pointronic 98

[Max]

Hi Geo,
One feet is not LRL. One feet IB and TR is ordinary metal detector. We already know that IB detector can find coins from 1 feet because many IB detectors from long time ago can do this. Same is true for other TR detectors. But these designs cannot find a non ferrous coin from 10 feet. This is the reason why it is good to see construction details for a true long range detection that has not been shown before.

We do not look for secret technology to be used in patents for 100 meter locating coins. Only asking for instructions to build a limited 10 feet detector. Limited 10 feet LRL is not the same as highly developed LRL for 100 meter. !0 feet is old style LRL that will not give secrets to new 100 meter LRLs.

If we see example to build a small 10-foot distance working LRL, then we don't need to hear thousands of forum talk from people always say is not possible. When we have an example to build a small 10-foot distance LRL, it will make finally a peaceful and quiet forum with only technology, no more argument.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi JP,
I want to see it too.

But I'm ok only if it's:
- capable of detecting a coin on surface soil from 2 meters away (so even less than 10 feet)
- coin could be 1inch maximum diameter, round , 0.1 inch thickness maximum, flat (as coins are)
- coin could be iron made, or gold, silver, lead, copper, nickel, aluminium or alloys of that metals ONLY
- unit and antenna must stay in the following dimensions 40cm*40cm*40cm
, like the ones he had in the pictures and stay in that limited cubic volume
- MUST BE an Esteban's design claimed by him capable of doing that so detecting that single coin from at least 2meters away

Just these points ( seems not too much ) of above and I swear I'll mantain my promise of excuse etc with him here.

MUST BE HIS DESIGN CAUSE: he claimed it's possible and that he have done already, so he must provide one of his original schematic to give the proof

So c'mon Esteban let us dream !

Let see what happens.

Best regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Hi Max,

There already exists a method that can detect as you say in your test requirements.

- capable of detecting a coin on surface soil from 2 meters away (so even less than 10 feet)
- coin could be 1inch maximum diameter, round , 0.1 inch thickness maximum, flat (as coins are)
- coin could be iron made, or gold, silver, lead, copper, nickel, aluminium or alloys of that metals ONLY
- unit and antenna must stay in the following dimensions 40cm*40cm*40cm

I can rent a magnetometer that will find an iron coin in this condition from 2 meters. Since we are talking about LRL design that uses coils, I would look only for non-ferrous to support the idea of LRL.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Hi Max,

There already exists a method that can detect as you say in your test requirements.

- capable of detecting a coin on surface soil from 2 meters away (so even less than 10 feet)
- coin could be 1inch maximum diameter, round , 0.1 inch thickness maximum, flat (as coins are)
- coin could be iron made, or gold, silver, lead, copper, nickel, aluminium or alloys of that metals ONLY
- unit and antenna must stay in the following dimensions 40cm*40cm *40cm

I can rent a magnetometer that will find an iron coin in this condition from 2 meters. Since we are talking about LRL design that uses coils, I would look only for non-ferrous to support the idea of LRL.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi,
yes you are right... it was only a little provocation.
Could be 2 meters above the coin !
So we can agree the following conditions:


- capable of detecting a coin on surface soil from 2 meters away (so even less than 10 feet)
- coin could be 1inch maximum diameter, round , 0.1 inch thickness maximum, flat (as coins are)
- coin could be made of gold, silver, lead, copper, nickel, aluminium or alloys of that metals ONLY
- unit and antenna must stay in the following dimensions 40cm*40cm*40cm

No iron target.

Is it ok for you ?

But can't see any answer... of him !?
Esteban where are you ?

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Hi,
sorry missing one part:

- capable of detecting a coin on surface soil from 2 meters away (so even less than 10 feet)
- coin could be 1inch maximum diameter, round , 0.1 inch thickness maximum, flat (as coins are)
- coin could be made of gold, silver, lead, copper, nickel, aluminium or alloys of that metals ONLY
- unit and antenna must stay in the following dimensions 40cm*40cm*40cm
, like the ones he had in the pictures and stay in that limited cubic volume
- MUST BE an Esteban's design claimed by him capable of doing that so detecting that single coin from at least 2meters away

It's important that circuit is one of his designs.
Reasons already exposed but repeated here.

MUST BE HIS DESIGN CAUSE: he claimed it's possible and that he have done already, so he must provide one of his original schematic to give the proof.


Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Hi Max,

If I claim I built a detector that can locate a 1 inch dia gold coin on the moon, does this mean I must post the schematic in the forum?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Hi Max,

If I claim I built a detector that can locate a 1 inch dia gold coin on the moon, does this mean I must post the schematic in the forum?

