Solve the circuit...

[Qiaozhi]

Qiaozhi, when folks use Rods to meter a "field" they try not to touch them together. Does that make sense?

If I remember correctly, the VR-800 instructions clearly state that it will short the battery if the rods touch while they are plugged into the belt unit. I'm Sorry you weren't informed. Dell

If the rods do not actually touch, then I fail to understand the purpose of this circuit.
For anything to happen at all, you would need to hold down the red button on the unit, otherwise ... basically - nothing. :confused:
Also - pressing down the red button lights the LED before shorting out the battery, and then repeating this cycle until the battery is discharged.
So what is it supposed to do?????
Doesn't make any sense to me.

[Seeker]

[quote=Esteban]Seeker:

I use a simple tape record motor, think is 3,000 rpm

Hi,Esteban, do you place on axis of motor some eccentric mass to get vibration or there is normal motor self vibration?
In 3000rpm you have giroscopic moment exept vibration,that will move your hand and turn the rod.This is "motor effect"
To get purely vibration I think to use little speaker(piezo) and 555, and I can change frequency and amplitude of vibration.

[Qiaozhi]

Dell Winders
Qiaozhi, when folks use Rods to meter a "field" they try not to touch them together. Does that make sense?

If I remember correctly, the VR-800 instructions clearly state that it will short the battery if the rods touch while they are plugged into the belt unit. I'm Sorry you weren't informed. Dell

If the rods do not actually touch, then I fail to understand the purpose of this circuit.
For anything to happen at all, you would need to hold down the red button on the unit, otherwise ... basically - nothing. :confused:
Also - pressing down the red button lights the LED before shorting out the battery, and then repeating this cycle until the battery is discharged.
So what is it supposed to do?????
Doesn't make any sense to me.

OK - I've thought about this a bit more, and now I'm certain this is a really stupid circuit. :mad:
If (as Dell states above) the VR-800 instructions clearly state that it will short the battery if the rods touch - then why the hell are they connected across the switch????? :confused:
If they're not allowed to touch, then absolutely nothing happens. However, previously Dell asked Carl:

When you field tested the unit, did you experience a mild shock, or tingling in your hands when you walked through the "field" of the signal line leading to the target? Dell

This could only happen if these two points are true:
1. The rods are allowed to touch. (Carl correctly states that, as you are actually touching both sides of a dead short, you would not "feel" the back emf from the relay coil. Although I'm not certain you wouldn't get a slight shock because the connection is not a perfect short.
2. The handles must not be insulated.
Since the former is a no-no (according the manual) and the latter is untrue, then..... I don't know what to say.
Sorry Dell (and I understand quite clearly that you are not the designer) but it does appear to be "crap" after all.

[Qiaozhi]

[quote=Seeker]

Seeker:

I use a simple tape record motor, think is 3,000 rpm

Hi,Esteban, do you place on axis of motor some eccentric mass to get vibration or there is normal motor self vibration?
In 3000rpm you have giroscopic moment exept vibration,that will move your hand and turn the rod.This is "motor effect"
To get purely vibration I think to use little speaker(piezo) and 555, and I can change frequency and amplitude of vibration.

Hi Seeker,
If you look closely at Esteban's drawing, you will notice that the motor is in a vertical position. In this case the device can be moved quite easily from side-to-side without feeling the gyroscopic effect. Of course, if you tilt the rods away from the vertical, then they would feel some resistance. So the important point here is that the motor must be vertical and not horizontal, otherwise your statement would be true.

[Seeker]

Hi Qiaozhi,you are not right.
Exact the vertical position of axis is the best position for act of giroscopic moment.Becouse the rod is not balansed if you little turn hand ,giro reaction will turn at 90 degrees direction and axis will divert and center of mass of rod will turn rod left or right.

[Esteban]

Hi Seeker, Qiaozhi and all:

When I decide to put a motor inside the handle of the rod I don't think in any correction of the tendence to change the rpm in the motor causes by the inclination angle. I only thing in a kind of vibration (really soft) in my hand and what happens with this.

