Mineoro tests: What's really going on

[Clondike Clad]

RF/

dETECTING RF OR RMF CAN BE DONE WITH A SIMPLE CIRCUIT.
wITH THE FG80 THIS COULD BE A NEW TWIST FOR A SCAM.
NOW GOLD ION DETECTIONS I HAVE NOT SEEN ANY PROOF.
HOW STUPID DO SOME PEOPLE THANK WE ARE.
KEEP TESTING CARL YOU ARE DOING A GOOD JOB

[hung]

Carl, it seems you don't really wish to perform REAL tests but instead you keep attempting to make the FG80 fit in your theory of working principle which is false.

The FG80 works by detecting electrostatic and ionic fields from long time buried gold. You have to accept this fact.
With a simple procedure you can check that an electric field even diminshed can be detected. No need to rely on all the mumbo jumbo tests above. Simply get a 1.5 ordinary battery and short circuit it. The FG will beep from about 3 to 4 feet away.
The breaklight procedure is to check whether the detector is well calibrated or not. It's sensing the electric fields as it would if you aproach it from a simple light switch outlet in the wall of your home. Although there might be EM presence as in fluroescent lights, it's not detecting it as you think.
The FG80 is more resistant to electrical interference than the PDC210.
Inside the car I cannot point the PDC to the ignition coil's direction or it will go crazy. Due to the proximitiy position.
Now, with your car engine on, position your detector from about 20 feet with the usual calibration. I bet it won't beep. It's not DETECTING EM FIELDS. But if in place of your car, there was a relatively large mass of gold long time buried, you would be picking it up from at least 10 times this distance.

In july of 2006 I was in an expedition to locate gold veins for farmers in the central region of Brazil. One day I arrived at a farm which seemed to be located in the end of the world. In the middle of nothing. No electric lights, antennas, nada. It was night about 8:30 PM, When we were unpacking outside, I decided just for fun get the PDC210 (did not have the FG80 at the time) and scanned 360 deg the environment. Suddenly strong beeps came from one particular direction. As it was night we had to wait till next morning when we found out we detected a gold vein 400 feet away in a small hill which now gold is being extracted. Since the region is rich of natural gold the atmosphere is vastly ionized making detection even easier.

Accept this fact. There'snothing to do with EM although the detector might be affected by it. For the tenth time or more, the detector works by detecting electrostatic and ionic fields. This is true. Mineoro's explanation is true.
Accept this fact.
Please, for the last time. GO OUT TO DETECT GOLD. Stop playing with the detector at home. Go for the gold. Dell Winders is there not so far from you. GO WITH HIM and see for yourself. Otherwise this thread will become empty discussions as many others here, trying to speculate on this on and on and on...

[Clondike Clad]

atoms

Loss of atomic weight releases atoms of the matter in infinitesimal volume. The magnitude of that loss is not measurable
How do you know this if you can't measure it.
How do you detect it if you can't measure the released atoms
Atoms OF GOLD IN THE AIR.
SOUNDS LIKE A PACK OF BULL TO ME.
KEEP ON TESTING CARL.

[Carl-NC]

If I am correct, we might find that the FG80 also has directional properties in sensing a DC light turning on.

I did this with the Sandshark. I found the FG80 had max detection along the facial axis, in either direction. It had minimum detectability along the perimeter (edge-on). Detection range would increase as the FG80 is rotated from edge-on to directly facing. This is precisely what I would expect from a loop antenna.

- Carl

[Dell Winders]

Wow! Sounds like you are on to something. I eagerly wait to hear of your new discoveries. Dell

[J_Player]

Why is the weasel squealing?

Now since Carl has conducted some tests on his FG80, I hear a weasel squealing ferociously, trying to tell him to stop his tests and listen to more of the ion diatribe.

The FG80 works by detecting electrostatic and ionic fields from long time buried gold. You have to accept this fact.

Now, I wonder why this is? Is he afraid that Carl might demonstrate that the FG80 can reliably sense transient EM fields? Wasn't this whiner given every opportunity to demonstrate the Mineoro machines finding gold for several years, yet refused to conduct any repeatable tests for the members of this forum to read about? Isn't this the same whiner who refused to tell how the FG80 is able to sense ions because of "ethical reasons". Isn't this the same whiner who claims he "had a research team which was developing a project which completely have ‘blown’ some accepted standards of quantum mechanics", yet he refused to post any of the test details or results?

It seems a little late to whine and cry about how Carl is not conducting a "Real test" after refusing to conduct or post the results of any "real tests" of his own. All I have heard from this whiner is anecdotal stories about how he found lots of treasures with his Mineoro machines, no repeatable test results at all. Now that Carl has finally demonstrated some repeatable test results on the FG80, he wants him to stop his testing?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA...