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi,
but so why have you claiming that in this forum?

He claimed his LRLs work, he have done, he designed them etc etc
nobody pushed him to say that things... he wants say that things, he wants make that claims, or not ?

We asked for a "limited" proof of what he said it's possible. Not a thing that can find coins on the Moon. 2 meters are enough to belive his LRLs work for real.

Detecting coins from 2 meters away on surface is not something of great economic value... something you would copy and make in mass production for the TH market. Is it ?
You can use your eyes to find the coin. Or not ?

So, it's still the poker play here ?
Claiming the impossible and then giving no proof of that.
He don't post anything good... just BLUFFING with funny pictures again ?

Oh yes, the SECRET. I see.
If he post a schematic we'll know the SECRET !
Always the same stuff... same game.

I'm open minded... if he'll post a thing like in requirements I'll do what I've said.

But, as always, no answer... so why I haven't to laugh at those pictures ?
Tell me why.

Best regards,
Max

[Qiaozhi]

The trouble is that you guys are too aggressive. Now you've scared Esteban away.
Personally I'm interested to know if Esteban is onto something or not. I don't need a design handed to me on a plate, just a simple experiment would suffice.

Esteban - There are a few things I would like to know.
1. Does the device use a mono-coil arrangement as a receive coil, similar to a PI detector coil, or is it a parabolic dish like the Zahori?
2. What is the frequency band that needs to be monitored?
3. If it's a mono-coil, then why doesn't it get affected by anything behind the coil? i.e interference from the control box, for example.

If you'd rather reply to me in private then that's ok. I will keep all correspondence confidential.
Trust me, I'm an engineer.

[Max]

The trouble is that you guys are too aggressive. Now you've scared Esteban away.
Personally I'm interested to know if Esteban is onto something or not. I don't need a design handed to me on a plate, just a simple experiment would suffice.

Esteban - There are a few things I would like to know.
1. Does the device use a mono-coil arrangement as a receive coil, similar to a PI detector coil, or is it a parabolic dish like the Zahori?
2. What is the frequency band that needs to be monitored?
3. If it's a mono-coil, then why doesn't it get affected by anything behind the coil? i.e interference from the control box, for example.

If you'd rather reply to me in private then that's ok. I will keep all correspondence confidential.
Trust me, I'm an engineer.

Hi Qiaozhi,
do you say that I've scared Esteban ???

"Personally I'm interested to know if Esteban is onto something or not. "

the typo error is funny here... cause seems you're interested in what he's into... I'm sure you aren't.

From my point of view... I'm not interested in his affairs... just of his claims here. I think that there is a connection between many people appeared here to push the LRL fantasies at the extreme, but is just my point of view.

I'm not interested in these things. He could continue support LRLs and brands has he wants... it's not my problem.

But when said that he made this and that, designed, realized LRLs discovered physics or lacks in existent theories... when he claims his LRLs work and then disappears... like Count Dracula, well I'm interested man.

"2. What is the frequency band that needs to be monitored?"

frequency 300KHz, or down to 70KHz he already said that... if you remember.

But do you think he'll send you the schematic ???

"If you'd rather reply to me in private then that's ok. I will keep all correspondence confidential. "

Oh yeah... also me can keep secrets... but here we are in a public place...
if someone claim have done something already IN PUBLIC would be serious having also a PUBLIC discussion or exchange of ideas... not making secret societies between engineers and how knows what.

PUBLIC CLAIMS, PUBLIC DISCUSSION

Everyone here would like to see his design posted.

That's what I think.

Best regards,
Max

[Qiaozhi]

the typo error is funny here... cause seems you're interested in what he's into...

What typo?
I actually wrote: "Personally I'm interested to know if Esteban is onto something or not."

Perhaps your grasp of English is not so good.

[J_Player]

Hi Qiaozhi,

Max is not interested in learning what you want to know. He is here on a witch-hunt to fill the forum with his diatribe anytime somebody gives information that may lead to understanding LRL principles.

From my point of view... I'm not interested in his affairs... just of his claims here.

To better illustrate his purpose, look in his thread titled "Skeptic's Bar (No crappy, no party !)" and other posts he makes using only opinions that often are incongruous to know facts. His purpose is to prove LRLs can't work and criticize anyone who gives any information that could be used to understand something about this topic. Thus, I would not expect esteban to put any details of his discoveries in this forum while Max continues to post here.

