pointronic 98

[aft_72005]

Hi to all
Me and Geo need pointronic 98 circuit diagram .
Can anybody upload here ?
Best regards .

[Max]

Hi,
why don't ask Esteban ?

seems he has it !


Originally Posted by Esteban
Also have schematics of Mineoro (number 493 of my list):

493. Various Mineoro schematics, two boxes, etc.:
- 08 MI - Two boxes
- 89 MC - Two boxes
- BL 692 - Two boxes
- 8 VLl - MD
- 8 VLU - MD
- Modifications in Mineoro’s 8VLU
- CM 80
- D1 and D2 - BFO
- MP 10 - Two boxes
- DC 2006 - Pistol long range
- Pointronic 98 - Pistol long range
- DCH 85 - Pistol long range

If I'm right he'll refuse to post the entire schematic attempting some phrase like:
"sorry but I cannot post here"

Then you'll ask him for sending by email, but you'll never receive it.

They claimed some of these work... do you remember...?

Again this is just a stupid poker play, they'll never give you the schematic of a "branded" LRL, of their realm, cause they'll lose any (residual?) credit !

They are good ONLY BLUFFING !

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Again this is just a stupid poker play, they'll never give you the schematic of a "branded" LRL, of their realm, cause they'll lose any (residual?) credit !

All us can wind a round of poker without showing all the cards. Credit? Who qualify here if I or another person have or not credit? Where is the measurement scale of credit?

[Geo]

Hi Max .

I did not ask the schematic from Esteban and neither I will ask him for it. Simply I saw published the schematic here with bad analysis and I said him to sent it to me in order to studied a little. Generally a lot of trouble for nothing .
My best regards to all of you

[J_Player]

All us can wind a round of poker without showing all the cards. Credit? Who qualify here if I or another person have or not credit? Where is the measurement scale of credit?

The measurement scale in the LRL forum is credibility. This means if you can supply some facts that people believe, then you will have credibility. Most people will know the difference from facts and stories told with no proof.

For a long time we heard people talking that there is no ions in the ground from gold. I showed proof, and now I don't hear anybody talking stories of no gold ions any longer. This is a demonstration of how the power of facts is stronger than BS.

For people who have LRL that works to find treasure, there is no reason to show these LRL in this forum. For people who have a working LRL, you are smart to never tell your story, because it is better to use your LRL for recovering treasure, not to give to people who laugh at you.

Nobody has proved that any LRL pistol can find gold in this forum. Also nobody has proved that any LRL pistol cannot find gold in this forum. So the answer is nobody proved nothing about what LRLs can find.

The only fact we know about LRL is nobody on earth will make a demonstration in front of live witnesses to show what the LRL can find. Because of this fact, I do not spend my money to buy any LRL. I only look for facts that can be proved about LRLs.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

For a long time we heard people talking that there is no ions in the ground from gold. I showed proof, and now I don't hear anybody talking stories of no gold ions any longer. This is a demonstration of how the power of facts is stronger than BS

I think you took this statement somewhat literally.
Of course gold ions do exist. They are basically gold atoms with either an excess or a deficit of electrons. What was in doubt was this sort of nonsense -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EJI5cvAKug where a Mineoro LRL is "demonstrated" finding a single coin from an unbelievable distance.
The information you have uncovered regarding gold ions in the soil relates to gold mining, and the ability of certain microbes in specific conditions to excrete traces of gold in an ionic state. This is a far cry from the YouTube video claims. I still stand by my previous conviction that you can bury a gold coin for a million years and still not be able to detect any gold ions.

[J_Player]

I think you took this statement somewhat literally.
Of course gold ions do exist. They are basically gold atoms with either an excess or a deficit of electrons. What was in doubt was this sort of nonsense -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EJI5cvAKug where a Mineoro LRL is "demonstrated" finding a single coin from an unbelievable distance.
The information you have uncovered regarding gold ions in the soil relates to gold mining, and the ability of certain microbes in specific conditions to excrete traces of gold in an ionic state. This is a far cry from the YouTube video claims. I still stand by my previous conviction that you can bury a gold coin for a million years and still not be able to detect any gold ions.

It is literally correct that a vertical column of trace amount of gold ions exists beginning from the location of long time buried gold and continuing to the surface of the soil, just as Mineoro says. Mineoro's claim that trace amounts of gold ions will migrate from long time buried gold to the surface through the soil is confirmed as true by researchers who measured the gold ions following this pattern. What is not correct is these same gold ions continue up 7.2 feet into the air. Researchers have discovered these gold ions become bound with neighboring chemicals in the soil when they reach surface, and do not move into the air.

