Solve the circuit...

[Qiaozhi]

Regardless of anyone's opinions of dowsing or LRLs I can understand that the purpose of this little circuit is to provide some tactile feedback to the dowser when the rods cross and touch each other. In fact, I would expect the user to receive a small electrical stimulus as the magnetic field in the relay collapses, assuming the handles of the rods are not insulated.

However, even the most amateurish electronics engineer can readily see that this circuit as it stands is not a good implementation, and hence Carl's comment that it was "crap". Any design that shorts out the battery as part of it's operation is not a good design, unless it's purpose is to discharge the battery, which (in this case) presumably was not the intention. An alternative method I can think of would be to use a vibrating mechanism, similar to those found in mobile phones or video game controllers. Personally I wouldn't be too keen to use a device that would give me the shock treatment. It would be a bit like Chinese water torture, as you wouldn't know when the next shock was coming.

[Esteban]

I try all!!!

Qiaozhi, you mention a vibrating mechanism. Some years ago I had the fix idea of making a vibrating LRL I can "eliminate" in part the famous "ideomotor effect". So, I decide to put a minimotor inside a LRL rod, wich actuates as vibratory mechanism. See the image.

A day, in "normal circumstance" (motor in off) don't obtain any movement of the rod. But battery key in on, a small movement was produced 10-15 seconds after and the antenna signalize a site (the landlord said me that another person with LRL rods don't obtain "signal" in his patio). I walk 15 meters and the rod turns back in X site. Check the site with my Bounty Hunter and found at 15 cm depth an old copper buckle, exactly in the point the rod turns. Coincidence? This is my "solution" for all us!!!

[Dell Winders]

Regardless of anyone's opinions of dowsing or LRLs I can understand that the purpose of this little circuit is to provide some tactile feedback to the dowser when the rods cross and touch each other. In fact, I would expect the user to receive a small electrical stimulus as the magnetic field in the relay collapses, assuming the handles of the rods are not insulated.

Qiaozhi, I already asked, Carl. Apparently that is not the reason. Dell

Originally Posted by Dell Winders
When you field tested the unit, did you experience a mild shock, or tingling in your hands when you walked through the "field" of the signal line leading to the target? Dell

No, not at all. - Carl

[Carl-NC]

Folks, I don't know of any independent dealer anywhere that is responsible for the content of a manufacturers product.

My comments concern the LRLs you sell under your own name, not White's metal detectors, or Zond GPR, or even Vernell's garbage. If I open up a White's metal detector, and discover a relay that intentionally shorts out the battery, then I will blame White's, not the dealer.

So are you, or are you not, responsible for the LRLs sold with the label "Dell Systems" on them?

[Carl-NC]

In fact, I would expect the user to receive a small electrical stimulus as the magnetic field in the relay collapses, assuming the handles of the rods are not insulated.

The handles are mostly insulated, but you still won't get a zap, since all the current will flow through the rods and not your hands. You are merely touching both sides of a dead short.

[Carl-NC]

Here is a pic of the L-rods along with the black box that contains the Rapid Discharge Oscillator. A piece of lamp cord with an audio connector plugs into a jack on the black box. Also shown are the ground probes made from PVC, brass rods, and lamp cord. See the VR800 report for a closer look at the L-rods & the probes.

[Dell Winders]

Carl, I see you are finally showing what your deception game is about. How many ways and how many more years are you going to keep rehashing your outdated reports to try to get people to believe the skeptic Cult lies degrading my honesty and integrity?

So are you, or are you not, responsible for the LRLs sold with the label "Dell Systems" on them?]

Not, for the content, if I am not the manufacturer. I've already said that.

Boy, that product is old. Do the parts still work?
Carl, The VR-800 has a white label on the back that provides the name of the manufacturer, Vernell, inc. Did you miss seeing that in all these years?

The name Dell Systems, is also used by Dell computers. They won't accept responsibility for the content of products manufactured by another company either.

