some cosiderations

[J_Player]

Hi Max,

You are saying stupid things again.

You cannot prove anything.

You pretend I am trying to prove something? But you know I am not. I told you in my post above exactly what my purpose is: "I have no interest in trying to prove to you that there are methods of locating buried metals at long range. My objective is to provide some real science involved with buried metals that can be demonstrated and proven by thousands of pages of research." Scroll up to my posts above and read it.

So what do you offer more than e.g. Esteban ? To me, nothing.

You are correct. There is nothing of value for you here. You may as well ignore my posts because they contain no useful information for you.

Are you looking for a gold treasure ? If so your "theories" mean nothing, like Esteban's burned schematics.

Again, I told you this is not my purpose. I guess you are either too stupid to read my answers or maybe too lazy. My purpose is to provide some real science involved with buried metals (read the post above).

That's your problem.

WRONG! It is not my problem. It has never been my problem to perform research or provide schematics for your benefit. If you don't know what you want to know about locating treasures, it is your problem, not mine. Remember, you have no power over me whatsoever. Nothing you say or do can cause me to perform the tasks you demand. You can't coerce me to do your thinking for you even in the slightest. You can't coerce me to locate test results and research that you are too lazy to read for yourself. I think the same is true for esteban and anyone else who you tried to characterize as useless because they won't perform as you demand.
In case you haven't figured it out, I owe you nothing. Not even the explanation I just typed.

Nice try Max, but you may as well give up. Your tricks won't work on me because I just don't care.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Hi,
you talk about "particular" science involved with buried metals... like I can talk of aliens on Mars... same thing.

No relevance to electronic LRL.
What's the relevance ?

You said you've a working electronic LRL not I.

I'm interested in your claim: that thing... not geological magazines.

JP if you don't want post relevant informations here is fine for me.

I haven't any problem with you... or with Esteban.

But when someone claim something , that he had, that it work, that he designed... realized... it's clear that there is the intention of communicate to the world that YES, COULD BE DONE ! YES, I'HAVE DONE ! YES IT WORKS ! EUREKA !

Or not ?

THEN (logic said me)

Why you posted here that you have a working electronic LRL ?

Now you don't want give proofs... schematics... even the principle of operation... NOTHING.

Why you posted here that you have a working electronic LRL ?
And then become silent ?

Also Esteban and others do the same:
-they claim LRL are working
-then they don't give any explaination, anything useful to understand is possible for real or not and HOW

Why people must belive what you said (that you have a working LRL) and don't belive Esteban or others, if, at the end, YOU ACT SAME WAY ?

Just cause you post some articles here ?

My advice is, assuming you have a working LRL like you said, to partecipate to the LRL Challenge and win the jackpot, proving that I'm wrong !

This way you can demonstrate that your LRL work for real, without the need of giving to the public your discovery details.

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Hi Max,

You forget. You have the problem, not me. I don't have to prove anything to you. You can whine all you want, but you can't coerce me to perform per your demands and you can't stop me from accomplishing my objective.

Your tricks still didn't work. Now what will you do?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

Hi Max,

You forget. You have the problem, not me. I don't have to prove anything to you. You can whine all you want, but you can't coerce me to perform per your demands and you can't stop me from accomplishing my objective.

Your tricks still didn't work. Now what will you do?

Best wishes,
J_P

Why you posted here that you have a working electronic LRL ?

Now you don't want give proofs... schematics... even the principle of operation... NOTHING.

Why you posted here that you have a working electronic LRL ?
And then become silent ?

Hi J_Player,

With all this bickering going on, I've become a little confused. I don't recall anywhere that you claimed to have a working LRL.
Is this true, or not?

[Max]

Hi J_Player,

With all this bickering going on, I've become a little confused. I don't recall anywhere that you claimed to have a working LRL.
Is this true, or not?

Hi,
well he said something bit by bit... so take your conclusion like I have done.

he wrote:
"... If you recall, I already posted long ago that if I had a working LRL, I would not be talking about it in this forum, so you can forget about seeing any LRL schematics from me. "

But before that he wrote about the fact he has seen and used one/more working LRL built by "someone". A real demonstration of a working LRL.

he wrote:
"I've never seen a LRL available for sale on the open market demonstrated to work, but I have seen and used a couple of LRLs built and owned by private individuals that worked like the builders said they would (these are not for sale). "

and also he wrote:
"They located from a long range beyond the reach of any metal detector. The point is they are not available for anyone to buy on the open market. The only LRLs for sale on the open market cannot be demonstrated to work.