So far, we have a number of reports of FG80 tests in the field by neronc, vcrb, and Carl, looking for the elusive "gold ions in the air", and none of them has been able to find the ions or any gold, not even the sample gold included with the FG80. So now that Carl finds the FG80 can reliably detect transient EM fields, the same weasel comes out whining that his test is no good.

Hahahahahahahahaaa

The whiners as well as anyone else are free to conduct their "Real" tests and post the test results in this forum or anywhere else they want. It is not necessary for Carl or anyone to stop running tests on the FG80 because a whiner tells him to. So far I have not heard anyone post a concise test procedure to demonstrate the FG80 sensing ions, or conduct any tests of the FG80 detecting ions. All I have heard are anecdotal stories about how they found gold. But the people who recently bought FG80s reported in this forum that they do not work to find gold.

I believe Carl has demonstrated that the FG80 can be used to detect faint transient EM fields repeatably with directional characteristics. He has also demonstrated that the FG80 contains a regenerative receiver, and responds like a regenerative receiver. But Carl has not demonstrated that the FG80 can find gold. Maybe someone can suggest a simple method to demonstrate the FG80 finding gold repeatably or finding gold ions in the air repeatably.

[Qiaozhi]

The FG80 works by detecting electrostatic and ionic fields from long time buried gold. You have to accept this fact.

This is not a fact. There is a lot of skeptism about the so-called ionic detection method, particularly since the whole idea is based on pseudoscience. It might be a fact in your mind, but that's all it is. Just another example of bad thinking.

Simply get a 1.5 ordinary battery and short circuit it. The FG will beep from about 3 to 4 feet away.
The breaklight procedure is to check whether the detector is well calibrated or not. It's sensing the electric fields as it would if you aproach it from a simple light switch outlet in the wall of your home. Although there might be EM presence as in fluroescent lights, it's not detecting it as you think.

This is probably the most (some might say "only") sensible thing you've said on this forum. According to Carl's tests so far, and your own description, it appears that the FG80 reacts to transient EM fields and not to EM fields that are in steady-state. In that case there's no surprise that it beeps when the brake light is activated, or when a power supply is connected to a resistor via a long length of wire, but not when pointed at a flourescent light.

In july of 2006 I was in an expedition to locate gold veins for farmers in the central region of Brazil. One day I arrived at a farm which seemed to be located in the end of the world. In the middle of nothing. No electric lights, antennas, nada. It was night about 8:30 PM, When we were unpacking outside, I decided just for fun get the PDC210 (did not have the FG80 at the time) and scanned 360 deg the environment. Suddenly strong beeps came from one particular direction. As it was night we had to wait till next morning when we found out we detected a gold vein 400 feet away in a small hill which now gold is being extracted. Since the region is rich of natural gold the atmosphere is vastly ionized making detection even easier.

So you got lucky. By the way, this is another way of saying "it was a coincidence". You are currently caught in the trap of "confirmation bias". If you don't know what that means, then get a good psychology book and read it.

Accept this fact.

It's not a fact, regardless of the number of times you make this statement.

Dell Winders is there not so far from you. GO WITH HIM and see for yourself. Otherwise this thread will become empty discussions as many others here, trying to speculate on this on and on and on...

There is little point Carl going out with Dell to test the FG80. Dell's modus operandi is to compare the device under test with one of his own non-working devices. Such a self-fulfilling prophecy is unscientific in its approach. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. So far we're not seeing any. Your own personal experience is not proof.

"What can be asserted without evidence, can also be dismissed without evidence."

Hopefully Carl will continue his illuminating experiments with the FG80, even though your whinging, and lack of objective evidence to support your claims, will no doubt continue unabated.

[Dell Winders]

Kudo's, to Sam Scafferi, for producing another clone. Dell

[Carl-NC]

He has also demonstrated that the FG80 contains a regenerative receiver, and responds like a regenerative receiver.

Well, no, I don't know that the FG80 contains a regenerative receiver, because I've never looked inside. I did find such a circuit in the PDC205 I dissected.

According to Carl's tests so far, and your own description, it appears that the FG80 reacts to transient EM fields and not to EM fields that are in steady-state.

I haven't shown (yet) whether the FG80 will (or will not) respond to a steady-state signal. I'll describe that experiment later, when I have time to type it up. Meanwhile, keep in mind that transient EM fields are nothing more broadband signals, made up of lots and lots of frequencies.