Also, Mineoro has never demonstrated their locators finding any gold in front of witnesses except in the yard behind their factory. Maybe it is a good idea to see a demonstration of Mineoro FG model detectors finding fresh gold in front of live witnesses today in some location different than the back yard of Mineoro factory.

The final fact is that nobody on earth will demonstrate any LRL locating treasure in front of witnesses. It does not matter what is the science of ions or electrostatic fields. What matters is what tools you can use to locate treasures. And today, there is nobody on earth who will demonstrate any LRL finding treasure in front of you from a long distance.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Hi,
for me the "long time buried" something is just another goodnight story. That way they could continue forever claiming that their stuff find "long time buried gold"... that must be "long time buried...". BS.

Gold ions generation depends on many factors but no need of any long time...

I mean if you have right components in soil... maybe is matter of hours or days. They talk about 100 or 1000years.

Also bacteria if present could make exchange reactions at cellular barrier even in few minutes.

Problem is that even after a million years concentration of "free" ions is about the same cause of recollapsing e.g. of part of the ions in gold microparticles, with no electrical unbalance.

The process could take millions years for moving e.g. few grams of gold from e.g. a vein to another place... kind of dinamic equilibrium... with just few part per billions gold ions involved at any second.

No LRL could detect by ions (supposed that it can detect gold ions from soil...) "fresh" or "old time buried" gold just cause that gold ions are ever too few to be detected by an handheld detector (at least for now).

Only things that could do the job is e.g. a modified prothein or other organic compound that could "selectively" bind gold ions, then be used to trace ions trapping by e.g. luminescence to UV and the like.

Not for sure any ONLY-ELECTRONIC DEVICE TODAY.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Hi Max .

I did not ask the schematic from Esteban and neither I will ask him for it. Simply I saw published the schematic here with bad analysis and I said him to sent it to me in order to studied a little. Generally a lot of trouble for nothing .
My best regards to all of you

Hi Geo,
I know your intentions are just educational !

That you'll like see with your eyes the circuit and then evaluate if could work or not, maybe build it and test!

I think that people that post here stuff with low resolution or masking parts etc don't want really post anything good or giving any good info.

I think they need that stuff to make people think they know "secrets" about LRL working... that they don't want / can't make public domain.

Like in the poker play the bluffing could be productive if at the end people think that secrets exist and they know that secrets for real. They'll push this or that brand of LRL, without giving any proof or fact and can't be linked to the business cause they claim no-connection with those manifacturers.

I think that the "Pointronic 98" case here is just another example of this strategy. As you can see nobody answer with the full schematic... but just to make other claims and assumptions.

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Gold ions generation depends on many factors but no need of any long time...

I mean if you have right components in soil... maybe is matter of hours or days. They talk about 100 or 1000years.

Also bacteria if present could make exchange reactions at cellular barrier even in few minutes.

In natural soil conditions, buried gold will not produce an ion anomaly in a matter of hours or days. Researchers discovered the necessary soil chemistry must first be present, and then there is a period of time to slowly dissolve the gold, and for traces of gold ions to migrate in a column to the surface. Given the best natural soil conditions where there is an existing colony of gold-eating microbes, the time required for this column of ions to reach the surface would depend on the depth of the buried gold, and the ion mobility properties of the soil surrounding the gold.

In order to dissolve gold in a matter of hours, we would need to use artificial means, such as methods used in mining recovery. One common method of mining recovery uses cyanide solution sprinkled over the material that was dug from the mine in order to dissolve and leach out any gold. This cyanide solution is collected after it drains from the soil, then the gold is chemically precipitated as solid gold metal, as well as other trace metals of interest. These cyanide recoveries are performed at gold mines all over the world, and could be a good test bed for a LRL that is claimed will find gold ions.

If a LRL is guaranteed to respond to the presence of gold ions, then there is an abundance of gold ions in the soil wherever a mine is conducting cyanide leaching. These mines often have sprinklers set up on several acres of land to spray cyanide solution on mounds of soil and dissolve tiny particles of gold. If a LRL can actually find gold ions in the soil, then these cyanide leaching fields contain gold ions thousands of times more concentrated than what is naturally found in the soil.

Do you suppose these gold ion detecting LRLs can detect where the leaching fields of a gold mine are located?

Another method where you can make your own test of these LRLs is to prepare some aqua regia to dissolve gold and create gold ions. If you dissolve 1 mg of gold into aqua regia, then add distilled water to the aqua regia to make up 1 liter, you will have a concentration of gold ions of 1 part per million. This is about 1000 times more concentrated than gold ions found in the soil from long-time buried gold. You could pour this solution into a small plastic bucket of soil and place this bucket into a hole in the ground so the top of the soil was flush with the surrounding ground. Then try your long range gold locator and see if it can locate the strong gold solution.