Think about it. Suppose you had an electronic instrument that located metal objects in a certain weight range and discriminated, from a range of over 50 feet. If this detector worked every time regardless of weather, and solar conditions, would you rush out and try to sell it? Wouldn't you quietly go treasure hunting and hope nobody found out about your treasure or your locator? What reason would an inventor of a working electronic LRL have to manufacture and sell it? Can you think of a reason?
"

So who knows !? Maybe he hasn't it and is just a witness of something... or maybe he has one device or schematic/design and don't wanna post here... say nothing more.Or he's just bluffing like others.

After the last message where he wrote about the fact he'll never post a schematic anyway... I've made 2+2. But maybe I'm wrong.
Don't know.

What's sure is that he strongly belive that a just-electronic-LRL work detecting metals from a range beyond conventional MDs possibilities.

It's a big claim... even saying that he has just seen or used a couple of working LRLs for real, and that they worked truly. Even if he hasn't any schematic or unit.

Just that fact is a big claim for me.

Anyway, just to explain you why I asked him to post some useful information about... and not articles from magazines.

Best regards,
Max

[Seden]

Max,my take on J Players information

What I've come away with from reading J Players articles is that he is providing good solid scientific information on the chemical and electrical possibilities that COULD make it possible for an LRL to be designed around.

He's just provided us with the science available and it's up to us to get off our collective asses and do our own experiments. No one should be spoon fed on this forum. Were all brainstorming (American expression for sharing of ideas and theories) and since were (hopefully) seasoned electronics people now have the information necessary to experiment with.
So let's be done with this criticing of others ideas,turn on our soldering irons,oscilloscopes and spectrum analyzers and experiment.

I own several classic and new Geophysics books and have come to realize that Geophysicists are not interested in Treasure hunting and so therefore no monies have been given to research using the kind of things that J Player has listed as possiblities. Personally I too am leaning towards Magnetotelluric currents as a good starting point. Why should we have to view the naturally occuring radiation as 'noise' when we could use it to our benefit? Were fighting against something that could be used for our purpose.

Randy

[Max]

What I've come away with from reading J Players articles is that he is providing good solid scientific information on the chemical and electrical possibilities that COULD make it possible for an LRL to be designed around.

He's just provided us with the science available and it's up to us to get off our collective asses and do our own experiments. No one should be spoon fed on this forum. Were all brainstorming (American expression for sharing of ideas and theories) and since were (hopefully) seasoned electronics people now have the information necessary to experiment with.
So let's be done with this criticing of others ideas,turn on our soldering irons,oscilloscopes and spectrum analyzers and experiment.

I own several classic and new Geophysics books and have come to realize that Geophysicists are not interested in Treasure hunting and so therefore no monies have been given to research using the kind of things that J Player has listed as possiblities. Personally I too am leaning towards Magnetotelluric currents as a good starting point. Why should we have to view the naturally occuring radiation as 'noise' when we could use it to our benefit? Were fighting against something that could be used for our purpose.

Randy

Hi Randy,
yes "COULD make it possible for an LRL to be designed around"
you're right. I think JP has done a good work of research, finding documents and reading a lot.
I found some of his posts really interesting too.
And yes, I know " brainstorming " expression... make lot of these... very often (almost everyday).
Could be a good idea thinking at telluric currents as a starting point, considering them not just as noise but as useful source of an active signal.

Just I think that some of these things will never give results. Aren't promising from my point of view... my physics understanding say me that's the wrong way, so can't see usefulness of them.

My idea of LRL pass through an active locator, with some kind of signal emission, like in radar systems.

For me is much more difficault finding/thinking a passive way to electronic-LRL. Can't see good principles, theory of operation etc for them.

When I see stuff like zahori' schematic, microvoltmeters and other "anomaly detectors" I have my problems thinking at them as working LRLs... you know why.

Real misteries are the claims of above... and their implications.
Already made and working LRLs !

But I like misteries.

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Hi Max,

You forget. You have the problem, not me. I don't have to prove anything to you. You can whine all you want, but you can't coerce me to perform per your demands and you can't stop me from accomplishing my objective.

Your tricks still didn't work. Now what will you do?

Best wishes,
J_P

Why you posted here that you have a working electronic LRL ?

Now you don't want give proofs... schematics... even the principle of operation... NOTHING.

Why you posted here that you have a working electronic LRL ?
And then become silent ?

With all this bickering going on, I've become a little confused. I don't recall anywhere that you claimed to have a working LRL.
Is this true, or not?

Hi Qiaozhi,

You are correct. I never did post here that I have a working electronic LRL.
This is a false allegation made by Max.

