CRYPTON MINI

[J_Player]

Hi j_p

J_P would you trust Morgan if he test it that it works at least where he lives if his test was a success?
Yes, I believe that Morgan always makes true and accurate reports for the equipment he tests.

> We know he is convinced by many tests and technical improvements that his Crypton works

Of course he's conviced otherwise why should he built up his whole life around this project?
Wrong!
He did not devote his whole life to this project.
He worked for a number of companies before Crypton.
We only know he is dedicated to his projects.
We do not know he is convinced by many tests, or that many tests were even made for the Mini.
This is only speculation with no supporting evidence.
My guess is they probably made some tests, and technical improvements, but I don't know any facts about that.

> Mineoro also publishes a 1 year warranty for their long range locators.

There's a difference 1 year warranty and money back if not working or unsatisfied.
OK, so far Andreas doesn't have this but it would be no problem because if his Mini-LRL really works he can resell the returned units after refurbishing or function quality check.
I do not think it is proper to speak of what changed customer policies the Crypton company will be willing to make unless you are owner of the Crypton company.
Anybody can visit the Crypton website to read what their actual policy is.
My comment was about Mineoro, not Crypton.
The difference is Mineoro is run by people who are known fraudsters, and they have a history of not answering emails from their customers.
Alonso, who is known as the person who is responsible for their LRL production was caught stealing gold from one of the customers, and planting a transmitter to cause LRLs to make fake beeps.
I don't care if they have no warrantee, 1 year warrantee, or money back warrantee... Why should I trust their warrantee?
Warrantee from other international companies is only taking your chances.
I believe in the track records that I see from companies.

> No, I would not buy a Crypton Mini if I get a money-back warantee.

OK, you may lose some postage and bank-transfer money but what's the big problem if you could test the Crypton Mini where you living and if it doesn't work or doesn't work good enough for ya send it back? Whats the big deal? Personally I would be very happy if a company offers such service because it shows that it really cares about the needs of the customers.
btw. for LRLs this is a MUST! Because the whole LRL reseller-scene is infested by 95% of evil betrayers that are dealing with illusional
dream-products (or better: nightmare-products!)
Whats the big deal?
The big deal is I am not interested in owning a locator which works on the principle of the Crypton Mini.
My only interest is to see how it responds to various buried targets.
I prefer to wait until I can read some field reports than to spend 560 € for a machine I might play with for a few months, then quickly lose interest in.
But if I did want to own a Mini, I still would not order one until I first test it with my own hands to see if I think it will help me to find treasure.
This is the same method I use to buy all my treasure hunting electronics, and I have never found bad results with my purchases.

Another question is:
Is a detector that has 10m max. distance already LRL?
Because I can search a 10 x 10m field within a few minutes with the Jeohunter so perhaps the next version of the Crypton Mini at least should have a distance of 30 meters for large objects.
I have no idea what the response of a Crypton Mini is like, and I don't expect anyone will know until we see some field reports from people who use it.

But if we talk about a hypothetical machine instead of a Crypton Mini, then we can make a hypothetical answer:
I think that if you have a machine which always locates the approximate location of non-ferrous buried metal within a meter radius without finding every piece of trash, and it does this from 10 meters distance, then this machine can help you find treasure in most treasure hunting scenarios.
In cases where you are only searching a field 10 x 10m, then I would not waste my time with such a machine.
I would use a metal detector that is best suited to the kind of treasure you are searching for.
For a 10 x 10 m search field, if the 30 ft detector could locate buried metals deeper than your metal detector, then I would use it for this small field.
But the recoveries I see in most of the Morgan videos and Greek videos are from less depth, only metal detector depth.


Best Wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

@ Geo
Why don't you test the Crypton Mini for us? We know you as good
electronic engineer / tinkerer and scientifical working person.
Do you have a dispute with Andreas or other problems that will
hinder you from this? And for Morgan now 560 Euro also just is
peanuts after he can became rich with his PDK3 so its no big
deal to buy one and test it in Portugal.

The more reliable test-results the better - for all of us!

As many members knows, my relations with Andreas are not good.

[Funfinder]

@ Geo
It would be very good if you and Andreas could forget about your
hostility for a short time so we can get forward with our LRL problems, thx.





@ J_P
>Yes, I believe that Morgan always makes true and accurate reports for the equipment he tests.
But does this also means you "believe" the equipment he tests is real useful for the task area it was created?!


The difference is Mineoro is run by people who are known fraudsters, and they have a history of not answering emails from their customers.
Alonso, who is known as the person who is responsible for their LRL production was caught stealing gold from one of the customers, and planting a transmitter to cause LRLs to make fake beeps.
I don't care if they have no warrantee, 1 year warrantee, or money back warrantee... Why should I trust their warrantee?
Warrantee from other international companies is only taking your chances.
I believe in the track records that I see from companies.

1. You know the PDK circuit Morgan, Geo and perhaps even Andreas (years ago) have used for experimenting has something to do with the Mineoro history?

2. If you would get from a big company like Sony or Philips a full money back warranty if you are not satisfied enough with the newest blu-ray player of course you would have no problem with it to buy and test it.
So the problem for you may be only is that it would be a foreign country and a small company. So whats wrong if Crypton would give such a warranty for full satisfied customers and for building up trust in the provided technology?



The big deal is I am not interested in owning a locator which works on the principle of the Crypton Mini.
My only interest is to see how it responds to various buried targets.

OK, so you just want to see how it responds...
It's almost like:
"I like cars but even if I could have a Ferrari to test it I wouldn't want it, I only wanna see how fast it can accelerate from 0 to 100"

You like treasure-hunting but you are not interested in having
personally a working (lets assume it really works) LRL and you
are not even interested in testing this device by yourself?

So what are you looking for here in this thread?
For some simple videos you can critizise and expose as fakes or fraud trial?

Someone should force you to test this device under all circumstances so you may change your mind when you are in real contact and not just by some kind of digital information crap!

Nothing against your method, in alot cases it works to collect a huge
amount of information, trying to watch behind the curtain, not believing all that blandish and seductive commercial propaganda!

but not always:
A person can have a 100% good reputation as ebay seller an still
all what is there to see is a big fake and fraud to rip off people.