However, I don't care what Max might try to launch against me. I have pretty much demonstrated his ignorance and refusal to read about the facts that scientists have observed. In order to give a little information about the questions you are asking without revealing any of esteban's secrets, I will need to jump ahead of my next coming lecture on the physics of buried metals. In fact, we can take another look at a previous post where I talked about the space energies that cause the electric field in the air.

Let's take a look at radio waves in the air around us. There are thousands of radio waves of all frequencies. Some of these are natural from the earth and from outside the earth. A lot of the natural radio noise is caused by movements of physical objects and friction at or near the earth's surface. This radio noise is often very weak, and it often can travel long distances. When we add the extraterrestrial radio noise, much of the natural radio signals are obscured. Then we add man-made radio signals on top of the natural sources, much of the natural radio signal spectrum is hidden in the noise. The man-made noise includes things like electrical noise from power circuitry and switching, but also large amounts of radio signals from transmitted frequencies including broadcast bands and high into the UHF band.

The place to look for your clues is the transmission patterns that these radio waves follow. Many broadcast radio stations will change their antenna patterns in the late afternoon in order to compensate for changes in the ionosphere so hopefully the radio signal will continue to reach the locations where their audience is. This is an example of how solar conditions can change the layers of the ionosphere to influence radio wave patterns.

But what about on the ground? We all have found that our mobile phones have dead spots where they get poor reception. And the same is true of the FM and AM broadcast bands. This phenomenon is not limited to line of sight transmissions. We also have seen how certain objects protruding from the ground are able to reflect radio signals and allow reception in a location that was dead before the reflecting object was placed there. This is often a nuisance when listening to music or TV as we experience "ghosting" or "mushy sounds" that come as a result of multi-path reception from reflections. Consider also the design of some of the older yagi antenna constructions, where passive reflector and director elements are placed at strategic locations in order to help capture the desired signal.

There is another phenomenon that not many people have observed very closely. Certain things under the ground can influence the reception of radio waves as strongly as things above the ground. First, let us suppose there is an area of surface ground that has a minute concentration of metal ions below it (an anomaly in the soil). These ions are becoming bound and de-ionized at the surface unlike the surrounding soil which is more neutral. In addition, there may be a column of ionized soil several centimeters or several kilometers beneath it. This column of ionized material is an anomaly, even if a very trace anomaly. Does buried metal have an influence on the telluric flow of current in the ground? Yes, according to mining exploration companies who measure telluric and magnetotelluric currents to locate geological structures and ores deep in the ground. But what does this have to do with radio waves in the air?

Some people who have spent long hours mapping the radio signal strength above geological structures discovered there are patterns where the radio signals become very strong or very weak depending on anomalies that exist under the ground. This research has always been suspect because of the huge amount of interference from the noise sources mentioned above. Thus the mapping of these subterranean anomalies is not very consistent. The best results are obtained if repeat sampling is done the same time of day after a survey is performed.

One of the subterranean anomalies that was discovered to show a radio signal anomaly at the surface is long-time buried metals. These also are difficult to locate because of the huge amount of noise and interference. The people looking for radio wave signal anomalies are not always fully aware of all the influences that will obscure the anomaly above a long time buried metal object. There are many geological formations beneath the ground that also will cause an anomaly perhaps unknown to the hunter, even when the atmospheric noise conditions are optimum. Thus, we see many failed efforts from these hunters. Among the passive radio anomaly hunting methods, some experimenters have selected from among the existing "noise signals" to track the location of their anomalies, and locate things under the ground.

For the more sophisticated treasure hunting experimenter, The idea of using an active circuit seems appealing. By transmitting a radio wave with either a coil or antenna, the transmitted signal can be controlled precisely. A small transmitter can control the frequency, signal strength, broadcast pattern, etc. to suit the existing conditions. It appears this is what esteban is doing based on the locators he described. If you don't believe there is a radio wave signal strength phenomenon that can be detected above long time buried metals, then you can abandon any further study into the matter. If esteban does not want to divulge the details of his circuitry, then it is his business to keep his circuits private.

There are a number of other researchers who have also discovered this phenomenon, using radio wave surveys as well as by measuring other physical anomalies in the air above buried targets and geological structures. When you look at all the methods mining companies use to survey their land, and make an overlay map, you will see several of the physical surveys have strong correlations, and when used together can lead to 70% or better success rate in finding the ore deposits they are looking for. Some of these same physical properties are capable of influencing the radio signal strength above the ground. In some cases, the influence is not measurable, but does this change when we add a well controlled transmitted signal?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Hi Qiaozhi,


For the more sophisticated treasure hunting experimenter, The idea of using an active circuit seems appealing. By transmitting a radio wave with either a coil or antenna, the transmitted signal can be controlled precisely. A small transmitter can control the frequency, signal strength, broadcast pattern, etc. to suit the existing conditions. It appears this is what esteban is doing based on the locators he described. If you don't believe there is a radio wave signal strength phenomenon that can be detected above long time buried metals, then you can abandon any further study into the matter. If esteban does not want to divulge the details of his circuitry, then it is his business to keep his circuits private.


