Scientific Test of Dowsing

[Esteban]

Anyone can explain me:

1. Why in all war scenarios are involved dowsers of US Army for to find caves or tunnels? They are wrong?

2. Is dowsing a skill?

In my personal case, I see men who uses last generation detectors and I, with my homemade instruments, obtain more results in the same terrain.

The most of the time my ears are more accuracy than his instruments!

I think if this is OK for you, use it!

[Carl-NC]

Well, Hung, you've done it yet again. In all you wrote, you still failed to explain why my challenge protocol is not a valid, scientific way to test dowsing. All you said, basically, is you don't like it, and it's silly. That says a whole bunch of nothing.

Also, you continue to avoid my request...

Please explain a Right Procedure that will scientifically demonstrate the efficacy of dowsing.

All you've managed to do is say that skeptic tests are bad, and believer tests are good. That, again, is a whole bunch of nothing.

Sounds like Evans is a real whiner. If there were anything to his theories, he sure wouldn't bother rebutting his critics on his web site... he would just proceed to prove them wrong with outstanding scientific achievements. Reminds me of dowsers who constantly whine about skeptics, instead of going out and digging up all that gold they say they can find. In any case, except for your embracementEvans is irrelevant to dowsing, so I hope you don't waste any more time here trying to defend him.

I hope that next time you post, you can offer us a detailed, scientific protocol of how I might test someone who claims they can dowse for gold. I've found this is always a stumper question for dowsing proponents... all I ever hear are excuses and alibis, like your excuse that I must first believe in some kind of hokey pseudoscience before I can move to the next "stage". A dowser can either dowse, or he can't, regardless of my beliefs.

- Carl

[Qiaozhi]

Let's do this. I will chime in every time I find relevant to coment on relevant topics you might raise on the subject. Otherwise not.
In this case however to correct things I find not right. Personal view.




What scientific methods? The ones you seed throughout forums are silly probability games which don't show, indicate or prove anyting.



Yes I disagree. See above.



Carl, hundreds of scientific tests have already been performed even before you were born. Tests that involved lots of money, financial backing and superstructure, which you will never be able to replicate in this magnitude.
Despite of that your direction is totally wrong and will remain like that until you convince yourself litle games are not tests.

And it's always the same. Tests done by skeptics and tests done by proponents. The Kassel test you discussed here in the past is a skeptic test. So as you are a spoken skeptic, which results 'your audience' will expect to see?
For this, you don't even need to do it. Just stick with the skeptic test you like most.






First, are you saying you have not met one single person who could dowse so far? Wow. That's not surprising you don't know what dowsing is.
I thought you were in phase 1, where you know the phenomena but you are not sure about its consistency. But you show me you still did not reach that point.
So, I can point you one serious test of hundreds that have already been taken, which clearly shows a 96% rate of sucess for dowsers who could find water, when a sucess rate of 30-50% should be expected using conventional techiniques.

http://twm.co.nz/dowsing_jse_com.html

As you can see, an honest test. That's all.
Although it shows it's still in phase 1 in my opinion, as most of tests done so far. It's a test. Not an explanation. Not little games with rewards a la 'family feud'.
Phase 2 would explain the phenomena due to acess of knowledge which represents the basis for conclusions.



You keep insisting on the same question which I already answered. The efficacy of dowsing has already been demonstrated in minor or major conditions in tests as the one above. What you have to understand is that you have to acess areas of physics and biophysical matters before attempting to perform a phase 2 test.

See this report here. http://www.connect.ab.ca/~tylosky/
Much more objective than everything you tried to say up to now. Convince yourself that your tests will prove nothing the way they are done. Nothing. It will just expose the dowser you test to ridicule and corrode even more your reputation among proponents through the net.



Irrelevant chatter... I see.
Honestly, you don't know what you're saying. Probably irrelevant to you now as you still did not reach this stage yet. When you do we might talk.
I grant you you will have everything to gain if you check Earth's EM and biological interactions in human beings using the models I pointed out.

I'll probably return to this thread in 1 or 2 weeks.

In the whole of this long post you have completely failed to say anything remotely sensible.

[Carl-NC]

Anyone can explain me:

1. Why in all war scenarios are involved dowsers of US Army for to find caves or tunnels? They are wrong?

I'm not aware that the Army employs dowsers to find tunnels... if they do, it's a mighty poor way to find them.

2. Is dowsing a skill?

In my personal case, I see men who uses last generation detectors and I, with my homemade instruments, obtain more results in the same terrain.

The most of the time my ears are more accuracy than his instruments!

I think if this is OK for you, use it!

I agree, if dowsing "works" for you, then use it! Why in the world would you waste a single minute trying to convince someone, unless it's not really working?

- Carl

[Esteban]

Carl, there are Government reports about his use. Of course, this is not convenient for to manufacturers of any kind of detection system!!!