I still would not order one until I first test it with my own hands to see if I think it will help me to find treasure. .

Well in that case I guess you will have to wait for a long time - until someone near you living may get one.

So why bother yourself with this Crypton Mini topic?


My guess is they probably made some tests, and technical improvements, but I don't know any facts about that.

as far i know the development of the Crypton devices
(OBMD-1) started already 2-3 years ago until now the final
products are available.


btw. how someone should test such a device on a real "scientific level" at all if it just reacts on long time ago buried objects?
Such objects can't be buried and dig up any time someone like to make some test-sessions.

Assuming this detector points to some location or direction 10m away. As we know already those devices have detection problems
if coming close to the find so we may get a potential search field
of 3x3 meters (10'x10'). But this area in many places already is
huge enough that there is a find just simply by chance!

If the metal detector finds nothing it was an error of the LRL,
but if the metal detector finds something there this doesn't
mean it was indeed located by the LRL because perhaps the
find was there just simple by chance!

OK, with a find that is made out of gold this risk could be reduced
because such finds are much more rare, but it also could take a
very long time or trial period until someone finds such a small
region that contains gold, especially if the LRL just reaches 10meters distance.

So probably you couldn't test it at all until you have a well documented test-area with buried non-iron objects from 10-20 years ago?

No wait, the Crypton Mini is full reliable testable by the following method:

1. looking for a site that only contains a few finds each 10-15meters like the outskirts of an old battlefield.

2. analysing how many trys resulting in a real find (leadball etc.)

3. the more such tries the more accurate the test will be, minimum 20 tries are needed and over 50% have to be successful


Only such a method would be able to exclude finds by pure coincidence that suggest the LRL has detected something.

Another method needs 2 persons:
Without leting the second person with the LRL knowing it, person 1
has to checkout the minimum 25x25m testfield with an usual MD
how many and where are the potential finds are located.
The best would be if there is just 1 (For the Crypton noniron) buried
object. Next the LRL user has to start from the center of this area
and person 2 can check out if his device really points into the
correct direction or finds the area around where this find is located.
(this second method only works if the MDs radiation doesn't
destroys the needed LRL-EM-field-structure).


He did not devote his whole life to this project.
OK, perhaps not his whole life, but his life since a few years.
I just wanna make clear that Andreas for shure is not that crazy
to built up such a relative large project just to fool people.
Especially not in Greece where treasure-hunting is a much more
risky topic than in other countries.

J_P You addressed another important topic regarding the
LRLs detection depth.
If the LRL locates a coin at perhaps 2feet (65cm) and the
co-used metal-detector can't detect this coin by usual sweeping
the ground the culprit would be the LRL.

So how to solve this problem?

For a real convincing testing of the Crypton Mini a Mini-Excavator
must be used that removes the ground from the whole detected
area! Perhaps 2x2 meters in lenght and 1m deep.
Next the whole excavation material must be searched thoroughly
and the new ground level too, with the metal detector.
This will destroy the LRL detection field of course but it would
give some kind of proof how reliable this detector really works,
especially after alot such same tests.

I think it is possible to estimate how deep the Crypton Mini
is able to detect a find with a certain size.
I'm shure a small object has also be closer to the surface so
it is still possible to LRL detect it, comparable with the usual
metal-detectors abilities.

But it would be good to know the approximatly depth
to avoid digging extremly large holes for nothing.


So we see, even if we would have personally the Crypton Mini
in our hands to test this is still a demanding task to get real
scientifical worthful or in other words reliable test results.

And I doubt the testvideos we may get in the next time are
based on this real meaningful methods!

But perhaps first someone really has to pay a price until he gets
a real working LRL device. Morgan and Geo also paid alot first.


Or do exist any doubts their PDKs etc. doesn't work at all ????
And all what they have is just a big self-deception by wrongly made or interpreted
testresults and assumptions or conclusions ?????

No risk, no fun...


greetings

[Qiaozhi]

He did not devote his whole life to this project.
OK, perhaps not his whole life, but his life since a few years.
I just wanna make clear that Andreas for shure is not that crazy
to built up such a relative large project just to fool people.
Especially not in Greece where treasure-hunting is a much more
risky topic than in other countries.

I could be wrong, but I suspect you'll find that he's simply fulfilling a need in the market, especially in Greece where many people are becoming desperate.

[J_Player]

>Yes, I believe that Morgan always makes true and accurate reports for the equipment he tests.
But does this also means you "believe" the equipment he tests is real useful for the task area it was created?!
In case you are not aware, Morgan tests a lot of treasure hunting equipment, from metal detectors, LRLs, magnetometers, even swiveling locators in various field conditions to see what conditions they work best.
This is the only way you will know for certain what a machine is good for a particular task.
Some of the tests he makes show there are companies that consistently make equipment which is overpriced crap.
For example, the salesmen at the OKM factory tried several of their different locator models to find a 1 kg bag of silver coins that Morgan's friend buried near the factory a half meter deep.
None of the OKM products could find it, not even with their georadar.
This is a target any decent metal detector could easily find.
This is a perfect example to illustrate why it is good to test various equipment, and let the factory people show you their equipment for the task actually working.
If they have nothing that works, then it's time to leave.
This is a good way for Morgan to test, because it makes him more knowledgeable when he knows for certain what is crap as well as what is good.
And this is why I like to read Morgan's posts - he tells the truth when he tests equipment.

1. You know the PDK circuit Morgan, Geo and perhaps even Andreas (years ago) have used for experimenting has something to do with the Mineoro history?
The PDK and many of the Greek locators are derived from an experimental pistol which Alonso assembled, as well as the DCH locator which he designed for Mineoro, and various influences from Esteban.
These are early Alonso designs which came before the later DC and FG models.
The current Crypton Mini design is also derived from the Alonso pistol, but is tuned differently, and does not use the secret antenna parts that are hidden in the Alonso designs.
The OBMD-1 utilizes a different technology than the Alonso PD or the the Mini, or any of the other Alonso PD based designs.