- Carl

[hung]

Oh man... It's impressive how the 'scientific experts' here have an instantaneous diagnosis and explanations to miserably try to explain why the device SHOULD NOT work as said.
At least Carl is being mininally honest in his answers.

1 - Fact: It seems real tests on this device are being postponed in an attempt to search for another explanation other than the one Mineoro gives. This is silly.

2 - Fact : Gold has to be more than 10 years old buried OR undisturbed for more than 10 years to be detectable. In this case, no need to be buried. Unless one of the above cases are present in a home environment, gold will not be detected.

3 - Fact : I have no reasons to lie. I know the detector works as I have been finding gold. The ones who own a similar device and still have not, are falling in 2 possible scienarios such as misuse of the device or no existence of gold in the region researched. It's either one of the two.

The one example I previously gave is to ilustrate a case of ionized atmosphere and detection happening at night what is not usual for the phenomena to happen.

I could simply not care and not give a sh... about remaining here and saying the same things over and over, but as Carl now owns a FG80, I want him to be able to find gold with it. I'm here to help him as I was here regarding Michael, Neronc, etc. I'm doing an honest attempt to help here. But if I perceive bad intentions to twist what I'm saying or any attempt to discredit myself, I will leave this discussion.

Note that I did not need to be here doing this as I get this disaproval from other sucessful Mineoro users who visit this forum once in a while and laugh in one side and get shocked in another with many things usually said by skeptics.

When I say ACCEPT THE FACT regarding the scientific explanation of the device, it's because there's no other way to understand its working principle other than admiting it. The phenomena is real despite of some skeptics here fool themselves thinking otherwise.
That's why I quit discussing scientific matters in this forum. No can do.
Science is one and only and if you don't look over the 'shoulders' of classical concepts you're dead scientifically. There are several examples which comes to mind as according to classical electrodynamics there should be no radial electric field in direction to the earth, but there is... Standard electrodynamics model not being able to explain the Faraday disk generator for instance, and etc, and etc.

I will not discuss them here. Waste of time.
All I expect is that a real and honest test of this device be made and conducted. The real test of going in the field with it, in the real conditions. To gain time, I suggested Carl to take Dell Winders with him since Dell know of places where gold exists. No reply from Carl. Sounds like prejudgement agains Dell. That's (REAL) bad.
Honestly and realistically, there's no other thing the detector will do in a region where there's long time buried gold but beep. Period.

[Clondike Clad]

FACT IS FG80 BUSTED

FACT:Any working metal detector will work for anyone.
FACT:SOMEONE IS LYING ON THIS FORUM
FACT: SOMEONE IS TESTING A LRL AND IT IS NOT WORKING AT FINDING GOLD.
FACT: THE LRL TESTED JUST LIKE ALL THE OTHERS AND THAT IS....AS A SCAM OR BULL @#%$ CRAP.
FACT: THE TESTER OF THIS LRL KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING.
FACT:FG80 IS BUSTED
NOW THE ONE WHO IS LYING CAN STOP LYING NOW

[J_Player]

Protocol for testing the FG80 to see what's really going on:

So far, we have received no concise instructions on how to test the FG80, only instructions for why testing won't work. Perhaps what is needed is a protocol that establishes a methodical method to examine what this device really does. So far we already had several people post the results of their field tests, indicating the GF80 does not find gold in the open fields. We also have some controlled tests by Carl which demonstrate that the FG80 can reliably sense transient EM fields with directional capabilities.

For a comprehensive protocol I would suggest that we include many kinds of testing, starting by reviewing the instructions from the manufacturer, conducting a close examination of the components in the FG80, performing controlled tests, and performing field tests.

In each of the 4 categories, there exists great latitude to experiment with different approaches. For example:

1. Manufacturer's instructions: Read the literature that the manufacturer included with the FG80 as well as the literature published on the Mineoro website so we have a full understanding of what the manufacturer claims this machine will do and what limitations he says it has. This does not prevent us from considering Hung's instructions which seem to be a bit different that what Mineoro publishes. And we may also develop instructions of our own based on our speculative thoughts of how the FG80 may respond, as in Carl's experiments with sensing transient EM fields.

2. Close examination of the components in the FG80: After looking at all the items that come with the FG80 and closely examining them, We may also decide to open the box and inspect the circuitry to see if there are any recognizable circuits commonly used in electronic devices. Destructive testing in the manner of Alexmex would show every last detail, but this may not be feasible if the FG80 is to be used to perform field tests and controlled tests.

