing else. Maybe we must use vlf frequences. So from next week i will try to modulate the VHF signals with 500 ... 1000 Hz and to repeat the experiment
We see.....

Thanks for this VHF experiments,i built two VHF transmitters and one of them stay two days near the buried target and no results .
Now i´m working in PDK-2 modifications,this device must be completly independent of any VHF.

[Morgan]

Hi Morgan.
Last days i experiment with transmitting VHF signals by the sweep method. I transmmit the signals continuesly 1 week but i have not good results. I have some strong magnetic fields 3..4 hours every day and nothing else. Maybe we must use vlf frequences. So from next week i will try to modulate the VHF signals with 500 ... 1000 Hz and to repeat the experiment
We see.....

here is one picture by Hummmhummm,explaining (just theory) how electromagnetic waves and Passive Receiver works :

[ercan]

VHF radio signals can not handle more than under the ground, the ground will make the reflection.
GPR antennas so you can work close to the ground.

[MIJ]

Hi MIJ.
At your video (first) i see at 17, 34 and 37sec that the PDK beeps near to tree and not at line with the gold ring. Can you tell me if at this direction there is any coin from the other two??

Regards

Well spotted Geo,

The silver hammered cut coin is about 3 ft away to the right the PDK is probably picking up signal from coin also.

[humhum]

VHF radio signals can not handle more than under the ground, the ground will make the reflection.
GPR antennas so you can work close to the ground.

Ercan_usta , Do you know VHF waves and this theory how works???? maybe you build your LRL or PD .

[ercan]

VHF waves, only works for GPR s.

[J_Player]

Ercan_usta , Do you know VHF waves and this theory how works???? maybe you build your LRL or PD .

This raises an interesting question about VLF:

According to contemporary LRL theories, there are four alleged mechanisms by which VHF waves work to detect buried treasure:
1. VHF travels through the air, then penetrates the ground and reflects back to create an anomaly in the reception when it encounters buried metal things.
2. VHF travels through the air, but does not penetrate the ground. As the VHF waves travel through the air, parallel to the ground, they travel uniformly because the ground is uniform soil at a given location. But when metal things are buried a long time, then the soil above the buried metal will not have the same electrical properties as the surrounding soil. This anomaly in the soil causes any VHF waves passing by to show an anomaly in the reception to anyone who has a VHF receiver tuning the waves when they are walking close to the soil surface where there buried metal below.
3. Buried metal causes metal ions to rise up through the soil and travel into the air. These ions hover in an elliptical column 2 meters tall in the air above the buried treasure. Any VHF or other RF frequencies, or even near infrared light passing at this column of hovering metal ions, will surely be detectable by someone who takes a receiver to the location where the treasure is buried.
4. An alternate method used by some LRL manufacturers is to place a small transmitter near the treasure, which can be detected by a receiver to help locate where the treasure is buried (or possibly not buried, if the transmitter is hidden near an empty hole).

But which of the 4 contemporary LRL theories above work?
Theory-1: No. Anyone who has any education in RF propagation, knows that VHF does not penetrate the ground except for very dry ground for a very short distance, much less than treasures are buried. This means that according to the properties of RF propagation, theory-1 cannot work, because VHF cannot travel through the ground more than a few millimeters.

Theory-2: ?? When VHF waves travel across the ground in a horizontal direction, they have a polarization which is determined because of the relative conductivity of the ground. VHF waves are usually intentionally polarized when they are broadcast from the transmitter, as well. If buried metal actually does cause an anomaly to the electrical properties at the surface of the ground, then possibly it could cause an anomaly to the polarized VHF reception of waves which pass the anomaly on ground surface. However, the anomaly would need to be noticeably different from the surrounding ground. ie: You would be able to measure the difference in the electrical properties such as conductivity, or current flow, or variation in charge with simple instruments. Maybe nobody has done this at a location where metal is known to be buried for a long time. At least I have not seen reports where people showed electrical measurements they made at ground with buried treasure under it.

Without any test data, we could presume the ground has an insignificant electrical anomaly, and could not possibly show a VHF variation in reception.
But would we be correct?
I think we cannot know if there is an electrical anomaly, or how strong the alleged electrical anomaly is unless we first collect some data measuring things such as ground resistivity, possible natural current flow, possible surface charge which is different from the charge at surrounding areas of the ground. This kind of data is sometimes seen on treasure hunts where ground resistivity is used to locate things. But I have not seen data from a test garden where we have known targets that we can check VLF reception at the ground locations where we measured the electrical properties.

