Radionics

[hung]

I'll try to spend more time on the technical forums, but I'll still be monitoring this LRL nonsense for any misinformation

Except for the word 'nonsense' from your part, that's exactly why I'm here too.
To avoid any misinformation as well. And there are many.

PS. I realize I can't discuss the radionics topic here unfortunately. As I thought, many here ignore it completely and rely on a completely wrong concept of backing themselves in highshcool physics to try to cope with it.
Now I remember one of the nuclear physicists , my friend, telling me 12 years ago:
"This discovery we made was possible due to our open mind and deep research in this area. You don't imagine how envious and violent my group of colleagues(physics) get when they don't understand something which should be based on classic principles".
Wow. He was absolutely right as I see this is a reality in all cases.
And as I don't feel like sharing the info I got this way, good luck to whoever came here to read about radionics and always research. Never limit your horizons.
Regards.

[Dell Winders]

The proclaimed Gods are angry?

It appears that the person(s) who pretend to be all knowing God(s) , (or wannabe dictator?) in wisdom, (or lack of) has judged us lowly earthly beings as, nonsensical, and dis-honest, and bestows condemenation on our humble efforts to share what we have learned, and practice by provable examples, with our fellow humans.

These Gods of denial and condemenation of fact & truth, who cannot accept the premise that what I speak of has already been done, declare they are giving up and retreating to their own Boxed in world of electronics and metal detectors.

I doubt their word, but let's hope it's faithfully kept. Then, perhaps reality and truth of the real world of deep buried Treasure Hunting, and existing events of personal human experience and knowledge will prevail without intentional agitation and mocking from those who demonstrate a lesser knowledge and lack of practical field experience of the subjects of Remote Sensing Locating, or Dowsing. Dell

:confused: :confused: :confused:
Quiaozhi,friend,
cant you stop wasting your time here?
You are aproved to be conversant in stuff we are interested - metal detectors and electronics.
Than why dont you spend more time on threads like "Modifications","Schematics" etc...
We can take much more benefit from your knowledge and mind there, instead wasting
time,nervs and health here on such nonsences like "radionics"...ha,ha,ha...
What a nonsences???!!! hung and dell already showed as persistent, and nobody
(except administrator) cant stop them. Talking here with them,you are just giving
more "life" to their nonsences.
I realised that some time ago,therefore i am not coming here any more to bug my self with
stupid nonsences and anoying kind of people here.
Fact that carl deleted some of my posts cleary shows that "they" are even protected and freely
can spread nonsences more and more here?!
Quiaozhi, friend, cant you see that their main idea is to turn this technical forum
in to funny place,to destroy this forum credibility,level....
My (provoked) "anatognism" with carl didnt put me out of this place,no,not at all.
If i wanted to continue with my "style" of dealing with those(hung,dell...) i could register
under 100 nicks more and really bash and bug them to "death" here. Nobody can stop me!
For sure not carl...But i am not that persistent,i already saw that
talking with those people (hung,dell) is wasting time and nothing else.
They are just that "kind of people", you can not change them. Best way is to ignore
them,their nonsences and stupid claims and posts.
I am not vindictive and i do not want to sound ironic, but let us be reminded on my
previous claims about mineoro products!?
Let us read very first pages of threads with mineoro subjects...!?
Let see Michael's first posts there. Let see and read Michaels and mine argue,name calling,
"war" in the past.
I was trying to prevent Michael to waste his money on fg... device.
Without success! So finally Michael bought fg...and...???
Next Michael's post were full with doubts!?
I could answer him than, something in manner: "...i told you.." and than laugh to death!
But i did not!
Obviously he made mistake,he wasted money....his problem. I am still sorry about that,
but it is too late to fix it.
And hung? When Michael posted doubts about fg...what was hungs answer than? Ha,ha,ha!!!
Same thing with Ranger teller,same thing with "radionics", same thing with all hung's and
dell's philosophy so far!
Empty claims,pseudo science,populism,bogus...NOTHING!
hung is not easy to "beat".Simply he is clever,he is not stupid.
He already visited so many internet sites,
read already much of "populistic,pseudosienced" publications,same as dell.
The difference between hung and dell is only one; dell is long-term dowser,already
very experienced in "people cheating",very tricky man,also very clever!
hung,on other side is member of mineoro "making money" team,he is "working" here,on this forum.
He takes percent of every sold mineoro device,cose he advertises those,"loud mouthing"
everywhere on the internet forums under various nicks.
So hungs behavior is understandable. Simply,man is making money here! Bravo hung!
But only one thing is buging me here, still;
as academic mind i have to say that "those" peoples hardest weapon is populism and
pseudoscience. Huge percent of forum visitors and memebers are amateurs, amateur
constructors,enthusiasts. Very few of those are ee's with complete knowledge involved
in subjects here. So,if we put some wrong,bogus idea in "populistic" form and support it
with only pieces of true science(carefully chosen pieces) and than post that as
many times hung did......well,than huge number of mentioned amateurs and laics will
"bite the hook" and start to beleive in those nonsences! Harm is done!
Even if some member decide to check simillar claims,he will be in position to check
only those "carefully chosen pieces" taken from real science. By checking those,he will
be in a lot of doubts about everything. Slowly,step by step he will start to beleive
in every nonsence ever posted here by hung and dell.....and few people more.
So, Quiaozhi be clever, leave this threads and come to "technical" threads,involve
yourself more in real problems. Let us (this forum) benefit from you knowledge.
Leave this nonsences.Leave "those" people alone. Let them argue and spread nonsenced
philosophy among theirselves....ha,ha,ha...
Rudy...you too, also!
Michael,although you involved yourself deep here,it is not too late to recover. You look
as very honest man to me,at the end. Do not let yourself be missleaded any more!
Save yourself Michael. Money you wasted on fg...is nothing compared with wrong ideas and
pseudoscience you are dangered to be "sucked" in!
************************************************** *****
I think you addresed this to me and some of my previous posts:
"About this as I remember in previous discussions in different threads some members believed
high frequencies (at MHZ or GHZ scales can spread or penetrate appropriately in soil and ground)
now I see you are in versus.you believe in VLFs in Hz scale!!! 2 days before I got acquainted
with a genius in physic...."

