Why cant metal detectors have longer ranges like 100 meters or higher?

[WM6]

Here some nice extremely long range design.

http://www.quantumbalancing.com/vortex_antenna.htm

[Mike(Mont)]

I've worked with many different types of locators over the years. I like the frequency generators but they don't always work. When Dell Winders and Vernon Rose were working on the MFD's with the electronic receiver, they learned so much about the signal lines and how the interference affects things. It's a lot more difficult to see what is going on with only a set of L-rods to work with.

[Qiaozhi]

Exactly. And thanks for your reply.
The question perhaps doesnt have to do with metal detectors . so let me try to make an example
I have a neodymium magnet that can induce very clearly a field at any conductor hanging from a thread across the room.-the conductor moves that is- My room is about 25ft. So seemingly the first step is established into simulating a distance object. The next step is receiving the information which could be the tricky part. I may have a mental block but it looks like there can be only two solving approaches for the next step:

A-The new of course much weaker magnetic field induced in the distant conductor may be too weak for me to still detect it at the 25ft distance ? perhaps a super sensitive magnetometer could help but I understand that the field would be very low.

B-(the better solution?) Detecting by receiving the electromagnetic wave with an antenna. I.e, after we have excited our little conductor from a distance with our strong magnetic pulse train of a specific frequency from the tx, current is induced in the distant conductor at the same frequency and now we receive the weak electromagnetic wave of the same frequency emanating from the conductor. I am really not sure if my point is clear but I would love why this cant work ?
thanks

If you build a simple Colpitts oscillator (such as found in some Tesoro metal detectors) and then build a separate receiver; you'll find that you can receive the TX signal from several metres away. However, this situation is not the same as trying to receive the weak [eddy current] signal from a metal target. Also, it is a fallacy to call a metal detector coil an antenna.

[Qiaozhi]

When Dell Winders and Vernon Rose were working on the MFD's with the electronic receiver, they learned so much about the signal lines and how the interference affects things.

It's just a shame that signal lines are the simply the product of an overactive imagination.

[Mike(Mont)]

I compare it to learning to play golf. Many people do not have the patience. And I always get a chuckle when someone who can't use a set of L-rods tries to tell others they can't possibly work. That's the Natural Selection process in action.

[Mike(Mont)]

Again, I say watch the Meyl videos and read some of his website. maybe you will learn something. Study the near field. If you are using 300MHz, well the near field is not too far, maybe inches. The frequencies used in the MFD are in some cases less than 100Hz, but even at 5KHz it's a few miles. Not saying an MFD can pick up a target at that distance, but maybe if the target is a large vein.

[Mike(Mont)]

Some guy from MIT was talking about the Witricity which is very similar to what Meyl is doing. He said using the resonance is almost a million times more efficient compared to induction (like a transformer).

Yeah, the biased don't want to discuss this one.

[J_Player]

Some guy from MIT was talking about the Witricity which is very similar to what Meyl is doing. He said using the resonance is almost a million times more efficient compared to induction (like a transformer).

Yeah, the biased don't want to discuss this one.

Some guy from the LRL forum leaked out his secret for how to find things without using rods.... maybe not a million times more efficient, but lots of fun for a pastime....

http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showpost.php?p=102623&postcount=214

"I can find a signal line without rods. I hold my arms out from my sides and relax my wrists so my hands point down somewhat. I call it the scarecrow stance. Then I walk around the transmitter (arms parallel to signal line) until I feel the psychic electricity. I can't pinpoint the target with this method, just the signal line. I use the Revelation Locator Rod. There is no other rod that has as low stiction. It has an extremely low start-up torque threshold that borders on the infinite. Of course it's not, but it's imperceptible".

Best Wishes,
J_P

[leviterande]

Some guy from the LRL forum leaked out his secret for how to find things without using rods.... maybe not a million times more efficient, but lots of fun for a pastime....

http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showpost.php?p=102623&postcount=214

"I can find a signal line without rods. I hold my arms out from my sides and relax my wrists so my hands point down somewhat. I call it the scarecrow stance. Then I walk around the transmitter (arms parallel to signal line) until I feel the psychic electricity. I can't pinpoint the target with this method, just the signal line. I use the Revelation Locator Rod. There is no other rod that has as low stiction. It has an extremely low start-up torque threshold that borders on the infinite. Of course it's not, but it's imperceptible".