2. If you would get from a big company like Sony or Philips a full money back warranty if you are not satisfied enough with the newest blu-ray player of course you would have no problem with it to buy and test it.
So the problem for you may be only is that it would be a foreign country and a small company. So whats wrong if Crypton would give such a warranty for full satisfied customers and for building up trust in the provided technology?
I do not play games with retail warranties for the purpose of free sampling and then send it back for a refund after I finish playing with their merchandise.
I buy products which I want to own, from real stores where I can walk inside, and the store guarantees all the products they sell to be working.

If you are really want to buy a Crypton locator, then you should buy it and worry about warrantee problems for yourself.
These things do not concern me.
For me, I would rather watch the forum to see what kind of response is reported for the Mini.

You like treasure-hunting but you are not interested in having personally a working (lets assume it really works) LRL and you are not even interested in testing this device by yourself?
I already answered this question in the last post.
Besides, I don't have much time for treasure hunting at present.
If the Crypton company wanted to send a Mini for me to test, then I would test it for them as a favor and report the results.
But I have no interest to take any measures to get a Mini.

So what are you looking for here in this thread?
I am looking for the same things that most other people are looking for in this thread.
We are waiting to see some field reports that tell the response of the Mini, since there are no reports yet.

Someone should force you to test this device under all circumstances so you may change your mind when you are in real contact and not just by some kind of digital information crap!
Who do you suppose will force me to do this testing?
For what purpose?
Do you really believe I could get gold fever?

Nothing against your method, in alot cases it works to collect a huge amount of information, trying to watch behind the curtain, not believing all that blandish and seductive commercial propaganda!
It appears you have no clue why I read the longrangelocating forums.
1. I am not a professional treasure hunter, and I don't need to buy the most cutting edge treasure hunting equipment to stay in any sort of treasure hunting business.
2. There is no huge amount of information in the longrangelocator forum.
There are only sporadic news items and discussions here, and people asking for help with circuits.
If you want to read a huge amount of information, then look in Geotech, where you will find a huge amount of information.

A person can have a 100% good reputation as ebay seller an still all what is there to see is a big fake and fraud to rip off people.
I still would not order one until I first test it with my own hands to see if I think it will help me to find treasure.
Well in that case I guess you will have to wait for a long time - until someone near you living may get one.
I have tested with my own hands an LRL that you can buy from ebay with a money back guarantee (Pay restocking fee and freight).
Guess what? It didn't work for me or for more than 50 other people who tried it.
And I still don't see a reason why I should buy an LRL from ebay or deal LRL warrantees.

So why bother yourself with this Crypton Mini topic?
See above.

btw. how someone should test such a device on a real "scientific level" at all if it just reacts on long time ago buried objects?
1. Determine exactly what the equipment is supposed to detect.
2. Check to see if it detects what it is supposed to detect.
3. Measure at what distance and what consistency it detects what it is supposed to detect according to scientific procedures.
4. Write a scientific report to record your test.

Assuming this detector points to some location or direction 10m away. As we know already those devices have detection problems
if coming close to the find so we may get a potential seach field of 3x3 meters (10'x10'). But this area in many places already is huge enough that there is a find just simply by chance!

If the metal detector finds nothing it was an error of the LRL, but if the metal detector finds something there this doesn'tmean it was indeed located by the LRL because perhaps the find was there just simple by chance!

OK, with a find that is made out of gold this risk could be reduced because such finds are much more rare, but it also could take a very long time or trial period until someone finds such a small region that contains gold, especially if the LRL just reaches 10meters distance.

So probably you couldn't test it at all until you have a well documented test-area with buried non-iron objects from 10-20 years ago?

No wait, the Crypton Mini is full reliable testable the following method:
1. looking for a site that only contains a few finds each 10-15meters like the outskirts of an old battlefield.
2. analysing how many trys resulting in a real find (leadball etc.)
3. the more such tries the more accurate the test will be, minimum 20 tries are needed and over 50% have to be successful

Only such a method would be able to exclude finds by pure coincidence that suggest the LRL has detected something.

Another method needs 2 persons:
Without letitng the second person with the LRL knowing it, person 1 has to checkout the minimum 25x25m testfield with an usual MD how many and where are the potential finds are located.
The best would be if there is just 1 (For the Crypton noniron) buried object. No the LRL user has to start from the center of this area and person 2 can check out if his device really points into the correct direction or finds the area around where this find is located. (this second method only works if the MDs radiation doesn't destroys the needed EM-field-structure).
If these are your test protocols, I doubt you will be able to prove anything about detection or failure of a machine.

J_P You addressed another important topic regarding the LRLs detection depth.
If the LRL locates a coin at perhaps 2feet (65cm) and the co-used metal-detector can't detect this coin by usual sweeping the ground the culprit would be the LRL.

So how to solve this problem?
I don't understand the problem. What problem do you have with the conditions you described?

For a real convincing testing of the Crypton Mini a Mini-Excavator must be used that removes the ground from the whole detected area! Perhaps 2x2 meters in lenght and 1m deep.
Next the whole excavation material must be searched thoroughly and the new new ground level, too with the metal detector.
This will destroy the LRL detection field of course but it would give some kind of proof how reliable this detector really works, especially after alot such same tests.

I think it is possible to estimate how deep the Crypton Mini is able to detect a find with a certain size.
I'm shure a small object has also be closer to the surface so it is still possible to LRL detect it, comparable with the usual metal-detectors abilities.
I think you don't know what you're talking about.
Maybe you should first learn what these locators are detecting before you decide you can estimate what depth they can detect to.

But it would be good to know the approximatly depth to avoid digging extremly large holes for nothing.
Watch some LRL videos to get an approximate idea.

So we see, even if we would have personally the Crypton Mini in our hands to test this is still a demanding task to get real scientifical worthful or in other words reliable test results.
And I doubt the test videos we may get in the next time are based on this real meaningful methods!
But perhaps first someone really has to pay a price until he gets a real working LRL device. Morgan and Geo also paid alot first.
Or do exist any doubts their PDKs etc. doesn't work at all ????

And all what they have is just a big self-deception by wrongly made or interpreted test results and assumptions or conclusions ?????