"some members believed high frequencies..."
First,Michael, i do NOT "beleive"! All my "beleifs" i DO rely on knowledge i accepted through
years of my study! Second, i upgraded my previous "academic" knowledge during 25 years of
REAL working with REAL problems on REAL projects!
I do consider my self (also aproven by so many relevant experts worldvide) as very conversant
to talk about RF, ...high freq., low freq., and many more....
"Spreading" in soil....huh, this question is too complex to explain in a few words. I should
write whole book( i already did several...) even to approximate to you all eventual aspects
of this "problematic". Do i need that? Do you need that? Are you gonna understand that? (as
amateur,laic..) Of course NOT!
I rather choose to use few sentences and explain in short terms that high freq. CAN NOT
PENETRATE into soil. Period.
But,i presume that thing what really confuses you and few other members here is fact that
high freq. is mentioned many times in so many advertisements where some "high tech" equipment
is subject. Usually, things are not adecuate explained there.So if laic as yourself see
that kind of claims, he can mix up facts out of main context.
For example i can name some true and science-supported tehniques if we talk about "long"
range locating:
* GPR....Shortly, this technique uses reflection of HIGH FREQ. electromagentic ways(10MHz to
1000 MHZ and more...)...probably this confused you much!?
* Frequency Domain Electromagnetic
* Time Domain Electromagnetics
* Resistivity
* Magnetic (magnetic field measurements)
* Radiometric (gama radiation...)
* Seismic Reflection
* Gravity
And so on,and so on.....
"...We talked much about radio frequencies,...I asked him" do you admit RFs can travel on &
inside ground?" his A:" Yes, high frequencies do this much better, the lower the more difficult
" As I had made test myself by my RF generator; either in HZ or KHZ, asked his opinion about it.
he told : "it depends on power & amplification, in what power?" my A: " e.g. 100 Watt" his A:
" yes of course" My Q:" how far? some inches or 1 meter?"[here I knew answer based on my own
experience] his A:" no, much more, based on ground condition up to 100 or hundreds meters" I
added :" some people who claim are very experienced and knowledgeable in RF sciences, believe
that these kind of waves can go only up to some inches,.." He was surprised and told these are
axiom.His comments was exact conjoint to my EE friend comments...."

