Mineoro 2-Box -- 492 feet range?

[Palamedes]

some of other minor demons..

Why someone has to name other one in the discussion for to discredited him?

As I can see the demons are: Esteban, Hung and Dell... and other minor demons...

.. some demons can be usefull for treasure hunting and also other hobbies.
From Lesser Key of Solomon, Lemegeton - Goetia (Translated by Mathers)

[Fred]

No Fred. It smells honesty. It smells discretion and respect for other's own inventions and work. Much different from the rotten smell some exibit here trying to steal the efforts of sweat and hard work from others.

By saying "it smell hung´s [explanations]", i did not say it was not compatible with honesty or discretion.You did.you are probably right.
What i meant is those explanations were unclear , not logical .Like Hung´s.
Why those LRL´s are such a secret?.IB or PI are no secret, detectors are patented and everything is fine,constructors sell thousands of them because their technology is TRUSTABLE and well known.
Of course half a dozen guys are building their own (IB´s or PI´s) but what it is in comparaison with the quantities of detectors that could be sold if their reliability could be proven?

Esteban, i dont understand your last comment.who has discredited what?

Regards,
Fred.

[Esteban]

Some parameters

This device is sensitive for interference in the cities. Strong sparks causes false alarms. Good for inland.

[J_Player]

Long post alert!

Perhaps we should review patents.
By patenting an idea. we do not make it secret. We release the secret to all the world to read about and understand. The patent registration is a document that shows all the world the details of what the inventor discovered, and grants the inventor the right to sue anyone who uses his patented idea for commercial profit without paying him for the right to use his idea. When we hear that a patented concept has been licensed, this means the holder of the patent has issued a license to someone else to use their patented idea. Licenses are usually issued with contracts that specify the licensee must pay a portion of their profits back to the person who registered the patent.

Patents will grant legal rights to the inventor only in the jurisdiction where the patent is registered. ie: a Brazilian patent does not give any legal rights to the inventor in Europe, North America, or Asia. Nor does it grant him rights in other South American countries. In order to get patent protection in Venezuela, the inventor would need to register his patent in Venezuela.

So the patent is only a legal registration where the inventor registers his right to take legal actions against anyone who uses the idea he patents commercially. And anyone who wants to read the details of how the inventor's concept can simply look up the patent and read the text, and look at the pictures. Anyone in the world is free to use these ideas in his shop to tinker and experiment, as long as they don't use this idea for commercial purposes in the country where the patent is registered.

An alternative to patenting an idea is to keep the idea as a trade secret. If the inventor does not patent his idea, then nobody will read the details or reproduce it in his own shop unless he discovered the same idea on his own. Trade secrets are often used because they dont require that the inventor disclose his idea for all the world to see, and they do not incur large legal fees to get the idea registered.

Aside from the legal ramifications, we are talking about a circuit design that the inventor probably does not want made public. If Esteban is a relative of the inventor, wouldn't it seem natural for him to want to respect his relative/friend's wish to keep his ideas and work private?

If I helped a friend with a series of projects, and I asked him not to reveal the details of the projects, then I would not feel good about my friend if I discovered he posted all the details on an internet forum. I see no reason to pressure Esteban to publish the circuitry under these circumstances, as it appears Alonso is the person to ask if you must have this circuit. Better yet, if he patented the circuitry, why not simply read his patent and see how it works there?

My experience in this forum is Esteban has provided more circuit details of obscure circuitry from present and antique devices than anyone else. Has anyone else shown as much detail where we can experiment for ourselves and tinker with circuits that he posts? Esteban has has shown component values and modifications he made with performance results of his field tests. The only time I have seen Esteban refuse to post details is in connection with proprietary technology that he does not own or have permission to disclose. If you think about it, nobody else has come close to his dedication to helping experimenters in the remote sensing section except perhaps Geo, or maybe Ivconic, for the short time he posted here.

And while we're on the subject, a big thank you to Esteban for his years of unrelenting service to the experimenters in this forum.

Best wishes,
J_P

[michael]

Hi to all especially to Morgan and Esteban.
first of all, Morgan, thank you for your humbly helps and sharing info here.
Dear Esteban, Please do this big favor and let to others have the schematic. like you did before in Zahori. let to Morgan put it here
as he observes and commits the moral rules. I'm sure other nice electronic experts here like Ivconic will do better things on it to promote it, this is a real corporation. and beneficial for all like as yourself. share us in your happiness.
and be shared in our future happiness. surely all people will be grateful and never forget your favor as happened before about Zahori.

[Qiaozhi]

Yes ozzy, I want to see you implore, beg on your knees for a working LRL schematic and shout it out loud: 'Please, someone, anyone hand me a working LRL schematic, I just can't wait longer in desperation banging my head on the wall everyday!!"

Actually, going by past experience with the Remote Sensing Forum, I'm not expecting to ever receive anything useful here. However, this device recently posted by Morgan is an interesting gizmo. It would be a shame if we couldn't discover the "idea" behind its supposed method of operation.

[Morgan]

Pistoldetektor-

Because only small part of another ferrite has coil. In the first pistol (red of avatar) was 2 ferrites and coil only a portion of another ferrite. As Alonso has many variation and invention each day (he, he!!!) is difficult to know if there are important changes.

Some pictures of this circuits

[Qiaozhi]

Some parameters

This device is sensitive for interference in the cities. Strong sparks causes false alarms. Good for inland.

F in coil = 62kHz.