Whether you use cyanide solution or aqua regia solution, you can create the target conditions to test any LRL that has claims to locate dissolved gold ions. Maybe a small bottle of this dissolved gold solution would be handy to take to the local LRL shop to see if the LRL can find the hidden bottle of gold ions. If you hid a bottle of 1 part per million gold solution in the LRL shop, then asked to see the LRL work, you would quickly find out if it can locate dissolved gold ions.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

In natural soil conditions, buried gold will not produce an ion anomaly in a matter of hours or days. Researchers discovered the necessary soil chemistry must first be present, and then there is a period of time to slowly dissolve the gold, and for traces of gold ions to migrate in a column to the surface. Given the best natural soil conditions where there is an existing colony of gold-eating microbes, the time required for this column of ions to reach the surface would depend on the depth of the buried gold, and the ion mobility properties of the soil surrounding the gold.

In order to dissolve gold in a matter of hours, we would need to use artificial means, such as methods used in mining recovery. One common method of mining recovery uses cyanide solution sprinkled over the material that was dug from the mine in order to dissolve and leach out any gold. This cyanide solution is collected after it drains from the soil, then the gold is chemically precipitated as solid gold metal, as well as other trace metals of interest. These cyanide recoveries are performed at gold mines all over the world, and could be a good test bed for a LRL that is claimed will find gold ions.

If a LRL is guaranteed to respond to the presence of gold ions, then there is an abundance of gold ions in the soil wherever a mine is conducting cyanide leaching. These mines often have sprinklers set up on several acres of land to spray cyanide solution on mounds of soil and dissolve tiny particles of gold. If a LRL can actually find gold ions in the soil, then these cyanide leaching fields contain gold ions thousands of times more concentrated than what is naturally found in the soil.

Do you suppose these gold ion detecting LRLs can detect where the leaching fields of a gold mine are located?

Another method where you can make your own test of these LRLs is to prepare some aqua regia to dissolve gold and create gold ions. If you dissolve 1 mg of gold into aqua regia, then add distilled water to the aqua regia to make up 1 liter, you will have a concentration of gold ions of 1 part per million. This is about 1000 times more concentrated than gold ions found in the soil from long-time buried gold. You could pour this solution into a small plastic bucket of soil and place this bucket into a hole in the ground so the top of the soil was flush with the surrounding ground. Then try your long range gold locator and see if it can locate the strong gold solution.

Whether you use cyanide solution or aqua regia solution, you can create the target conditions to test any LRL that has claims to locate dissolved gold ions. Maybe a small bottle of this dissolved gold solution would be handy to take to the local LRL shop to see if the LRL can find the hidden bottle of gold ions. If you hid a bottle of 1 part per million gold solution in the LRL shop, then asked to see the LRL work, you would quickly find out if it can locate dissolved gold ions.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi JP,
thanks for the recipes... but I still think that's a matter of hours and days if right conditions are present in the soil.

You'll get the same amount of ions of the so called "long time buried gold" conditions... parts per billion. For me is so.

Cannot see any good reason why e.g. gold ions have to concentrate or increase in number with long time last.
So be directly proportional to time actually past.
For me is a bad argumentation till someone explain why that ions haven't return to non-ionized state due e.g. reduction reactions.

If so you'll find enormous amount of gold ions in very ancient deposits of natural gold and it isn't so.
Think at e.g. million years old deposits.
Even parts per billion.

For me the dinamic equilibrium depends of factors like:
- amount of gold present
- amount of chemicals/bacteria in soil
etc
but not by time... after 1 month or 1 million years you'll have about the same amount of free gold ions in the soil.

After a short time, like in closed systems phase change you'll got a situation so that you'll have so many new gold ions equal to the number of recollapsed in non-ionized state atoms of gold.

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Hi Max,

but I still think that's a matter of hours and days if right conditions are present in the soil.

You are wrong. Check the millions of pages of research and see what the scientists who studied gold ions in the ground discovered. The only way to create "right conditions" for short time ions in the soil is to artificially introduce gold-dissolving chemicals in greater concentrations than could be normally found in nature. The chemicals necessary are sodium cyanide, potassium cyanide, and sulfur complexes. The only common natural source of these chemicals below the surface come from certain metal-eating microbes that cannot grow in a densely enough populated colony in soil to produce sufficient ions to rise several hundred meters or even several centimeters in a few days.