What we can say, is that if we were to place a metal plate 20 cm diameter down flat on neutral ground which has no treasure buried under it, then we would have a part of the ground surface which has very high conductivity of metal compared to the surrounding ground.
This metal plate on the ground could serve to show how detectable a conductive area at the surface can be when using a VHF receiver to locate the plate on the surface.
It would show us what would happen in the case when the soil has become extremely low resistivity, more than we would find from a small electrical change due to metal leaching into the ground.
I have a feeling we will find that even a metal plate is not very detectable.
But I could be wrong.
Maybe the ground surface electrical anomalies are detectable when using a receiver to detect VHF?

Theory-3: No. It is easy to prove there is not a column of metal ions hovering in the air above buried metals. Simply use a drift tube to draw in an air sample, and you will see there is no reading of any ions from the buried metal. The ions you will find are the same ions you find in the surrounding areas, which randomly blow with the breeze. Scientists have already performed this test in many locations, and have found airborne gold ions are measured in extremely small concentrations (parts per trillion), and they are uniformly scattered through the air. They found no higher concentrations where there were known areas of buried gold, such as mines where gold is buried, as well as kept dissolved in chemical solutions during the extraction process.

Theory-4: Yes. VHF receivers have been proven to respond to hidden VHF transmitters.
To further illustrate the proof, there are radio enthusiasts who go on "fox hunt" contests where the "fox" is a hidden transmitter.
All the contestants try to find the hidden transmitter when using their VHF receivers to locate it http://www.homingin.com/. Whoever finds the transmitter first wins the contest.
Surprisingly, one frequency that is often used is the 2-meter band, which is what we would call VHF.
The only problem with this theory for treasure hunting is you must first know the location of the treasure before you put the transmitter next to it.
This problem makes it useless for showing you were treasure is buried unless you already know where it is buried.


Best Wishes,
J_P

[Morgan]

This raises an interesting question about VLF:

According to contemporary LRL theories, there are four alleged mechanisms by which VHF waves work to detect buried treasure:
1. VHF travels through the air, then penetrates the ground and reflects back to create an anomaly in the reception when it encounters buried metal things.
2. VHF travels through the air, but does not penetrate the ground. As the VHF waves travel through the air, parallel to the ground, they travel uniformly because the ground is uniform soil at a given location. But when metal things are buried a long time, then the soil above the buried metal will not have the same electrical properties as the surrounding soil. This anomaly in the soil causes any VHF waves passing by to show an anomaly in the reception to anyone who has a VHF receiver tuning the waves when they are walking close to the soil surface where there buried metal below.
3. Buried metal causes metal ions to rise up through the soil and travel into the air. These ions hover in an elliptical column 2 meters tall in the air above the buried treasure. Any VHF or other RF frequencies, or even near infrared light passing at this column of hovering metal ions, will surely be detectable by someone who takes a receiver to the location where the treasure is buried.
4. An alternate method used by some LRL manufacturers is to place a small transmitter near the treasure, which can be detected by a receiver to help locate where the treasure is buried (or possibly not buried, if the transmitter is hidden near an empty hole).

But which of the 4 contemporary LRL theories above work?
Theory-1: No. Anyone who has any education in RF propagation, knows that VHF does not penetrate the ground except for very dry ground for a very short distance, much less than treasures are buried. This means that according to the properties of RF propagation, theory-1 cannot work, because VHF cannot travel through the ground more than a few millimeters.

Theory-2: ?? When VHF waves travel across the ground in a horizontal direction, they have a polarization which is determined because of the relative conductivity of the ground. VHF waves are usually intentionally polarized when they are broadcast from the transmitter, as well. If buried metal actually does cause an anomaly to the electrical properties at the surface of the ground, then possibly it could cause an anomaly to the polarized VHF reception of waves which pass the anomaly on ground surface. However, the anomaly would need to be noticeably different from the surrounding ground. ie: You would be able to measure the difference in the electrical properties such as conductivity, or current flow, or variation in charge with simple instruments. Maybe nobody has done this at a location where metal is known to be buried for a long time. At least I have not seen reports where people showed electrical measurements they made at ground with buried treasure under it.

Without any test data, we could presume the ground has an insignificant electrical anomaly, and could not possibly show a VHF variation in reception.
But would we be correct?
I think we cannot know if there is an electrical anomaly, or how strong the alleged electrical anomaly is unless we first collect some data measuring things such as ground resistivity, possible natural current flow, possible surface charge which is different from the charge at surrounding areas of the ground. This kind of data is sometimes seen on treasure hunts where ground resistivity is used to locate things. But I have not seen data from a test garden where we have known targets that we can check VLF reception at the ground locations where we measured the electrical properties.