Best Wishes,
J_P

J.P ,
After a healthy amount of reading of your posts, others´ and this and other sites, am I correct to sadly see that there is not a single working machine/concept/idea so far ?

Anyway I am thinking about using metal detectors but with bigger coils to increase the range to some meters at least and yes I know the sensitivity is going down but I will be working in really remote areas, no houses or power lines so hopefully any big non ferro metallic conductor is the point of interest.

My question is this: can I just install a home made big coil to one of the metal detectors? or is there special electronics or a limit to how big a coil can be?

[J_Player]

J.P ,
After a healthy amount of reading of your posts, others´ and this and other sites, am I correct to sadly see that there is not a single working machine/concept/idea so far ?

Anyway I am thinking about using metal detectors but with bigger coils to increase the range to some meters at least and yes I know the sensitivity is going down but I will be working in really remote areas, no houses or power lines so hopefully any big non ferro metallic conductor is the point of interest.

My question is this: can I just install a home made big coil to one of the metal detectors? or is there special electronics or a limit to how big a coil can be?

Hi leviterande,
You are correct to see not a single working machine/concept/idea. You do not see them because the only working LRLs that are viewable are experimental LRLs which cannot be relied on to give positive repeatable results like metal detectors do. As an example, there are the Morgan PDK clone mods of the Alonso Pistol detector. We also have a number of other allegedly working LRLs shown in these forums such as the swinging rod thingies that Mike (Mont) assures you will work. But most of these only work when skeptical people are not watching them work. With that said, there is still something to the concept of long range detection of metals that have been buried a long time. Gold, silver, copper and other metals do corrode after being buried long enough. The corrosion is not much for gold, but enough to cause interactions that can be measured as tiny variations in electronic activity that would normally occur in the vicinity if the metals were not buried. The mechanics of this process is complicated, and would take several pages to explain the basics. But the bottom line is even noble metals can become detectable from a distance if they are buried in the ground for long enough and the soil conditions are favorable.

Is there not a single working LRL?
LRL manufacturers know something is happening with long-time buried metals to make them detectable, but they don't know the full mechanics and physics involved, so they manufacture equipment that might work in some circumstances, but usually fails to work with any kind of reliability. Thus, we see a lot of LRL owners who are disappointed with the performance of their expensive investments. Then we have some manufacturers like OKM and others who manufacture completely fraudulent equipment that does not do what they say it does, as proven by Morgan, when he visited the factory and found their best locator could not find a treasure he buried in shallow dirt outside their factory. One of their employees even advised him he would be wiser to spend his money on a used Mercedes Benz instead of their locator. Unfortunately, there are a lot of LRL manufacturers who produce this kind of crappy fake LRL.
But there are real long range locators that do really find long time buried metals such as gold, silver, copper, bronze, aluminum and others reliably from a long distance. These are not available for the general public to buy, and you will not find anything published about this technology in any treasure hunting forum.

But there is one exception that I have found.
Andreas is a member of this forum who appears to have designed several LRLs which have a track record of finding treasure from a distance. How reliable? I don't know. But I heard reports from Mexico, Greece, USA and the UK that they are very reliable. His machines work on two different principles. The less expensive and shorter range version uses VLF electromagnetic principles to detect, and the more expensive longer range version uses infrared detection methods. In addition, he recently posted circuits for free use to build a working long range locator made from modifications and improvements to the old Alonso pistol detector. The problem is his solution for long range detection using the Alonso method requires micro-adjustments which are nearly impossible for people who don't have the equipment to calibrate them the way he does. Still, you can buy the detectors he designed to locate up to 30 meters distance from the Crypton company: http://crypton.com.gr/

Also be sure to read his posts about his solution to long range locating using the Alonso method, and building a locator that finds only gold... http://www.longrangelocators.com/for...ad.php?t=18956