"...genius in physic..." ??? According to your short story,that man is far away of being any
kind of genius!!?? Lunatic maybe,but genius NOT!
Or maybe man is not lunatic,maybe he is genius. But,you as laic,can not talk with him properly.
You do not know how to ask proper questions. You are not awared of all aspects of that instant
problem? Think twice. Same thing here,on this forum.Laics are trying to make "serious"
conversation with experts!? Ts,ts,ts...!
By this i do not mean to offend you or anybody else here.These are the facts!
Try to spend more time with that "genius" of yours and try to further explain real problems
and questions in this subject(long range locating) to him.Later you will gain same answers and
conlusions as you may read from my posts...
"Ad hock" questions,answers and conclusions are just helping populistic&pseudo-science to
expand and extend nonsences more and more here!
Physic as real science(i mean pure physic) is dealing with abstract concepts and dimensions.
Calculations and formulas in Physic are more academic than you can imagine, my friend.
It is so easy to prove many things,using pure physic and mathematics, but in real life those
proofs remain only academic and have role to be standing points from which man can go further,
sort of basis for further revelations. Of course, mainly, physic relly on easy provable facts with
fundamentals from real life,unlike any pseudoscience...
To understand a bit more,you should return to school,read some books....but hey,you should though
about that before!
At the end it is very good to have here people like hung and dell posting their nonsences
as usually they do. Very funny posts. I do enjoy reading those from time to time!
Whole dell's and eventual hung's "experience",seems to be based on missunderstanding of
subject itself!? "Playing" with dowsers tools,dell adopted very wrong ideas during all those
years on the field. Sorry for you dell! Very sorry!
Illiteracy in any kind of real science put dell and hung in position to estblish very wrong ideas
and to start a quite new pseudoscience here!?
They are victims! That's why i do feel very sorry about them!
They gonna spend whole life in missunderstanding in everything what surrounds them in nature.
I am very,very sorry for them! But hey! They are not stupid! They found way to earn some
money from all those illiteracy! Bravo boys! But not fair! Not honest! Think about that!

I do not come here to post any more,but i am here all the time. Every day.
hung,dell,Michael,Quiaozhi,Rudy...happy new year to all of you.Best wishes anyway!
regards

[Qiaozhi]

It appears that the person(s) who pretend to be all knowing God(s) , (or wannabe dictator?) in wisdom, (or lack of) has judged us lowly earthly beings as, nonsensical, and dis-honest, and bestows condemenation on our humble efforts to share what we have learned, and practice by provable examples, with our fellow humans.

These Gods of denial and condemenation of fact & truth, who cannot accept the premise that what I speak of has already been done, declare they are giving up and retreating to their own Boxed in world of electronics and metal detectors.

I doubt their word, but let's hope it's faithfully kept. Then, perhaps reality and truth of the real world of deep buried Treasure Hunting, and existing events of personal human experience and knowledge will prevail without intentional agitation and mocking from those who demonstrate a lesser knowledge and lack of practical field experience of the subjects of Remote Sensing Locating, or Dowsing. Dell

No-one is "retreating" to any type of "Boxed in world". It's a tactical withdrawal in order to do something more useful, rather than attempting to lead the technically ignorant out of a world of pseudoscience and into the real world.

With a brain the size of a planet, no wonder you can carry on your treasure hunting business by working at home. That's what you call extremely long range locating (ELRL).

[michael]

Michael, I believe that for equal power input, low frequency RF penetrates more deeply than high frequency RF.

Thank you Rudy, Ok, good, but how deep?
we assume a 5 KHz or 5 HZ Fr., with 100 W output and 30 V amplitude.