Something to think about:
How many double blind tests are done to certify different brands of metal detectors before they are released for public sale?
Have you ever considered that metal detectors never needed any scientific testing before hobbyists bought them?
Maybe it is fairly easy for a hobbyist or professional treasure hunter to determine in a few hours whether he likes the machine is testing or not.
As long as there are no factory salesmen hiding secret transmitters to fool you, I don't think the average person would fail to determine whether he wants to keep the machine he is testing.

Why not ask Morgan about that?
He is a professional who has tested a lot of treasure hunting equipment.
Ask how many double blind tests he ran to find out what equipment would work for him.
Or send a PM to Carl-NC and ask how many of his personal metal detectors he ran double blind tests for before he bought them.
Maybe these people just turned them on and played with them for awhile, then decided to buy or not.

If a machine is working, the word gets around, and nobody seems to care what scientific tests are made unless they are trying to tweak the performance.
And if a machine is not working, the word also gets around, and still nobody cares what scientific tests are made.

I wouldn't waste my time running scientific tests If I saw a machine working in my hands.
And I wouldn't waste my money if I saw it didn't work to my satisfaction.


Best Wishes,
J_P

[Funfinder]

@ Qiaozhi

> I could be wrong, but I suspect you'll find that he's simply fulfilling a need in the market, especially in Greece where many people are becoming desperate.

If in distress the devil eats flies?
You think the greeks now built up their last hopes on LRLs for getting a good life back? Don't let them know that.



@ J_P

>> Yes, I believe that Morgan always makes true and accurate reports for the equipment he tests.

> But does this also means you "believe" the equipment he tests is real useful for the task area it was created?!

However, I have no problem if Morgan tests all what he likes - it's just the question to what results this leads:

If those results really would have weight those should directly lead to sue OKM because the results of Morgans tests say they are producing crap.

But this will not happen, Morgan tests as much as he likes and Mineoro and OKM make happy business on and on. So the benefit is almost zero.

I have told this already a year ago, if the police or the courts would work the same style, all criminals would run around free and all innocent people would be in jail!

What Morgan does is just some kind of orientation for that who want to believe in him and think his tests are made clever and smart enough.

What he's doing is a nice trip into the right direction but it's far away from 100% reliable results.



> 1. You know the PDK circuit Morgan, Geo and perhaps even Andreas (years ago) have used for experimenting has something to do with the Mineoro history?


Sorry my friend, you fell into a little trap. But it wasn't an evil one, just for showing the situation:

Cause the problem is:

Morgan for you is OK but Alonso is a dirty tricks playing criminal for you - just the problem is:
Both are working or using improvements of the same prototype-circuits!

So don't ya think that the Mineoro stuff also may work if adjusted correct to foreign countries EM-field conditions?

Why Morgan should have been able within short time to create a "real working LRL" out of those old Alonso circuit while Alonso itself was not able after many more years to create a working device?

Don't you think pure logically and plausible looked at the situation it has to be completly reversed?


Of course there still is that accusation that Mineoro had used a hidden transmitter who was discovered somehow - if I'm right?!

So is the Mineoro now a fully not working fraud-company or did they just using some tricks to "convince" people a little bit "better" than it would have been possible without those tricks? I'm asking this because it's a well known method of all kind of companies to let their products shine much more better as they are in reality - the commercial spots are full of them.



> For me, I would rather watch the forum to see what kind of response is reported for the Mini.

> If the Crypton company wanted to send a Mini for me to test, then I would test it for them as a favor and report the results.


Shure, but perhaps this way is too cheap and you can wait forever here until you get the real needed info
or such a device for free testing.

Extremely valuable information often has a very high price and very rarely you can get it for free.

This is the big problem with LRLs. Too many people risk the high price and get nothing as reward.
It's a particulary problem for the whole treasure-hunting. People not just pay for eletronic devices thousands of bucks
but also for expeditions, vehicles, helpers, "top secret informaton" and other equipment that enables them to hunt at a
promising location at all.

btw. we must not forget the concept of Andreas he wanna realize with the Mini:

It shall fill the customers with enthusiasm for the OBMD-1 because this is his pro-LRL and top product he wanna sell.
If the Mini wouldn't work nobody will upgrade to the OBMD-1 and spend much more money for it.



> Who do you suppose will force me to do this testing?
> For what purpose?
> Do you really believe I could get gold fever?


Too much theory and no practice at all with the Mini we are talking about is no good argumentation basis, it's more or less just guessing.

So we need to find a way that you can get such a thingy for free...

Andreas "must" send you one for free - if your trustworthy practical results lead to a positive valuation this would
be the entrance for Andreas to a real extremly good working business. Especially if he wanna get customers from America, too.

We must not forget we are talking about a real business product that is available for real money spending customers
and therefore it has to work for real (=reliable functioning), otherwise Andreas could get himself into huge trouble.

greetings

[Qiaozhi]

@ Qiaozhi

> I could be wrong, but I suspect you'll find that he's simply fulfilling a need in the market, especially in Greece where many people are becoming desperate.

If in distress the devil eats flies?
You think the greeks now built up their last hopes on LRLs for getting a good life back? Don't let them know that.

Only some of them have.

By the way, try using the Multi-Quote and Quote buttons when you reply to a previous post. It will make your reply much easier to read.

[J_Player]

Only some of them have.

By the way, try using the Multi-Quote and Quote buttons when you reply to a previous post. It will make your reply much easier to read.

I agree,
It is much easier to read posts which are not a whole page long. The Quote button works good.
To answer Funfinders post, I will break it into manageable sized parts and address each point separately:


Originally Posted by Funfinder:
I have no problem if Morgan tests all what he likes - it's just the question to what results this leads:
Where the results lead?
From what Morgan showed us, his results lead to finding a lot of treasure.
Read his posts – look at all the treasures he recovered.
See a few photos of Morgan's recoveries below.

Originally Posted byFunfinder:
If those results really would have weight those should directly lead to sue OKM because the results of Morgans tests say they are producing crap....
...[bla, bla bla … police, courts, criminals.... sue OKM ...]
You think it is a good idea for Morgan to waste his time suing OKM instead of spending his time recovering treasure?
Morgan already found a good way to protect himself from fake OKM BS.
He only needs to test their equipment to see it is crap, then walk away and don't waste any more time with them.