In wich war the enemy of USA built a tunnels system? In Vietnam. Army uses the skill of men for to find it:

It was this the Marines used to great effect in Viet Nam. The Army's Corps of Engineers brought in a seismic tunnel locator, which involved boring holes in the ground, setting charges in the holes, and measuring the ground echoes from the blasts to determine the location of tunnels. The instrument, which cost about half a million dollars, was about 50% effective in locating tunnels, but could not map them from the surface. The Marines' coathanger wires were 95% effective in locating tunnels, and could map them from the surface by indicating subterranean turns.

http://www.texasescapes.com/CFEckhar...of-Dowsing.htm



* * * * * * * * *

The long list of users of dowsing may be surprising to some readers:

• Engineering Companies (e.g. the Bio-Physical Method (BPM) was used in 1971 in the former USSR to detect water filtering through a dam (Bird 1979))
• Water Companies (a pair of dowsing rods is carried inside the doors of Water Board vans)
• Mining Companies (e.g. documented use for finding ore and petroleum in the USSR (Bakirov 1973))
• Laundries (for water supply)
• Breweries (for water supply)
• Building Contractors (to locate unknown service pipes on building sites)
• Farmers (for water supply)
• Government Departments
• Police (location of buried items and, it is rumoured, bodies)
• Armed Forces (dowsing used by the British Army since Colonial times); dowsing appeared in USSR army manuals in 1930 for the finding of water in remote areas; dowsing used by the First and Third US Marine Divisions in Vietnam, 1967, as a simple, low-cost method for locating Vietcong tunnels, which were used for communication, storage depots, supply network, command posts, training centres, hospitals and sally ports for over twenty years (Bossart 1968 in the Project Poorboy Annual Progress Report; Bird 1979, Chapter 11)).

In 1952 a team of electrical engineers tested the famous dowser Henry Gross, and found that his skin potential changed by up to 200mV over subterranean water, compared with a change of 10mV for non-dowsers.

Abstract: The use of dowsing for the location of caves, with some results from the first Royal Forest of Dean Caving Symposium, June 1994

http://www-sop.inria.fr/agos-sophia/sis/dowsing/dowsdean.html

* * * * * * * * *

Maybe there are able for it and others no.


* * * * * * * * *

if they do, it's a mighty poor way to find them


Is not a skeptical position.

[Carl-NC]

The Marines' coathanger wires were 95% effective in locating tunnels, and could map them from the surface by indicating subterranean turns.

I've read this before, but never seen any data to support it. The use of dowsing by Marines originated with Louis Matacia, and I already know that some aspects of this story have been stretched. Also, Matacia and his partner are in a Youtube dowsing video, and were caught cheating.

That's why, for scientific testing, you absolutely cannot rely on anecdotal accounts.

- Carl

[Qiaozhi]

Oh my goodness!

Learn Dowsing and Remote Viewing - featuring Louis Matacia:
http://www.learndowsing.com/
No comment ...

[Qiaozhi]

Derren Brown - Dowsing

Hung - watch and learn ->

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnF3XtQAlYE

[Qiaozhi]

Dowsing For Dollars

I've read this before, but never seen any data to support it. The use of dowsing by Marines originated with Louis Matacia, and I already know that some aspects of this story have been stretched. Also, Matacia and his partner are in a Youtube dowsing video, and were caught cheating.

That's why, for scientific testing, you absolutely cannot rely on anecdotal accounts.

- Carl

And here it is -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8BxmXHRaBI

[hung]

Hung - watch and learn ->
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnF3XtQAlYE

Learn what?
How to fake a video?

[Qiaozhi]

Learn what?
How to fake a video?

That's one thing you don't need to learn.

[Clondike Clad]

fg80

Anyone open an FG80 to take photo of inside.
I would like to see the circuit board.

[Qiaozhi]

Anyone open an FG80 to take photo of inside.
I would like to see the circuit board.

If you look further down this forum for the posts by Alexismex. he has completely dismantled the Mineoro FG80, and posted the sad findings here.

[hung]

If you look further down this forum for the posts by Alexismex. he has completely dismantled the Mineoro FG80, and posted the sad findings here.

A CD210 is not a FG80.
So, don't complain later when Dell states about skeptics misleading tactics. Although in your case it was plain ignorance.

PS: What sad findings? Oh yes...Ripping off an expensive detector to see if he could find his brains inside.. I almost forgot.

[Qiaozhi]

A CD210 is not a FG80.
So, don't complain later when Dell states about skeptics misleading tactics. Although in your case it was plain ignorance.

PS: What sad findings? Oh yes...Ripping off an expensive detector to see if he could find his brains inside.. I almost forgot.

Oh - I forgot. The previous scam always seem to have a problem that is cured by the "latest and greatest" model. CD210, FG80, PDC(whatever), they're all boxes of nonsense electronics only suitable for one thing - wallet mining.
Yes - they were sad findings. Especially for those who wasted their money on this expensive junk.

"What can be asserted without evidence, can also be dismissed without evidence."