Robert,firstly thanks for some of your compassions for me.
secondly taunting, belittling and using some terms: GPR, Time Domain Electromagnetics,... are not luminous and convincing answers. please give a simple and bright answer to my question: Can one VLF RF (e.g. 5 KHZ with 100 watt out and 30V amplitude) be spread in soil up to 4 meters? is this a dilemma? please don't twist the matter, albeit before in one post I asked you.
without getting any answer.
thirdly :The guy was really genius and his descriptions were thoroughly conjoint to my another friend. then you believe both were laic? Whoever don't agree with you, is laic? what a logic!!! Since when one guy who have scholarship admission from Cambridge university is a laic?!!
Robert, we presume you aren't a sheer theorisian and as you frequently claimed, you are 25 years experienced in RFs and very up-to-date, OK, well, Are you really able to paralyze or mislead one spy-satellite in detecting a target on ground e.g. launch pad of rockets? a bit explain please.
please don't dodge through answer my questions, I'm looking for them.

[Dell Winders]

Now you are being facetious. You are using the terms "quantative scientific experience" and "mental dowsing" to support each other in the same sentence.
How could I possibly have more experience than you with mental dowsing? Once you understand the real reason that the pendulum moves as it does, then it becomes a pointless exercise (much like the ouija board) as you have clearly demonstrated in your postings. Firstly you create a long list of possible sites by unconciously observing clues on the map, and then in a sudden case of amnesia, ignore the ones that did not yield results. In case you've forgotten the URL :confusedwhich you posted only yesterday in this thread) here it is ->
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...c,24475.0.html

Thanks for supplying the link.

Sorry, I fail to understand the twisted logic that admits you know little or nothing about mental dowsing, then in the same post you proceed to tell an experienced Dowser what they are doing, and how they are doing it.

I can understand why you have had no success at Dowsing ,but it serems you are more interested in criticizing, mocking, character assination, and being dis-respectful to those who know what they are talking about, than learning facts and truth about the subject.

2. Someone like yourself, who has a vested interest in promoting this dowsing nonsense, will never be open minded enough to accept that they are wrong, even in the face of overwhelming evidence.

Absolute lying BS. I have no vested interest in promoting Dowsing.

Firstly you create a long list of possible sites by unconciously observing clues on the map, and then in a sudden case of amnesia, ignore the ones that did not yield results.

More imaginary BS, demonstrating your ignorance of the subject.

You have demonstrated you are totally out of your field of knowledge about Dowsing & LRL, so don't pretend to know what you are talking about.

I don't mock your electronics ability, or pretend to know more about electronics than you, so stop being an agitator and playing God, and stick to sharing what you have experience with, and I will continue to do the same in sharing my field expereience with LRL, or Dowsing. Dell

[robert]

.

"...Can one VLF RF (e.g. 5 KHZ with 100 watt out and 30V amplitude) be spread in soil up to 4 meters? "

Depends of density and composition of soil....Generally - no way!


"Are you really able to paralyze or mislead one spy-satellite in detecting a target on ground e.g. launch pad of rockets? a bit explain please."

No comment!


regards

[Qiaozhi]

Thanks for supplying the link.

Sorry, I fail to understand the twisted logic that admits you know little or nothing about mental dowsing, then in the same post you proceed to tell an experienced Dowser what they are doing, and how they are doing it.

Hmmm... an interesting response. It appears that I have pressed on a sensitive nerve.
Mental dowsing is exactly described by its name - "mental".

I can understand why you have had no success at Dowsing ,but it serems you are more interested in criticizing, mocking, character assination, and being dis-respectful to those who know what they are talking about, than learning facts and truth about the subject.

I already know the facts. Dowsing is a trick of the mind.
Also, I am not interested in name calling. My criticisms are aimed at dowsing and LRLs, and other misleading information that is presented as being factual and based on solid scientific principles, when it is in truth nothing but BS.

Absolute lying BS. I have no vested interest in promoting Dowsing.

Does this mean you no longer sell LRLs and/or dowsing rods, and that you provide your dowsing services for free??

More imaginary BS, demonstrating your ignorance of the subject.

Are you now retracting the information you previously posted on Treasurenet? I have only reiterated your own verbage.

You have demonstrated you are totally out of your field of knowledge about Dowsing & LRL, so don't pretend to know what you are talking about.

As I said before, once you understand the real reason that the pendulum moves as it does, then it becomes a pointless exercise. Therefore it should be obvious that I am unlikely to practise any sort of dowsing (mental or otherwise) since it has more to do with the psychic world than the real world.