I do accept dealer responsibility, If, the customer purchased the product from me? Dell

[Qiaozhi]

The handles are mostly insulated, but you still won't get a zap, since all the current will flow through the rods and not your hands. You are merely touching both sides of a dead short.

Hi Carl,

OK - I can see from the photo that the handles are insulated. However, even if they were not I would expect to receive a small shock, as I doubt the rods are creating a perfect short. Have you tried holding the metal of the rods and touching lightly together?

[Qiaozhi]

I try all!!!

Qiaozhi, you mention a vibrating mechanism. Some years ago I had the fix idea of making a vibrating LRL I can "eliminate" in part the famous "ideomotor effect". So, I decide to put a minimotor inside a LRL rod, wich actuates as vibratory mechanism. See the image.

A day, in "normal circumstance" (motor in off) don't obtain any movement of the rod. But battery key in on, a small movement was produced 10-15 seconds after and the antenna signalize a site (the landlord said me that another person with LRL rods don't obtain "signal" in his patio). I walk 15 meters and the rod turns back in X site. Check the site with my Bounty Hunter and found at 15 cm depth an old copper buckle, exactly in the point the rod turns. Coincidence? This is my "solution" for all us!!!

Hi Esteban,

That's it! Don't you agree it's a much better solution than shorting out the battery?
Apart from the buckle, how many other items have you suceessfully detected?

[Dell Winders]

Qiaozhi, when folks use Rods to meter a "field" they try not to touch them together. Does that make sense?

If I remember correctly, the VR-800 instructions clearly state that it will short the battery if the rods touch while they are plugged into the belt unit. I'm Sorry you weren't informed. Dell

[Carl-NC]

Carl, The VR-800 has a white label on the back that provides the name of the manufacturer, Vernell, inc. Did you miss seeing that in all these years?

Oh no, I saw the label... pictured below*. Funny, it only says "Dell Omnitron", nothing about Vernell.

The name Dell Systems, is also used by Dell computers. They won't accept responsibility for the content of products manufactured by another company either.

Really? Are you sure? Most of the components they use to build computers are manufactured by other companies. It's been my experience that if a component goes bad and it's under warranty, Dell will replace it, even though they did not manufacture it.

- Carl

* This is not the VR800 I own, which also says "Dell Omnitron" on the label. I've removed the model # & serial # info, as the owner wishes to remain anonymous.

[Carl-NC]

Have you tried holding the metal of the rods and touching lightly together?

Don't recall whether I touched them lightly or not... probably did at one time or another... just got buzzing from the relay, no electrical sensation at all.

The device has been returned to its owner, so I would have to build one to do any further testing.

- Carl

[Seeker]

[quote=Esteban]I try all!!!

Hi Esteban,
I will try to build your construction and check how it work.
So, can I use for motor a little vibration module from GSM unit and for better turning of rod a little ball-bearing from PC harddisc(diameter 10mm)? For rod I will use telescopic antenna about 400mm.In this case I need only 1 battery 1,5V.
The handle will be Al.tube,80mm long,diameter 30mm.
What mast be frequency and amplitude of vibrations?

[Esteban]

Qiaozhi:

For me is more economic this motor arrangament than other showed here. The motor works when you press (all the moment of the "detection") the momentary switch, so is an economic option.

As the "theory" refers the LRL rods works via nervous system, so this vibrational movement produces some effect???

Another items was a nickel-copper coin from Argentina and a small silver cilinder (don't know piece of what it is). And this item I found where a "professional" dowser only found in same area dirty piece of bronze, rest.

I stop because don't have patience with it. I prefer experiment in electronic long range locator (really medium range).

[Esteban]

Seeker:

I use a simple tape record motor, think is 3,000 rpm. Is important that the case od the motor be in contact with the tube for to transmit the vibration to the hand. I use PVC tube as handle. I use two bearing-balls and for to center better the rod. See the drawing. Also you can build LRL rod by Carl here:

http://www.thunting.com/cgi-bin/geot...lrl1/index.dat