And Morgan did a big favor for all of us.
He told us the true stories of his experience with OKM and with many other brands of treasure locating equipment, so we do not need to waste our money to buy crap equipment.
Hundreds of treasure hunters have read Morgans reports, and they were happy that they did not waste their money.

If you believe it is a good idea to spend your time to sue OKM, then why don't you sue them?
I will be happy to watch your reports in your legal case against OKM.
But I do not think you will win, because OKM does not make any claims that you will find treasure from long distance when you use their crappy equipment.
They only make are claims which you cannot prove are false.
Read their advertising and see for yourself.
I think Morgan is too smart to waste his time on this kind of thing – better to go treasure hunting.


Best Wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Funfinder:
The problem is:
Morgan for you is OK but Alonso is a dirty tricks playing criminal for you - just the problem is:
Both are working or using improvements of the same prototype-circuits!

Wrong!
They are not both working, and this forum is full of evidence which confirms it.
Morgan made his first report of his testing Mineoro in 2007, where he reported the plastic markers that Mineoro puts on the ground in their demonstration area.
Morgan watched how these markers cause the Mineoro locators to detect the static charge that is placed on the plastic markers, not buried gold.
Morgan told us how he could touch the plastic markers and observe the Mineoro locator find more distance when he increased the static charge on the plastic, until Damasio ordered him to stop...

“If i charge a plastic item with static, i can detect this small plastic 2 meters distance. But i´m searching for gold not plastic...

...I´m sorry if i disapoint some members,but its the true about my DC2008,a broken dream...It seams to work but not as i aspect
In reality it detects GOLD with clear signal,large coin 20cm, jar full with silver coins 50cm,this is the on air test,small iron reject, big iron detect...Work like a weak metal detector on air tests... ”

Read Morgan's full report of his visit to the Mineoro factory here: http://www.longrangelocators.com/for...2635#post62635

In another post by Morgan talking about the deceit and tricks which Mineoro uses to fool customers, he told us how he watched them trick Connie to make her believe Mineoro was locating buried treasures, not the static charge from the plastic or the hidden transmitters they use:

“This kind of trick react with hand friction on the plastic,so what kind of TRANSMITER they have in the field test ???”

But Connie believed the factory people, and she bought a Mineoro locator.
Not long after that, we read a post from Connie....
"...I bought a DC2008 from Mineoro. ( I really had a brain wash from Brazil )"

http://www.longrangelocators/com/forums/showpost.php?p=96087&postcount=86

Read what Morgan says about Mineoro tricks and deception during Alonso's demonstration in France:
"THIS IS WHAT MINEORO IS DOING, DECEIVING PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD, I THINK THIS FAKE DEMONSTRATIONS MUST STOP ONE OF THIS DAYS...
They can say: MINEORO works for treasures, limited distance, Mineoro cant find small gold objects. And EVERYTHING will be better,and of course thy must lower the prices.”

Originally Posted by Funfinder:
Of course there still is that accusation that Mineoro had used a hidden transmitter who was discovered somehow - if I'm right?!

So is the Mineoro now a fully not working fraud-company or did they just using some tricks to "convince" people a little bit "better" than it would have been possible without those tricks? I'm asking this because it's a well known method of all kind of companies to let their products shine much more better as they are in reality - the commercial spots are full of them.
No. Mineoro uses hidden transmitters and they plant jewelry to fool their clients during demonstrations.
This is not a well-known method except with companies which are committing fraud.

Mineoro company leaders hide transmitters to commit fraud against their clients,
They steal gold from their clients.
They tell lies to their clients to help sell their products.
They post false photos of treasure on their websites to help sell their products.
They use hidden transmitters and jewelry which they plant to fool people to think their equipment is finding treasure.

Morgan was the first person to report to us how Mineoro uses hidden transmitters to fool people to believe they are detecting buried metal:
Originally posted by Morgan:
"Sorry Hugo but i need post this MINEORO trick, is possible that they use it in the factory to make the clients the ilusion that there is gold buried there.
Dont worry, i not post the story you told me, just show to friends the buried hand made oscillator that make the MINEOROS beep.

http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showpost.php?p=143078&postcount=62

Read where Robalocarapanda told us how Alonso and his factory helper Filepe buried a transmitter to fool them so they would believe there is buried gold.
Read where they caught Alonso stealing gold from their test ground:

...alonzo himself admitted that he put the device, under the pretext of helping to ionize the gold target, but this is lie as the equipments were saturated with the oscillator frequency,
the gold target was stolen, and the oscillator deceived us all, made us believe that he was still buried.

http://www.longrangelocators.com/for...4&postcount=76

Alonso hidden transmitter:


Alonso travels around the world during secret trips to find new distributors who have not tried the Mineoro locators yet.
Then he stages fake demonstrations to show his locators showing amazing recoveries.
But his locators only show amazing recoveries until after he leaves, then they no longer work.
Why?
Because Alonso is not there with hidden transmitters to make beeps where he plants jewelry.

Morgan received an email from one of the French team who witnessed Alonso's fake demonstration in France. This French team member became convinced the FG-90 was detecting treasure, so he bought an FG-90 and found it did not work after Alonso left:
I WAS TALKING WITH ONE FRENCH PERSON WHO PARTICIPATE IN THE ALONSOS AND PATRICIA FG90 DEMONSTRATION IN THE FOREST(YOUTUBE MOVIES).
THE PERSON IN QUESTION; BOUGTH ONE FG90, AND NOW IS VERY DESAPOINTED.
I'M SURE THERE IS SOME TRICK IN FG90 DEMONSTRATIONS.