About putting larger coils on a metal detector:
Larger coils can probe deeper than small coils generally. However, when you put a larger coil on a metal detector, you also lose the sensitivity that smaller coils have for finding small metal objects, such as necklaces made from tiny chain links, and small nuggets, etc. Large coils are generally used for finding large metal objects that are deeper, such as meteorites or buried cannons, old trash dumps, large ore bodies etc. I've seen home-built coils with up to 5-ft diameter on PI machines. But that is general. There are probably some specialty large coils that do other things besides find large deep objects. There are limits to what kind of coil you can put on a metal detector. The electronic properties of the large coil must be compatible with the detector you are using. This is why it is most often done with PI machines, which are easier to match. VLF detectors can also be fitted with large coils, but these are more difficult to build and balance. You may want to look in the Geotech forums for some help about the kind of treasure hunting you want to do. They have a number of threads where people show how they connected large coils to PI detectors to hunt for deeper treasures. You will also find some of the brightest metal detecting engineers in the world posting in the Geotech forums - http://www.geotech1.com/forums/forum.php

Best Wishes,
J_P

[aft_72005]

Some guy from the LRL forum leaked out his secret for how to find things without using rods.... maybe not a million times more efficient, but lots of fun for a pastime....

http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showpost.php?p=102623&postcount=214

"I can find a signal line without rods. I hold my arms out from my sides and relax my wrists so my hands point down somewhat. I call it the scarecrow stance. Then I walk around the transmitter (arms parallel to signal line) until I feel the psychic electricity. I can't pinpoint the target with this method, just the signal line. I use the Revelation Locator Rod. There is no other rod that has as low stiction. It has an extremely low start-up torque threshold that borders on the infinite. Of course it's not, but it's imperceptible".

Best Wishes,
J_P

hi JP
after pass long time , i am happy meet you again here .

[leviterande]

Interesting, I got a feeling as well that Andreas may have a real working idea. but not 100% sure.

Coming from an area quite far from gold hunting, I have researched also old articles, scientists papers , (of course not related to treasure hunting) that could indicate the ability to detect at large ranges. nothing exact at all of course. Do you know any of these sources , you know the "not so much talked about methods" , or a name of a scientist or these methods known for possible use in LRL? I ask because you said this :

But there are real long range locators that do really find long time buried metals such as gold, silver, copper, bronze, aluminum and others reliably from a long distance. These are not available for the general public to buy, and you will not find anything published about this technology in any treasure hunting forum.


or did you just refer to Andreas?

Best Regards
Karl l.

[Mike(Mont)]

yeah, I agree--You should get a metal detector because like the other skeptics you have convinced yourself the MFD's "can't possible work". Never even tried one? That's a classic example of the Natural Selection process--you made your choice on a skeptic's word. Every one of those skeptics is a failed dowser.

I've been over this many times. If you want to learn L-rods you need some form of meditation. Just those simple yoga breathing exercises where you count to five on inhale, and count to five on exhale. The idea here is to shut down the left-side brain, what I call the skeptic side.

[leviterande]

yeah, I agree--You should get a metal detector because like the other skeptics you have convinced yourself the MFD's "can't possible work". Never even tried one? That's a classic example of the Natural Selection process--you made your choice on a skeptic's word. Every one of those skeptics is a failed dowser.

I've been over this many times. If you want to learn L-rods you need some form of meditation. Just those simple yoga breathing exercises where you count to five on inhale, and count to five on exhale. The idea here is to shut down the left-side brain, what I call the skeptic side.

You got me really wrong, I never ever said what you just accused me of ! hehe. While I see that there seems to be no available remote long range locator, I can assure you that there is and should be a way somehow, there must be. Of course elements must have special properties. it is just there is a huge amount of fakers/fooled ones out there . but there is a true method and the question is where and how. you get me? one more point.

I dont do dowsing. I know how dowsing works and yes it is real and not fantasy I have scientific evidence. I can assure you that. And yes you must be a sensitive person. thats why not everyone is doing it. but I wont get into that.

. However, dowsing, cant remote detect as far as the extremely extensive research showed me, maybe I am wrong I hope.. So for anyone who has some device with some reliable evidence by all means I want to see it. It is just there is too much junk out there not just in this LRL world, I have seen the insane fraud and misinformation in other areas , not just treasure hunting , free energy, new theories, ormus .. etc you name it.. I have analysed a lot of data and most of it is rubbish sadly but I know there is a real working system. If it was black or white for me , life would be so much easier....

Meanwhile in my hunt for LRL , of course I want to still hunt with an improved metal detector.

Best regards
Karl

[WM6]

Just those simple yoga breathing exercises where you count to five on inhale, and count to five on exhale...

..... till you start to hallucinate and then you get clear vision of all hidden treasure in circle of 100 miles, even without MFD.