What we can say, is that if we were to place a metal plate 20 cm diameter down flat on neutral ground which has no treasure buried under it, then we would have a part of the ground surface which has very high conductivity of metal compared to the surrounding ground.
This metal plate on the ground could serve to show how detectable a conductive area at the surface can be when using a VHF receiver to locate the plate on the surface.
It would show us what would happen in the case when the soil has become extremely low resistivity, more than we would find from a small electrical change due to metal leaching into the ground.
I have a feeling we will find that even a metal plate is not very detectable.
But I could be wrong.
Maybe the ground surface electrical anomalies are detectable when using a receiver to detect VHF?

Theory-3: No. It is easy to prove there is not a column of metal ions hovering in the air above buried metals. Simply use a drift tube to draw in an air sample, and you will see there is no reading of any ions from the buried metal. The ions you will find are the same ions you find in the surrounding areas, which randomly blow with the breeze. Scientists have already performed this test in many locations, and have found airborne gold ions are measured in extremely small concentrations (parts per trillion), and they are uniformly scattered through the air. They found no higher concentrations where there were known areas of buried gold, such as mines where gold is buried, as well as kept dissolved in chemical solutions during the extraction process.

Theory-4: Yes. VHF receivers have been proven to respond to hidden VHF transmitters.
To further illustrate the proof, there are radio enthusiasts who go on "fox hunt" contests where the "fox" is a hidden transmitter.
All the contestants try to find the hidden transmitter when using their VHF receivers to locate it http://www.homingin.com/. Whoever finds the transmitter first wins the contest.
Surprisingly, one frequency that is often used is the 2-meter band, which is what we would call VHF.
The only problem with this theory for treasure hunting is you must first know the location of the treasure before you put the transmitter next to it.
This problem makes it useless for showing you were treasure is buried unless you already know where it is buried.


Best Wishes,
J_P

Thanks J_P

very interesting ...

[J_Player]

Thanks J_P

very interesting ...

Another interesting tidbit about VHF broadcasting stations...
VHF is broadcast from TV stations using analog signals as well as FM radio stations.
But it is also broadcast by amateur radio hobbyists and from marine radios.
Many of these broadcasting stations are directional because they want to focus their broadcast in a particular direction.
TV stations and FM radio stations will often use a grid of antennas which cause their signal to be strongest in locations where there is a large, and dense population of listeners who will hear their advertising.
They usually arrange the antennas to focus their broadcasting in the high population areas, but do not send a strong signal to places where there are not many people to listen.

This means that if you are relying on a VHF signal which some station is broadcasting, you are likely to find only weak TV station signal or FM radio signal when you are away from the population centers and in a remote treasure hunting field.
Amateur radio hobbyists usually send their VHF signals directional beams, but not always.
And the marine radio broadcasts are usually omnidirectional, so the signal will be heard equally in all directions.

The strength of VHF signals at will change a lot as you move to different locations.
Same as you see the TV signal strength changes when you take a portable TV or FM radio to various locations.

I still haven't seen any clear indications that VHF is needed for treasure hunting.
I hear only reports of circumstantial evidence, how some LRLs stopped working to their full capacity at the same time when some TV stations changed their transmitters.
Still, the information above may be helpful to those who want to experiment.

Best Wishes,
J_P

[nelson]

I have this trasmitter that i think it may help to increase the range of pdk on the field.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/15W-ST-15B-FM-stereo-PLL-broadcast-transmitter-Wholesale-DHL-free-shipping-/220936627887?pt=US_Ham_Radio_Transmitters&hash=item3370d966af

This transmitter has 15 watts of rf output, but if you get a high gain antenna you can multiply the transmitter power by 2, 4, 6 or more watts depending on your antenna gain and if is omnidirectional, bidirectional or directional. Also the polarizationof the antena es very important. Has a ham we use to work on VHF vertical polarization and FM and TV broadcasting stations has horizontal polarization.
Also we must know that FM bradcasting stations have a bandwith of 100 Khz, but ham VHF radios has only 10 Khz. TV stations has a wider bandwith than FM stations.
In the past i have done a few experiments on VHF like contacts with yagi antenas oriented directly to the stations i want to contact, were both signals RX and TX were recibed with low signal. THen we try to find a skip on a hill that was not on the sight line between both stations. This hill was 45 degrees away from our line of contact. Then our contact was solid and strong with maximun signal.
This probe that VHF signals we reflected on the hill and forward to the RX stations and vice versa.
I hope this can help to understand our investigatios about gold and silver detection.