Best wishes,
J_P

Hi J_P.
I think that you are very near......
Regards

[Qiaozhi]

It appears this is what esteban is doing based on the locators he described. If you don't believe there is a radio wave signal strength phenomenon that can be detected above long time buried metals, then you can abandon any further study into the matter. If esteban does not want to divulge the details of his circuitry, then it is his business to keep his circuits private.

Yes - that is his perogative and, although it would be good to see a circuit, I doubt this will ever happen. In that case I'm just happy with the drip feeding.
If the concept has merit, then it may be worth investing some time to build a prototype to test out the theory, but I'm not going to waste my time on stupid medieval ideas based on divining rods, or the even dafter idea of map dowsing. However, if a fellow experimenter claims that a sort of mid-range detection is possible, it could be worth a look. I'm not holding my breath, but who knows?

[J_Player]

but I'm not going to waste my time on stupid medieval ideas based on divining rods, or the even dafter idea of map dowsing.

Hahahahahaahahaaaaa .

Perhaps a pll controlled electronic pendelum with FET powered peizo actuators and a PIC to run the diaplay and set the controls?

[Max]

What typo?
I actually wrote: "Personally I'm interested to know if Esteban is onto something or not."

Perhaps your grasp of English is not so good.

Hi,
yes maybe.

So you are interested. Fine.

Best regards,
Max

[Max]

Hi Qiaozhi,

Max is not interested in learning what you want to know. He is here on a witch-hunt to fill the forum with his diatribe anytime somebody gives information that may lead to understanding LRL principles. To better illustrate his purpose, look in his thread titled "Skeptic's Bar (No crappy, no party !)" and other posts he makes using only opinions that often are incongruous to know facts. His purpose is to prove LRLs can't work and criticize anyone who gives any information that could be used to understand something about this topic. Thus, I would not expect esteban to put any details of his discoveries in this forum while Max continues to post here.

However, I don't care what Max might try to launch against me. I have pretty much demonstrated his ignorance and refusal to read about the facts that scientists have observed. In order to give a little information about the questions you are asking without revealing any of esteban's secrets, I will need to jump ahead of my next coming lecture on the physics of buried metals. In fact, we can take another look at a previous post where I talked about the space energies that cause the electric field in the air.

Let's take a look at radio waves in the air around us. There are thousands of radio waves of all frequencies. Some of these are natural from the earth and from outside the earth. A lot of the natural radio noise is caused by movements of physical objects and friction at or near the earth's surface. This radio noise is often very weak, and it often can travel long distances. When we add the extraterrestrial radio noise, much of the natural radio signals are obscured. Then we add man-made radio signals on top of the natural sources, much of the natural radio signal spectrum is hidden in the noise. The man-made noise includes things like electrical noise from power circuitry and switching, but also large amounts of radio signals from transmitted frequencies including broadcast bands and high into the UHF band.

The place to look for your clues is the transmission patterns that these radio waves follow. Many broadcast radio stations will change their antenna patterns in the late afternoon in order to compensate for changes in the ionosphere so hopefully the radio signal will continue to reach the locations where their audience is. This is an example of how solar conditions can change the layers of the ionosphere to influence radio wave patterns.

But what about on the ground? We all have found that our mobile phones have dead spots where they get poor reception. And the same is true of the FM and AM broadcast bands. This phenomenon is not limited to line of sight transmissions. We also have seen how certain objects protruding from the ground are able to reflect radio signals and allow reception in a location that was dead before the reflecting object was placed there. This is often a nuisance when listening to music or TV as we experience "ghosting" or "mushy sounds" that come as a result of multi-path reception from reflections. Consider also the design of some of the older yagi antenna constructions, where passive reflector and director elements are placed at strategic locations in order to help capture the desired signal.

There is another phenomenon that not many people have observed very closely. Certain things under the ground can influence the reception of radio waves as strongly as things above the ground. First, let us suppose there is an area of surface ground that has a minute concentration of metal ions below it (an anomaly in the soil). These ions are becoming bound and de-ionized at the surface unlike the surrounding soil which is more neutral. In addition, there may be a column of ionized soil several centimeters or several kilometers beneath it. This column of ionized material is an anomaly, even if a very trace anomaly. Does buried metal have an influence on the telluric flow of current in the ground? Yes, according to mining exploration companies who measure telluric and magnetotelluric currents to locate geological structures and ores deep in the ground. But what does this have to do with radio waves in the air?