It's funny how writing about real science can cause some people to become upset and use stupid arguments to prove the science is no good; -- only the ideas that live inside their heads are correct. In this case Max used the same logic as he used to prove the researchers reports were wrong about ion concentrations they discovered in the soil, and the same logic he used to prove that magnetellurics cannot locate gold. This refusal to face scientific facts is usually reserved for certain LRL proponents or religious fanatics. But I had a feeling my posts detailing buried metal geoscience would flush out a few deluded forum members. Apparently, even skeptics are capable of attempting to spread false allegations in order to promote their favourite opinions.

For those who are interested in knowing about the properties of buried metals and some seldom observed phenomena around them, You will find little help in Max's posts to lead you that direction. Seden's post above summarizes my opinion of LRLs that led to my posting this series of facts discovered about the science of buried metals and related phenomena.

I am as skeptical as anyone else about paying money for commercial locating equipment that the seller is not willing to demonstrate working for me. And I also believe we skeptics should use the same "real science" we claim the LRL proponents refuse to face when dealing with the methods of detecting anything. "Real science" is science that can be observed and demonstrated repeatably, not science that somebody makes up off the top of their head, based on some unfounded logic and lack of data.

The news that there are traces of metal ions in the soil above long-time buried metals was not news to me. This was explained to me by a physicist two decades ago, and has been known by some of the scientists working for the US government since that time or longer. I felt now is a good time to start talking about it since some of the worst fake LRL proponents have left and stopped clogging up this forum with misinformation. We now have a fairly fertile ground for those who are still undecided, and have the electronic skills to experiment in this area.

The existence of traces of metal ions near buried metals is not the only phenomenon that could contribute to building a true LRL. But it is a key essential factor in making other phenomena detectable that could be found through passive or active methods. This is the reason I am covering some of the less often observed phenomena that changes when there is metal buried beneath the surface. There is no single method that surpasses all other approaches in this field, just as there is no single best metal detector that surpasses all others. Different approaches are needed for different conditions. There is something here for everybody who is interested in knowing the details of what real science has been observed concerning buried metals. There is nothing here for people who have decided they have no interest in understanding or experimenting in these areas. Make no mistake, I am not writing anything about the schematics or tuning details for working LRLs, only about the geophysics of buried metals. For those who have no interest in these things, you may better spend your time reading something you are interested in instead of this.

And for those who want to coerce me to perform for them or think for them, it didn't work for Max, and it probably won't work for you.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Nihil Roma Maius]

Some ideas

USA GOVERNMENT PAPER:

3.4.4 In pipeline cathodic protection, a negative potential is impressed on the pipeline which causes electrical earth currents to flow to the pipeline, protecting it against corrosion. Since the conductivity of most metals exceeds the conductivity of average soils, buried metallic pipes or cables act as low resistance paths and tend to collect stray earth currents which may be present in the surrounding earth electrolyte. At the point where the stray currents enter these auxiliary conductors the earth becomes anodic and the pipe or cable becomes cathodic.

[Nihil Roma Maius]

Coils and compass as indicator of conductivity. Lost in time!!!

[J_Player]

Hi Seden,

I own several classic and new Geophysics books and have come to realize that Geophysicists are not interested in Treasure hunting and so therefore no monies have been given to research using the kind of things that J Player has listed as possiblities.

The geophysicists I have talked to also have little interest in treasure hunting. They are more interested in methods to locate things under the ground that their employers pay them to locate. Most of the money for research in this field is funded by government agencies interested in science, and by private exploration companies.

Because most physicists are busy developing methods as directed by the programs they are working within, they have little time to dabble in treasure hunting. They view treasure hunting as an activity that is not likely to provide them with a good income as the research programs pay them to develop. For this reason, the development of geophysics as well as astrophysics and other related sciences are directed by the goals of government sponsored and commercial archeology, geophysics and space exploration programs. Treasure hunting developments fall mostly in the realm of private experimenters. It seems the Geotech Long Range Locating forum is a perfect place for this kind of experimenting.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

Here another proof about how a stable and sensitive BFO in conjunction with other "things" can detect at distance and depth.

No schematics, please!!! Missing in action, yes, because I'm in action building more electronic LRL! This is for to enerve Max and others!

[gold24h]

Esteban,i beleive your locater works,this is what i think.The receiving part of the machine sends a signal to the BFO that causes the bfo to get out of resonance,i would have to know more before i could build such a machine but am i close to the way it operates?

[Seden]

J player

Would you mind emailing me your address,I've got some questions that I don't want to post.

r.seden@sbcglobal.net

Thanks much,

Randy Seden

[Esteban]

... sends a signal to the BFO that causes the bfo to get out of resonance

Yes, you're right. Good BFO is better than other types because is in critic equilibrium, but is difficult to find a good BFO.

p.s.: my reference to "others" is regarding no-believers.