The fastest natural gold ion production would be caused by burying gold at a shallow depth in soil high in organic matter. This would allow a rich environment for certain gold-eating microbes to produce the necessary soil chemistry, and would allow a short migration path to the surface for the gold ions. In this condition, it takes at least several months without artificial incubation and chemical additives to produce a weak, sub-parts per billion concentration of gold ions. Experiments conducted by researchers have proved this. But you are free to believe it is not true.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Hi Max,You are wrong. Check the millions of pages of research and see what the scientists who studied gold ions in the ground discovered. The only way to create "right conditions" for short time ions in the soil is to artificially introduce gold-dissolving chemicals in greater concentrations than could be normally found in nature. The chemicals necessary are sodium cyanide, potassium cyanide, and sulfur complexes. The only common natural source of these chemicals below the surface come from certain metal-eating microbes that cannot grow in a densely enough populated colony in soil to produce sufficient ions to rise several hundred meters or even several centimeters in a few days.

The fastest natural gold ion production would be caused by burying gold at a shallow depth in soil high in organic matter. This would allow a rich environment for certain gold-eating microbes to produce the necessary soil chemistry, and would allow a short migration path to the surface for the gold ions. In this condition, it takes at least several months without artificial incubation and chemical additives to produce a weak, sub-parts per billion concentration of gold ions. Experiments conducted by researchers have proved this. But you are free to believe it is not true.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi JP,
maybe I'm wrong... maybe don't take a day or a week... or a month,
or a year... but then:

Cannot see any good reason why e.g. gold ions have to concentrate or increase in number with long time last.
So be directly proportional to time actually past.
For me is a bad argumentation till someone explain why that ions haven't return to non-ionized state due e.g. reduction reactions.

By logic:
If exist a directly proportional relation to time actually past, you'll have to find not parts per billion gold ions... but in some ancient deposits, millions years old, much more!

But you'll find everytime parts per billion !

Do you say you'll find more there ?

So, at the end, changes nothing... if it takes 1 year instead of 1 month for me... I'll always say that even after 1 million years you'll find about the same that you'll find after 1 year.

For me all this talking about "long time buried gold" that produce tons of ions is just another fake argument flying around LRL... BS.
My opinion.

Long time buried or not... free ions are these ! parts per billion.

You'll need a specialized lab to determine if they are there... you cannot locate the spot... the vertical column is an optimistic point of view how how things moves down our feets.

Good for Mineoro maybe... but just to make advertise.

I think that even detecting real-time those ions in soil ...determining how much gold you'll find (few nanograms or tons ?)... or where it's located (the spot) could be impossible that way.

For me ionic detection is absolutely unusable in real TH at now.

Changes nothing, no more gold ions, no remote location: NO IONIC LRL.

Just my thoughts.

Best regards,
Max

[Esteban]

For me ionic detection is absolutely unusable in real TH at now.

Changes nothing, no more gold ions, no remote location: NO IONIC LRL.

Just my thoughts.

Best regards,
Max

100% of certainty in any matter is just 100% of ignorance.

Esteban

[J_Player]

For me is a bad argumentation till someone explain why that ions haven't return to non-ionized state due e.g. reduction reactions.

The reason you cannot understand why the buried gold ions maintain their parts per billion concentration of ions is because you are too lazy to read through the reports to find the answers. There are thousands of reports available that explain the reasons, but you prefer to use your own fake science that you make up from your logic and your ignorance rather than read what was discovered by scientists about the subterranean metal chemistry.

I posted more than a million pages of reports made by scientists and researchers who gave all the answers and more. If you actually read the data that researchers reported, you would find that small amounts of gold are dissolved by cyanide and are then carried by sulfur complexes through the soil. You will find these moving ions are not depleted from the soil, but continue to exist in amounts that can be measured in parts per billion or less. You will find there are other mechanisms that cause a trace of gold ions to continue to exist in the soil besides that mechanism.

Your logic is not logic, but only ignorance. There is no logic that proves gold ions are depleted from the soil because they return to the non-ionized state, when chemists measure these gold ions are not depleted from the soil. Hundreds of scientist's data measured wins over any theoretical logic using on wrong data to prove the gold ions become depleted.

Apparently, you did not read any of the reports that show what happens when these microbes are introduced into recently buried gold, or the reports of chemists who charted the path of gold ions emanating from deep gold ore. If you read these reports, you would not make ignorant statements. (Unless you believe there are over 2 million reports from researchers who all lied about what they found - then you would be correct as long as you could prove they all turned in fake data and reports).

Here are search links with over 2 million reports on how gold ions form. You will find many reports in these links that show what really happens to gold underground, and what does not happen:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=gold+microbe&btnG=Google+Search

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=gold+ion+soil+mine&btnG=Search

If you read these reports, you will have good information so you can make intelligent conclusions instead of always wrong conclusion that you want people to believe.

Best wishes,
J_P