IF WANT MORE DETAILS SEND PM.
I FEEL SORRY THO EAR ABOUT THIS...

http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showpost.php?p=128710&postcount=190

Even today, Mineoro is using magic tricks and hidden transmitters to fool people to think they are detectomg gold.
Robalocarapanda showed us the neclace that he recovered with chacho in Mexico in 2010, and this recovery is still seen on the Mineoro facebook page.
Rbalocarapanda tells us how Alosno buried another hidden transmitter, and hid this same neclace to convince a client that his locator found it in 2012.
See here: http://www.longrangelocators.com/for...&postcount=141

Mineoro's advertising is full of fake treasure photos and tricks to make you buy their crap.
See their facebook page where they claim:
"Mr. Jim Mitchell, American citizen, from Dallas, Texas 2nd. World War veteran, found 10 silver coins with MINEORO first Long Range Detector DCH85, in 1985".

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=329410943814499&set=a.216078811814380.55533.216042025151392&type=1&permPage=1

This is a purely made-up lie!
Jim Mitchell never found those coins using a Mineoro locator. Read the truth here:

http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showpost.php?p=143255&postcount=143

Read where this BS was first discovered in 2006 here: http://www.longrangelocators.com/for...ad.php?t=12097
Look at the photo at post #36 --- it was all a bunch of staged fake photos that Jim Mitchel did for Mineoro and Electroscope companies.

Originally Posted by Funfinder:
So don't ya think that the Mineoro stuff also may work if adjusted correct to foreign countries EM-field conditions?
I don't believe a mineoro locator detects the EM-field of a country.
I believe it works like crap in Brazil, same as anywhere else, just as Morgan told us it does in his reports from his testing in Brazil.

Originally Posted by Funfinder:
Why Morgan should have been able within short time to create a "real working LRL" out of those old Alonso circuit while Alonso itself was not able after many more years to create a working device?[/SIZE]
Reason: Because Morgan is not using the Alonso circuits.
He is using a modified circuit which is not similar to the Alonso PD circuit, and has secret antenna parts which you cannot find arranged in this manner in any Alonso designs.

Originally Posted by Funfinder:
Don't you think pure logically and plausible looked at the situation it has to be completly reversed?
No. I don't think it is plausible to look at the situation reversed.
If the situation were reversed, Morgan would never lie to people about his treasure recoveries.
Morgan would not hide transmitters to fool people.
Morgan would never steal gold from a client.
Morgan would not use tricks to fool people to think his locators are finding treasure.
Morgan would not be able to survive in the treasure hunting business if the situation were reversed and he was forced to use only Mineoro locators.
Mineoro locators are not good treasure hunting machines in Brazil or anywhere else.


Alonso does not develop new equipment at this time.
Nothing has changed substantially since the Mineoro FG series was started.
He lets the technicians at the factory make minor changes and modifications to the cosmetics and circuits.
The rumors I hear is Alonso is buying locators from other companies, not developing any new designs of his own.
The only reason he is not in jail is because Robalocarapanda knows Alonso is old, and he knows Alonso would have a difficult time to survive if he reported him to the police and had him sent to a Mexican jail.


Morgan has consistently given us true reports of his observations of many expensive treasure locators. He has saved hundreds of treasure hunters from wasting their money on crap equipment.




Best Wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

For me, I would rather watch the forum to see what kind of response is reported for the Mini.
If the Crypton company wanted to send a Mini for me to test, then I would test it for them as a favor and report the results.

Shure, but perhaps this way is too cheap and you can wait forever here until you get the real needed info or such a device for free testing.

Wrong!
I am not waiting for a chance to test a Crypton Mini.
I have no interest in a Crypton Mini, nor do I have any hopes that I will ever see one.
I would not even bother to test a Crypton unless someone asked me test it for a favor.
If you are the person who has problems of waiting to test a Crypton Mini, then maybe you should make arrangements to test a Crypton Mini.

Extremely valuable information often has a very high price and very rarely you can get it for free.
This is the big problem with LRLs. Too many people risk the high price and get nothing as reward.
It's a particulary problem for the whole treasure-hunting. People not just pay for eletronic devices thousands of bucks but also for expeditions, vehicles, helpers, "top secret informaton" and other equipment that enables them to hunt at a promising location at all.

You can get a lot of help and free information if you read the reports that Morgan makes for treasure hunting equipment.
Also look for some excellent reports by others, even by Carl-NC.

Too much theory and no practice at all with the Mini we are talking about is no good argumentation basis, it's more or less just guessing.
So we need to find a way that you can get such a thingy for free...

No we don't..!
I don't want A Mini.
If I wanted a Mini, then I would buy it.
You can stop making plans for what you must find for me.
You must use your plans to "get such a thingy for free"... somewhere else away from me.

Andreas "must" send you one for free - if your trustworthy practical results lead to a positive valuation this would be the entrance for Andreas to a real extremly good working business. Especially if he wanna get customers from America, too.

Why don't you send your ideas of what Andreas “must” do to Andreas?.
I am not concerned with this kind of thing.


Best Wishes,
J_P

[Funfinder]

@ J_P

Originally Posted byFunfinder:
If those results really would have weight those should directly lead to sue OKM because the results of Morgans tests say they are producing crap....
...[bla, bla bla … police, courts, criminals.... sue OKM ...]

Just a short note until I will invest more time for answering or just ignore ya:

Don't call what I'm saying "bla bla bla"!

You have good argumentation but they change nothing - if Mineoro or OKM or even Dell Winders would read about your accusations here all they do is just laughing and going on with their business! Your "war" is limited to the internet like a bystander or witness just would write into his diary that he watched a crime instead of going to the police.

Your huge large postings are the proof how massive your mind is obsessed with this whole LRL topic - as if your life depends on it.

This is no f* computergame and that's why I have the right to object points like "police, courts, criminals.... sue OKM" and you have not to slander it as a bla bla bla!

We can work together to get working results in the reality or you can play your internet-only LRL-detective-game!

[J_Player]

Hi Funfinder,
Qiaozhi asked to use the multiquotes to make the posts easier to read.
"...[bla, bla bla … police, courts, criminals.... sue OKM ...]" is a way to abbreviate 12 lines of double-spaced text that you posted, since you don't use multiquotes.
I can easily put your text into quotes with the "...[bla, bla bla … police, courts, criminals.... sue OKM ...]" part removed:

I have no problem if Morgan tests all what he likes - it's just the question to what results this leads:
If those results really would have weight those should directly lead to sue OKM because the results of Morgans tests say they are producing crap.