3. Controlled testing: Carl has already taken a few stabs at controlled testing which resulted in demonstrating that the FG80 can reliably detect the presence of transient EM fields in the proximity with directional characteristics. The Mineoro website suggests a controlled test of the Gold Ion Generator (GIG) by setting the sensitivity to 400, then turn on the GIG and hold the gold plate in front of the GIG. They say you can detect the gold plate at a maximum distance of 1.5m. They say to perform the test with the gold plate, steel and copper. Also to perform it with a gold ring, which should respond at a maximum distance of 1m. They caution that this distance may be limited depending on the relative humidity of the air, electric nets radiation or atmospheric discharge. I believe this means this test is best performed away from any power sources, and done in what they deem to be the optimal relative humidity of 10% to 30%. But they say you can still get good, but slightly diminished results at up to 55% relative humidity. See bottom of this page for details: http://www.mineoro.com/guides/guideFg80.php
In addition to Mineoro's controlled tests, we can also devise any controlled tests we feel are helpful, and any tests that someone suggests. We can test the FG80 to see if it responds to things it was designed for, or things it was never intended for. Some may whine, but nobody can stop us.

4. Field testing: We already have the results posted of some field testing from neronc, vcrb, and Carl. vcrb in particular has stated he tested the GF80 in all types of weather and at different times of the year. "We tried and tried but to no avail". Carl and neronc had similar experiences in their limited field testing.
However, there are a couple of skeptics snivelling that there are many conditions that must be met before the FG80 will detect gold. It seems appropriate to devise a test that meets these conditions and see if we can demonstrate the FG80 finding gold when all the conditions are met.

Also, it is my understanding that the FG80 is supposed to find other buried items besides gold. I think it would also be helpful to conduct field tests to find these other items. The field testing protocol is also wide open for new innovative tests that anyone thinks would be helpful. Field testing does need to conform to anyone's concept of the "proper usage" of the FG80.

The biggest problem with testing any LRL in the field is that you may need to dig a hole the size of the field. Therefore, I suggest conducting all field tests in locations where a backhoe is available to do the digging.

[schatzsucher]

Why the manufacturer does not look for gold and became rich?

[Qiaozhi]

I haven't shown (yet) whether the FG80 will (or will not) respond to a steady-state signal. I'll describe that experiment later, when I have time to type it up. Meanwhile, keep in mind that transient EM fields are nothing more broadband signals, made up of lots and lots of frequencies.

- Carl

Looking forward to it.

1 - Fact: It seems real tests on this device are being postponed in an attempt to search for another explanation other than the one Mineoro gives. This is silly.

2 - Fact : Gold has to be more than 10 years old buried OR undisturbed for more than 10 years to be detectable. In this case, no need to be buried. Unless one of the above cases are present in a home environment, gold will not be detected.

3 - Fact : I have no reasons to lie. I know the detector works as I have been finding gold. The ones who own a similar device and still have not, are falling in 2 possible scienarios such as misuse of the device or no existence of gold in the region researched. It's either one of the two.

Again, you are confusing wishful thinking with reality.
None of the above are facts in the remotest sense of the word.

When I say ACCEPT THE FACT regarding the scientific explanation of the device, it's because there's no other way to understand its working principle other than admiting it.

This is just utter tripe.
Let's see that again: "...there's no other way to understand its working principle other than admiting it."

Give me strength...

In other words you're simply saying "have faith". Anyone reading your verbage could be excused for concluding that this LRL nonsense has developed into a religion. It seems you're now asking us engineers and scientists to forget about understanding how this works, and simply "believe". This smacks of pseudoscientific witchcraft. Unfortunately for you, we are not yet prepared to worship at the Church of Mineoro.

Standard electrodynamics model not being able to explain the Faraday disk generator for instance, and etc, and etc.

Actually the Faraday disk (or homopolar generator, as it's also known) is quite easily explained by science, without recourse to "made-up" physics.

[Carl-NC]

Gold has to be more than 10 years old buried OR undisturbed for more than 10 years to be detectable.

Mineoro specifically claims that the FG80 will detect fresh gold. You specifically said, in this thread, that your FG80 would detect fresh gold.

Now you are changing your story.

My FG80 included a gold-colored plate. Tell me, Hung... what is this plate for? Just to look at?

Note that I did not need to be here doing this as I get this disaproval from other sucessful Mineoro users who visit this forum once in a while and laugh in one side and get shocked in another with many things usually said by skeptics.

Where are all these successful Mineoro users? Have them drop in, and show us all the recoveries.

The real test of going in the field with it, in the real conditions.

This sounds exactly like the other LRL guys... "It doesn't work in bogus scientific tests, it will only work in the field."

To gain time, I suggested Carl to take Dell Winders with him since Dell know of places where gold exists.

Jewelry stores?

- Carl