[Seeker]

Hi Esteban,
some good things, people find accidentally
Do you know something about bifurcation?
When you insert vibration in system hand-rod , you increase sensitivity of all system.
I think if you replace motor with tuning generator and piezospeaker ,you will reach better results. Do you need schematic ?

[Esteban]

Hi Esteban,
some good things, people find accidentally
Do you know something about bifurcation?
When you insert vibration in system hand-rod , you increase sensitivity of all system.
I think if you replace motor with tuning generator and piezospeaker ,you will reach better results. Do you need schematic ?

Hope a simple 555 is useful in your interesting suggestion, maybe connecting to a LM386 with volume control. Or you know a specific schematic for this purpose?

No, accidentally, have a fix idea in it.

[Dell Winders]

Sorry Dell (and I understand quite clearly that you are not the designer) but it does appear to be "crap" after all.

Sorry Qiaozhi, I don't speak, or understand EE language, and as an outsider, I had a different impression of what "crap" was supposed to look like.

No, I am not the designer, or manufacturer of items in the photo Carl, has displayed, and creditited me for. Scientist I know, don't form conclusions based on presumption, assumption, stupid inference/ implication games, or money challenge publicity scams. EE's posting here would do well to research & test before jumping to inferences or conclusions. and practice forming conclusions based on fact, least, they reveal themselves as practicioners of pretend science.

Fact, can only be based on each individuals knowledge and true personal experience. If you have not made the effort to learn what others have already learned, through your own trial & error, or shared the same experience that others have reported, then you do not have the facts to base any conclusions whatsoever on.

Carl's prejudice, and childish inference games do not necessarily have any basis in truth, or fact, as he has already amply demonstrated. Qiaozhi, so far you "appear" to be Parroting Carl? At first I thought you were unwittingly suckered into his idiotic Inference & Implication game. That benefit of a doubt is subsiding. I hope you prove more intelligent than to publicly practice the pseudo science of spectulative judgement. Dell

[Seeker]

Hope a simple 555 is useful in your interesting suggestion, maybe connecting to a LM386 with volume control. Or you know a specific schematic for this purpose?

No, accidentally, have a fix idea in it.

Hi Esteban,
Look at the picture.I think you don't need in LM386 and volume control for beginning.
If you want it , insert only Pot. 5k between piezo and pin3.
Frequency you can calculate.Example for motor 3000rpm = 50Hz , C=4700nF and a little adjust with pot.100k.By pot.100k you can change frequecy (C=4700nF) from 31 to 3100Hz
Piezo mast remaking. Use epoxi glue to fix a nut M2 at brass side of disc, in centrum.Be careful when solder the wires to piezo.This process mast be short , to avoid overheat of piezo. If you use SMD elements, PCB will be in diameter as piezo.
This is all.
Good Luck.

[Qiaozhi]

Hi Qiaozhi,you are not right.
Exact the vertical position of axis is the best position for act of giroscopic moment.Becouse the rod is not balansed if you little turn hand ,giro reaction will turn at 90 degrees direction and axis will divert and center of mass of rod will turn rod left or right.

Maybe we are talking at cross purposes here, but the motor must be in the vertical position (as shown by Esteban) otherwise you will experience some precession of the gyroscope. In the vertical position the user can freely move the device forwards, backwards, up, down and from side to side without precession occuring. This will not be the case if the users twists the motor in his hand to an angle away from the vertical. However, if you position the motor horizontally, then moving the device from left to right will cause the motor (gyro) to precess. Try it, if you don't believe me.

[Qiaozhi]

Sorry Qiaozhi, I don't speak, or understand EE language, and as an outsider, I had a different impression of what "crap" was supposed to look like.

No, I am not the designer, or manufacturer of items in the photo Carl, has displayed, and creditited me for. Scientist I know, don't form conclusions based on presumption, assumption, stupid inference/ implication games, or money challenge publicity scams. EE's posting here would do well to research & test before jumping to inferences or conclusions. and practice forming conclusions based on fact, least, they reveal themselves as practicioners of pretend science.