I don't mock your electronics ability, or pretend to know more about electronics than you, so stop being an agitator and playing God, and stick to sharing what you have experience with, and I will continue to do the same in sharing my field expereience with LRL, or Dowsing. Dell

On the front page of this website there is the following statement: "This is the first and only web site dedicated entirely to the technology of treasure hunting. The goal is to provide technical information on metal detectors, magnetometers, long range locators, and various types of geophysical surveying instruments."
The key words here are "provide technical information".
When the "technical information" provided is nothing more than gobbledygook, then you must expect critcism. When Esteban (for example) posts his LRL experiments here, I am genuinely interested in the results, but blatant pseudoscientific and spiritual/psychic nonesense is unacceptable.

[Rudy]

Thank you Rudy, Ok, good, but how deep?
we assume a 5 KHz or 5 HZ Fr., with 100 W output and 30 V amplitude.

Robert, I don't think anyone can tell you that anwer. There are just too many variables depending on the specific ground conditions (mineralization, how homogeneus the ground matrix is, moisture content,....). You can make some educated guesses since you are considering a frequency range used by VLF detectors, about how deep the RF would penetrate.

The estimate could be made by assuming the following:

1- The power of the RF energy pumped out by the VLF detector is on the order of 100 milliwatts, and you are talking about 100 Watts, or 1000 times more power.

2- Assume the ground is totatlly homogenuos (it isn't, but just assume it is).

3- The energy of the RF wave falls off as the square of the distance from the source.

BUT, that is only a small part of the problem. You haven't mentioned what detection scheme you plan to use. Something like is used in a VLF metal detector, a PI type of circuit, or something else.

The reason you are pumping the RF signal into the ground is because you want to detect a target and that is the biggest problem. The signal from the target is proportional to the amount of energy it receives from the transmitter. Since the transmitter signal is quickly diminishing as it penetrates the ground, the signal generated by the target will be very small for deep targets. That signal has to travel back to the surface where your detection equipment is and that signal will also be losing energy as the square of the distance it has to travel. At the same time, the mineralization present in the ground is also responding to the same RF signal you injected and is generating signals of its own. This is adding undersirable "noise" and for deep targets, the target signal would be totally hidden by this "noise" and become undetectable.

Notice that if you increase the transmitter power to penetrate further, you are also increasing the amount of "noise" that is being generated by the mineralization, so it doesn't help with detection. I am afraid that this becomes the limiting factor for detecting deep targets.

[michael]

Thank you for your answers especially you Rudy, special thank for patient explanations and useful information, much enlightening at least for me.

[Rudy]

Thank you for your answers especially you Rudy, special thank for patient explanations and useful information, much enlightening at least for me.

U-R-Welcome.

[Rudy]

Are you really sure about this Mr. Rudy?
That's why I say there's much more than meets the eye.
A reduction in antenna's size has been done before in a special case and it proved infinite advantage over the original design.
In the early 80's, a scottish professor named Maurice Hately and Fathl Kabbary were working a completely different antenna design. The great concept of this design was based on the premise that a magnetic field could be produced without a current flow in a wire (hey there, does it sound familiar?) They used the reveresed negative solution of Maxwell's fourth equation and proved that a magnetic field really exists between 2 capacitor plates when a RF voltage is applied.
Years and years later, I believe in the 90's, I think it was Kabbary who made a revolutionary design change in the antenna, employing a top which had funnel shape. This resulted in a design with only 21 feet tall in relation to the vertical design was replaced, 211 feet(!) in height. And later, tests demonstrated it had 800% advantage (about 9db) over the vertical one quarter wavelength design. This antenna was set in Egypt.
So the idea of requiring long antennas for whatever purpose, many times does not hold true.
If you only knew what can be done with 3 helmholtz coils/antennas... Never mind..

Hmm, I guess I had missed this post and didn't respond ... until now.
Yes, the cross field antenna you refer to uses the fringing electric field in a capacitor plate to generate a magnetic field. But quite a large electric field is required to do so. This could be used to make a smaller transmitting antena but you still have to cope with how to miniaturize a receiving antena. Ferrite antena? And you still have the hardest part to do, a method to discriminate the received signals between the desirable targets (gold/silver/platinum/...) and the surrounding junk.