Regards

Nelson

Another interesting tidbit about VHF broadcasting stations...
VHF is broadcast from TV stations using analog signals as well as FM radio stations.
But it is also broadcast by amateur radio hobbyists and from marine radios.
Many of these broadcasting stations are directional because they want to focus their broadcast in a particular direction.
TV stations and FM radio stations will often use a grid of antennas which cause their signal to be strongest in locations where there is a large, and dense population of listeners who will hear their advertising.
They usually arrange the antennas to focus their broadcasting in the high population areas, but do not send a strong signal to places where there are not many people to listen.

This means that if you are relying on a VHF signal which some station is broadcasting, you are likely to find only weak TV station signal or FM radio signal when you are away from the population centers and in a remote treasure hunting field.
Amateur radio hobbyists usually send their VHF signals directional beams, but not always.
And the marine radio broadcasts are usually omnidirectional, so the signal will be heard equally in all directions.

The strength of VHF signals at will change a lot as you move to different locations.
Same as you see the TV signal strength changes when you take a portable TV or FM radio to various locations.

I still haven't seen any clear indications that VHF is needed for treasure hunting.
I hear only reports of circumstantial evidence, how some LRLs stopped working to their full capacity at the same time when some TV stations changed their transmitters.
Still, the information above may be helpful to those who want to experiment.

Best Wishes,
J_P

[Morgan]

PDK-2.2

Ercan_usta , Do you know VHF waves and this theory how works???? maybe you build your LRL or PD .

Great news of a gold find in Greece using one PROTOTYPE of PDK,model that working without VHF waves.

The person who found the object is one forum member,if he want to talk about,he can talk,for the moment I dont say his name.
this is not PDK propaganda,this is all the true about LRL´s that work as LRL´s

here the message :



im take it today the pdk and about half hour later!!!!!!!!!......................
when im searching my yard im locate a peice of GOLD chain about 9 cm long.
5 meters distance and 60 cm depth
i dont believe it how strong it is

thank you for your constraction and if you want anything else to can i test just told me

best regards

[Morgan]

PDK-2.2

Great news of a gold find in Greece using one PROTOTYPE of PDK,model that working without VHF waves.

The person who found the object is one forum member,if he want to talk about,he can talk,for the moment I dont say his name.
this is not PDK propaganda,this is all the true about LRL´s that work as LRL´s

here the message :



im take it today the pdk and about half hour later!!!!!!!!!......................
when im searching my yard im locate a peice of GOLD chain about 9 cm long.
5 meters distance and 60 cm depth
i dont believe it how strong it is

thank you for your constraction and if you want anything else to can i test just told me

best regards

This is the model who recently found the gold,in Greece,i make it very sensitive to the point that is possible to locate GOLD in front of the RX coil,the calibration is very tricky but it seems the PDK owner learn very fast :

[Morgan]

PINPOINT the GOLD

Great news of a gold find in Greece using one PROTOTYPE of PDK,model that working without VHF waves.

The person who found the object is one forum member,if he want to talk about,he can talk,for the moment I dont say his name.
this is not PDK propaganda,this is all the true about LRL´s that work as LRL´s

here the message :



im take it today the pdk and about half hour later!!!!!!!!!......................
when im searching my yard im locate a peice of GOLD chain about 9 cm long.
5 meters distance and 60 cm depth
i dont believe it how strong it is

thank you for your constraction and if you want anything else to can i test just told me

best regards

I analize the message,i supose he locate ,triangulate the mark area where the PDK give the signals and ,there is no PI metal detector in the world that can locate a gold chain at 60 cm,so i supose he dig a lot of ground before get the GOLD...

before sold the PDK-2.2 ,all the field tests here was good,only the calibration was trick,anyway I sold the prototype,now is time to build one for me...

[Morgan]

I analize the message,i supose he locate ,triangulate the mark area where the PDK give the signals and ,there is no PI metal detector in the world that can locate a gold chain at 60 cm,so i supose he dig a lot of ground before get the GOLD...

before sold the PDK-2.2 ,all the field tests here was good,only the calibration was trick,anyway I sold the prototype,now is time to build one for me...

I have some videos with the field test,if qiaohzy want to put them here,i will send to him.

[robalocarapanda]

congratulations

congratulation morgan with my pdk.2 i find a silver ring in mexico the equipment is very sensitive and i think you are very I think you're very lucky to have gotten it to work without the help of vhf waves which are somewhat capricious some time the waves come and another don¨t.

best regards