Your suggestions that Morgan's tests "should directly lead to sue OKM" are WRONG, because OKM is not violating any laws, nor do they make any false claims that I know of.
They do not claim to find treasure at long distance, or even at a distance as good as competitors metal locating equipment that cost 1/4 as much.

You know very well there is no reason to sue OKM or report them to the police simply because they charge too much for crappy equipment.
There is no law against selling crappy equipment which is overpriced, and does not detect treasures any farther than a metal detector or a gradiometer can detect.
I believe you know this as well as the rest of the people who read this forum.

If you don't know about the performance of OKM, then read what people who use OKM products all over the world reported here:

http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showpost.php?p=43757&postcount=6

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=131235&postcount=2

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=38572&postcount=1

http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showpost.php?p=112348&postcount=44

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=100931&postcount=1

http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showpost.php?p=112268&postcount=32

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=82553&postcount=10

http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showpost.php?p=43745&postcount=2

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=132007&postcount=32

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=55004&postcount=107

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=80373&highlight=OKM#post80373

http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showpost.php?p=112813&postcount=75

http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showpost.php?p=112813&postcount=75

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=115013&postcount=5

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=101735&postcount=12

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=100985&postcount=3

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=44347&postcount=6

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=105112&postcount=26

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=102428&postcount=17

If you remember, this thread is where we look to read news of the Crypton Mini, not for posts to tell how good OKM equipment is and about suing them.
If you wish to tell us how good OKM is and details of suing them, maybe you could open a new topic.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Funfinder]

@ Qiaozhi

I'm not interested to quote fully the complety 1.000s of words some of those postings contain when I just wanna answer to special parts. But the "wrap quote tags around selected text" makes it better readable, so perhaps I may use that.



reply to http://www.longrangelocators.com/for...&postcount=143
#143 01-27-2013, 11:31 PM
@ J_P

OK, I will start to invest some time but not that excessive than you, I have other important things to do also.

Where the results lead?
From what Morgan showed us, his results lead to finding a lot of treasure.
Read his posts – look at all the treasures he recovered.
See a few photos of Morgan's recoveries below.

Well, thanx for that pictures, interesting and I'm happy for Morgan that he finally found something precious by LRL because this was his goal since a long time, so its just fair.

And I don't have any reason why not trust him.
I'm even thinking that his "send PDK back if it doesn't work for you"-warranty is a very fair and respectful turn.

If those results really would have weight those should directly lead to sue OKM because the results of Morgans tests say they are producing crap.

What I wanted to say is that real counting tests are made completly different. Compare it with testing a new plane if it really flies and not crushes and causes the death of 100s of people.

There is no public evidence, no eye-witnesses, no testcircuits that really show precise results. If you are so eager to defend Morgans test-results and LRL-finds why don't pursuade him to visit Carl and his test-field?

I know the answer already:
No, he won't risk that, because his PDK now is finetuned to Portugal's EM-fieldcondition and may not work in the states.

He only needs to test their equipment to see it is crap, then walk away and don't waste any more time with them.

WRONG!
Because this says nothing - Morgan's test result is just a drop of water on a hot stone and all what makes him so important that he's one of the only Bionic testers here in this forum.

OKM still is alive and kicking and LRL producing and this wouldn't be the case if all customers would be fully unsatisfied with the Bionic etc.

And Morgan did a big favor for all of us.
He told us the true stories of his experience with OKM and with many other brands of treasure locating equipment, so we do not need to waste our money to buy crap equipment.

Fine, and the same way kt315 tested and condemned the Jeohunter.
For luck I had much better information sources than a person that doesn't know how to test a serious detector the right way.

Shure its good that Morgan tests alot stuff and that he's trustworthy to tell us his discovered truth, but this doesn't mean that all of his tests are really good enough to give the full insight.
As example his first Mineoro tests were completly negative!
This caused you to think that all Mineoro is totally nonworking BS.
But if I'm informed correctly meanwhile Morgan or some other persons have got a positive test from a Mineoro device?!

I have no time to explain here detailed how real sophisticated tests have to be made, but for shure on much higher level as Morgan did.

Hundreds of treasure hunters have read Morgans reports, and they were happy that they did not waste their money.

Shure, and thats fully OK. But it hasn't stopped Mineoro and it hasn't stoped guys from South America or even Mexico to tell their LRLs are working.

I ask myself if this world is full of idiots if it comes to LRL?!
All we need is 1-2 years warranty and if this stuff doesn't work as desired or advertised the producer or firm will get it back and has
to pay for all additional costs like postage or bank-transfer!

Otherwise all those devices must have a warning sticker:

Attention!
This is a fully esoterical product!
It may work, it may not.

If you believe it is a good idea to spend your time to sue OKM, then why don't you sue them?

If it should became necessary and if I have time enough I will (because they have no right at all to be*ss people with lousy LRL-scam), I have good influence and connection to many treasure-hunters from Germany and it would be very simple to call them together if we have enough evidence OKM is selling betraying Bionic crap! Absolutly no problem, believe me.

I will be happy to watch your reports in your legal case against OKM.
But I do not think you will win, because OKM does not make any claims that you will find treasure from long distance when you use their crappy equipment.

So what, this is totally unnecesary. They are still fooling and betraying people if they dare to make wrong suggestions or function-describtions. Tricking people is a crime like selling them faked cheap bronze-rings with wrong gold-number inside.

They only make are claims which you cannot prove are false.

Nonsense, a good lawyer can shutdown their business within a few days if their products would be good for nothing at all aka totally nonworking LRLs. People are not that stupid to buy over many years devices for 10.000 Euro that are totally useless and afterwards would do not the slightest thing against it. There's too much money involved and not all treasure-hunters are holy and goodhearted guys.

I think Morgan is too smart to waste his time on this kind of thing – better to go treasure hunting.

No, he simply is not motivated for a war with OKM because so far he hasn't lost a huge amount of money by buying on of their LRL products and afterwards it turned out that he was tricked by wrong claims and promises.
His only interest is a real working LRL and like our interest getting real reliable info if the OKM Bionic works or not.