Morgan stated that the coil is from a Garrett Groundhog, which is a VLF/TR. If I remember correctly, this is a 15kHz machine. Is this still being used as an induction balance coil? With the other (ferrite rod based) oscillator tuned to the same frequency, it appears to be more like a BFO.

[Morgan]

LRL schematic

I'm having some trouble deciding whereabouts the 6 boards are in this device.
Please see attached image. Am I correct?

Hello
After take note of all electronic components,i get this conclusion:
Its dificult to build a replica of this device because of two ferrit and antenna,but anyway i will try to make one for me...
I would like to share schematic with people here,and i think maybe someone here increase performance.I´m afraid to be acused to put public a registrated patent.Maybe i can put only elect.circuitry and not info about antenna and ferrit...
I make more tests with this device and it beeps also in old aluminium cokacola can at 5m,40cm deep,unfortunly not only GOLD...

[Fred]

Hi J_player,
All OK .

If I helped a friend with a series of projects, and I asked him not to reveal the details of the projects, then I would not feel good about my friend if I discovered he posted all the details on an internet forum. I see no reason to pressure Esteban to publish the circuitry under these circumstances, as it appears Alonso is the person to ask if you must have this circuit. Better yet, if he patented the circuitry, why not simply read his patent and see how it works there?

For the first time i see an interesting "LRL" circuit here.The construction is obviously genuine, unlike in other devices.Knowing more about it i could understand better all those pictures showing guys in Brazil with coins and pistols MD in their hands.So i am really interested by the principles, (not necessarily by the diagram), and everything that could help to decide Esteban , not to publish the circuit, but to authorize other to do it, seem logical to me .
I obviously 100% respect his decision , i am sure he understand this is nothing personnal ,but real information about LRL has been scarce here, and he is one of the few that has provided some true information.

Thanks to Morgan for his efforts and the new pics.Força Esteban!
Regards!,
Fred.

[Morgan]

Test with gold medal

Hi J_player,
All OK .



For the first time i see an interesting "LRL" circuit here.The construction is obviously genuine, unlike in other devices.Knowing more about it i could understand better all those pictures showing guys in Brazil with coins and pistols MD in their hands.So i am really interested by the principles, (not necessarily by the diagram), and everything that could help to decide Esteban , not to publish the circuit, but to authorize other to do it, seem logical to me .
I obviously 100% respect his decision , i am sure he understand this is nothing personnal ,but real information about LRL has been scarce here, and he is one of the few that has provided some true information.

Thanks to Morgan for his efforts and the new pics.Força Esteban!
Regards!,
Fred.

Hello
Yes,i hope Esteban decide something about publish schematic...
I try this device in my field test and get clear signal on medal buried 20 years ago,3m distance the first beeps,1m distance the last beeps,until stop,and than needs adjustment again, its dificult to pinpoint, but i find easy way to pinpoit.Once i get the signal and direction i turn the antenna to ground and walk until get the beeps again

[Qiaozhi]

Hello
After take note of all electronic components,i get this conclusion:
Its dificult to build a replica of this device because of two ferrit and antenna,but anyway i will try to make one for me...
I would like to share schematic with people here,and i think maybe someone here increase performance.I´m afraid to be acused to put public a registrated patent.Maybe i can put only elect.circuitry and not info about antenna and ferrit...
I make more tests with this device and it beeps also in old aluminium cokacola can at 5m,40cm deep,unfortunly not only GOLD...

Hello
Yes,i hope Esteban decide something about publish schematic...
I try this device in my field test and get clear signal on medal buried 20 years ago,3m distance the first beeps,1m distance the last beeps,until stop,and than needs adjustment again, its dificult to pinpoint, but i find easy way to pinpoit.Once i get the signal and direction i turn the antenna to ground and walk until get the beeps again.

Hi Morgan,

Are you planning to publish the schematic? First you said you would like to share the schematic, so that we can help improve the performance. Then you implied that you're waiting for Esteban to publish it. Now I confused...

In fact, I'm not going to be heartbroken if you don't publish it, even though you won't be infringing any patents if you do. As Fred said earlier, we are only really interested in the underlying principle. For example, with the coil arrangement as shown, this looks more like a compact (handheld) version of a two-box detector. A similar setup is shown in Charles Rakes' book (Balanced-Amplifier Locator) on page 101. This circuit uses an air-cored coil for the TX and a ferrite core for the RX. But, in the pistol detector, it looks more like a BFO, with the preset tuning performed by adjusting the gap between the two ferrite rods.
I don't doubt that this pistol detector works like a conventional detector, but whether it can detect anything at a great distance is another story.

[Morgan]

Hello
Its a question of some respect for people who work in this project for some decades,and i´m sure Esteban its envolved on this pistoldetektor technology.Anyway this is only the begining of the iceberg,he will teach to us the underlying principle of this device...

[J_Player]

I would like to share schematic with people here,and i think maybe someone here increase performance.I´m afraid to be acused to put public a registrated patent.Maybe i can put only elect.circuitry and not info about antenna and ferrit...

If the circuit for the ferrite coil has been patented, then it is already published for the public in the patent disclosure. If the schematics are already available for the public to see, then there is no reason not to show the circuit which is already available.

You will find a lot of patented circuits for metal detecting already posted in the Geotech forums if you look here: http://geotech.thunting.com/cgi-bin/...le=patents.dat

As you can see, there is no problem posting circuits which are patented and shown to the world from the diagrams in the patent office.

Best wishes,
J_P

[hung]

Configuration of the ferrite coil has nothing to do and it was not made in search of inductance or permeability.
It was made for a special 'Q'.