Fact, can only be based on each individuals knowledge and true personal experience. If you have not made the effort to learn what others have already learned, through your own trial & error, or shared the same experience that others have reported, then you do not have the facts to base any conclusions whatsoever on.

Carl's prejudice, and childish inference games do not necessarily have any basis in truth, or fact, as he has already amply demonstrated. Qiaozhi, so far you "appear" to be Parroting Carl? At first I thought you were unwittingly suckered into his idiotic Inference & Implication game. That benefit of a doubt is subsiding. I hope you prove more intelligent than to publicly practice the pseudo science of spectulative judgement. Dell

I don't think there is any presumption, inference or parroting going on here. This simple circuit has clearly been "designed" (or perhaps that's the wrong word ) by someone with little knowledge of electronics. No presumption or guesswork is needed to clearly see that it is a "crap" design. It doesn't appear to have any useful function, apart from discharging the battery.
Anyway I still fail to understand why you are so upset about a circuit that, as you said:

No, I am not the designer, or manufacturer of items in the photo Carl, has displayed, and creditited me for.

I am beginning to think there is a closer connection than you wish to reveal. :confused:
Also, I do not comprehend your references to "pretend science" and "pseudo science" when refering to either Carl, myself, or other EEs on this forum, as I believed that was more in your domain.

[Dell Winders]

I am beginning to think there is a closer connection than you wish to reveal. :confused:

See, there you go publicly making presumption, and inference, just like, Carl. No fact, No Science!

Also, I do not comprehend your references to "pretend science" and "pseudo science" when refering to either Carl, myself, or other EEs on this forum, as I believed that was more in your domain.

Carl, has spoken authoritively of things he does not know and has never experieced for himself as being truth, or fact.

Qiaozhi,I do not lie or pretend. I am what I am.
A Kentucky Hillbilly, with a 6th grade formal education in country schools. Sometimes there was one room with only one teacher who taught all grades 1 thru 8. The subjects were the 3 R's, Read'in, Rite'in and Rithmetic, and above all, honesty, which at one time was an atribute which was respected, but obviously not here. I have no ego to get in the way of the truth, so laugh if you must. Dell

[Seeker]

Hi Qiaozhi,
we speak about different things - controlled and non-contolled movement.Take a brimful cup with water and walk around.When you make turns ,you think about water and take care,make turns slow under control,known about giro-reaction,but when walk ahead your attention is on the road.Then the hand make a little non-controlled turns ,what is "ideomotor movement", the giroscopic reaction of vertical axis can precess in two vertical plane.If the axis is horizontal, accross your direction ahead,left or right turns of arm precess the axis in vertical plane of rod.But turns in another vertical plane will be without precession.
Ofcourse, on diagram of Esteban,we can add a buzzer with sensor to control of inclinations of axis
Or put all dowsing rod in float and walk around with wash-basin, like ancient Chinese compass

Best regards

[Carl-NC]

I am beginning to think there is a closer connection than you wish to reveal.

A few years ago, an interesting individual, posting on TNet under the name "Toto," wrote about The Parable of Player #27. During a particular play in a football game, the referee threw a penalty flag. Before the ref could even reveal the nature of the infraction, must less the guilty party, player #27 ran up to the ref pleading, "I didn't do it! It wasn't me!" Player #27 was called for holding.

Likewise, as soon as I posted the Rapid Discharge Oscillator, Dell ran out pleading, "I didn't do it! It's not my fault!" Like Player #27, Dell implicated himself as the guilty party... I didn't need to say a word.

Dell, you sure don't seem to be too proud of the equipment you've sold over the years. Every time something of yours gets brought up, you do everything possible to distance yourself from the device, try to blame it on other people, and even attack the person who brought it up. Why is that? Why don't you just say, "Hey, I recognize that... I used to sell them, and here's what it does..."?

Which brings up a prior question... "Is this device garbage, or does it serve a Useful Purpose?" If it serves a Useful Purpose, what is it? Another way of asking the same question is: "When you sold this device, what did you tell the buyer it was supposed to do?"

- Carl