Some people who have spent long hours mapping the radio signal strength above geological structures discovered there are patterns where the radio signals become very strong or very weak depending on anomalies that exist under the ground. This research has always been suspect because of the huge amount of interference from the noise sources mentioned above. Thus the mapping of these subterranean anomalies is not very consistent. The best results are obtained if repeat sampling is done the same time of day after a survey is performed.

One of the subterranean anomalies that was discovered to show a radio signal anomaly at the surface is long-time buried metals. These also are difficult to locate because of the huge amount of noise and interference. The people looking for radio wave signal anomalies are not always fully aware of all the influences that will obscure the anomaly above a long time buried metal object. There are many geological formations beneath the ground that also will cause an anomaly perhaps unknown to the hunter, even when the atmospheric noise conditions are optimum. Thus, we see many failed efforts from these hunters. Among the passive radio anomaly hunting methods, some experimenters have selected from among the existing "noise signals" to track the location of their anomalies, and locate things under the ground.

For the more sophisticated treasure hunting experimenter, The idea of using an active circuit seems appealing. By transmitting a radio wave with either a coil or antenna, the transmitted signal can be controlled precisely. A small transmitter can control the frequency, signal strength, broadcast pattern, etc. to suit the existing conditions. It appears this is what esteban is doing based on the locators he described. If you don't believe there is a radio wave signal strength phenomenon that can be detected above long time buried metals, then you can abandon any further study into the matter. If esteban does not want to divulge the details of his circuitry, then it is his business to keep his circuits private.

There are a number of other researchers who have also discovered this phenomenon, using radio wave surveys as well as by measuring other physical anomalies in the air above buried targets and geological structures. When you look at all the methods mining companies use to survey their land, and make an overlay map, you will see several of the physical surveys have strong correlations, and when used together can lead to 70% or better success rate in finding the ore deposits they are looking for. Some of these same physical properties are capable of influencing the radio signal strength above the ground. In some cases, the influence is not measurable, but does this change when we add a well controlled transmitted signal?

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi JP,
I don't wanna be polemic here BUT
"Max is not interested in learning what you want to know. He is here on a witch-hunt to fill the forum with his diatribe anytime somebody gives information that may lead to understanding LRL principles. To better illustrate his purpose, look in his thread titled "Skeptic's Bar (No crappy, no party !)" and other posts he makes using only opinions that often are incongruous to know facts. His purpose is to prove LRLs can't work and criticize anyone who gives any information that could be used to understand something about this topic. Thus, I would not expect esteban to put any details of his discoveries in this forum while Max continues to post here."

Oh man... so I'm the problem now ???

Esteban don't answer our questions , disappears like Count Dracula.... and I'm the problem ???

"He is here on a witch-hunt to fill the forum with his diatribe anytime somebody gives information that may lead to understanding LRL principles. "

Eh ? anytime somebody gives information that may lead ...??? which informations ??? 300KHz ? this is the information ?
Or 80Khz ? BLA BLA BLA

Esteban disappeared... and don't provide any good information... that's why you are upset with me ?
Ask him... if you'll find I mean... must be somewhere in SouthAmerica.

"To better illustrate his purpose, look in his thread titled "Skeptic's Bar (No crappy, no party !)" and other posts he makes using only opinions that often are incongruous to know facts."

Some are facts not opinions or jokes.
For example: FBI sued Quadro... this is a fact !
Quadro Tracker is a piece of empty plastic... this is a fact !
Quantico's labs say that, not me ! Fact.

"His purpose is to prove LRLs can't work and criticize anyone who gives any information that could be used to understand something about this topic."

No, no... I asked Esteban to post a schematic. I promised I'll excuse with him, and admit he's right on LRLs if posted schematic/plan work to detect a coin ,on surface soil, from 2 meters away . Read the previous posts by me.

You cannot say that "my purpose is prove LRLs can't work" cause of the request above... no, no.

Ask yourself why he don't post it instead.

"who gives any information that could be used to understand something about this topic"

Eh ??? Who is that person ???
Esteban disappeared, can't you remember?
Where is he ?

"Thus, I would not expect esteban to put any details of his discoveries in this forum while Max continues to post here."

Oh yeah... it's me... yeah.

What to say... your only argumentation about the FACT Esteban isn't posting anything and is missing in action... is that's my fault.

Great. Very clever.

Kind regards,
Max