He is satisfied with the info he got (Bionic is not working) so no problem for him. But it also could be possible that he wastes a great opportunity in finding treasures because this info was false or not the complete truth.

Facts are:
OKM is interested in selling his stuff.
They're not just sell LRL Bionic but alot other detectors too which are proven to work!

So all what is needed is what is OKM doing to get people attracted for the Bionic. What are the claims, how do treasure-hunters react on that claims, why those "hopeful" persons are motiviated to buy such expensive devices (and they won't without any chance to test)

Next are those tests for real or just a big show and much more such stuff.
In short words: What factors brings product and customer together!

And a clearly not working 10.000 Euro scambox never ever could brought together with a customer because no sane thinking person would just simply throw away so much money!

btw. some time ago I was just around 100km away from the OKM firm located in eastern Germany but I had better to do than visiting them! Perhaps I'd have been motivated much more to check this whole stuff out directly if the interaction here in this forum in earlier times would have been a little bit more cooperative and productive.

At least finally we have some really interesting results from Morgan plus Geo and some Mini LRL from Greece which may help finding out the real scientifically tested and proven truth!


greetings

[J_Player]

What I wanted to say is that real counting tests are made completly different. Compare it with testing a new plane if it really flies and not crushes and causes the death of 100s of people.

Morgan does not conduct tests to certify an airplane.
He performed simple tests to see if OKM company made any good metal locating equipment.
He saw how none of the OKM equipment was able to find the bag of coins that his metal detector could find, so he walked away from OKM and saved $10,000.
It looks like his way works to me.
I can't imagine anyone else conducting a test which is required to certify an aircraft before they buy a metal detector or gradiometer for treasure hunting.
It sounds like a waste of time to me when there are hundreds of reports from people who already tried the equipment and told how well they work.

The only scientific tests that were made for metal locating equipment that I know about were made for mine detectors.
And nobody I know buys those for treasure hunting.
Maybe you can tell us where we can find better scientific tests that show Morgan did not find the correct answer when no OKM product could locate his bag of coins.
I don't think any better scientific tests exist for OKM products, judging from their web page.

There is no public evidence, no eye-witnesses, no testcircuits that really show precise results. If you are so eager to defend Morgans test-results and LRL-finds why don't pursuade him to visit Carl and his test-field?
...this says nothing - Morgan's test result is just a drop of water on a hot stone and all what makes him so important that he's one of the only Bionic testers here in this forum.

I don't have to defend Morgan's results.
People all over the world using OKM products already confirmed his results are accurate.

I am defending our right to use our own methods to decide what we want to buy or not.
None of us are required to perform any tests and certifications that are used for aircraft before we buy a metal detector or gradiometer.
This is only some BS that you are making up.
We already know from reports all over the world that it is crap.
And we can decide what we will buy or not buy without making the tests which you say must be made.

You failed to read all the forum posts which agree with Morgan's report.
You want me to believe that all of these people are wrong and only you and hung are right to think OKM makes wonderful products?
Sorry, but I don't believe it.
I believe what I read from a lot of people who actually used OKM products and made forum posts to tell their experiences.
If you actually try reading them, you will see they found the same as what Morgan found -- crap.

Try actually reading what most people say about OKM:

http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showpost.php?p=43757&postcount=6

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=131235&postcount=2

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=38572&postcount=1

http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showpost.php?p=112348&postcount=44

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=100931&postcount=1

http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showpost.php?p=112268&postcount=32

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=82553&postcount=10

http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showpost.php?p=43745&postcount=2

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=132007&postcount=32

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=55004&postcount=107

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=80373&highlight=OKM#post80373

http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showpost.php?p=112813&postcount=75

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=115013&postcount=5

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=101735&postcount=12

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=100985&postcount=3

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=44347&postcount=6

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=105112&postcount=26

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=102428&postcount=17

These are only some of the reports complaining about OKM.
There are quite a few more in the Geotech and longrangelocators forum.

Of course, I will be anxious to read any better scientific tests that you might perform when you go to the OKM factory.


Best Wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

Morgan ...
As example his first Mineoro tests were completly negative!
This caused you to think that all Mineoro is totally nonworking BS.
But if I'm informed correctly meanwhile Morgan or some other persons have got a positive test from a Mineoro device?!

What you are posting is not correct. You are not informed correctly.
Apparently you did not read the link I posted to show where morgan reported his trip to the Mineoro factory.
In Morgan's test at the factory, he did not say the Mineoro was completely negative.
Try reading the link I showed you from post 59 to 68. You will see why you are wrong.

Originally posted by Morgan:
I´m sorry if i disapoint some members,but its the true about my DC2008,a broken dream...It seams to work but not as i aspect
In reality it detects GOLD with clear signal,large coin 20cm, jar full with silver coins 50cm,this is the on air test,small iron reject,big iron detect...Work like a weak metal detector on air tests...

http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showthread.php?p=62635#post62635

If you read his report, you will see Morgan also made some other comments abut the detection of the Mineoro locators, and you will find he has the same opinion today.
I don't see where Morgan said it was completely negative like you are claiming.

I have read similar reports from Geo and others all over the world, including reports that it only works on lucky days, and only if there is a very large target at a much shorter range than Mineoro advertises.
These are the reports I have heard from users of Mineoro users who are seeing the best results.
I also read more reports from others who don't find any detection at all from Mineoro.
Not even the gold plate that they include with the locator.

You are basing your arguments on wrong information because you didn't even read Morgan's posts before you gave wrong answers.
If you expect me to stop summarizing your pages of erroneous text as "bla, bla, bla", then you would be wise to actually read the text first, and post factual statements.

I ask myself if this world is full of idiots if it comes to LRL?!
All we need is 1-2 years warranty and if this stuff doesn't work as desired or advertised the producer or firm will get it back and has
to pay for all additional costs like postage or bank-transfer!

If you think it is a good idea to buy an LRL, then I think you should go ahead and buy whatever LRLs you want, and take your problems about warranties and postage to whoever you buy your LRL from.

Best Wishes,
J_P