Carl MFD article ,5KHZ frequency ?

[aft_72005]

The Facts About NMR

A common claim with MFD proponents is that "all elements have a natural frequency" and will either resonate with other like elements, or can be made to resonate with a properly tuned signal generator. MFD proponents often point to the fact that all elements have a property called "nuclear magnetic resonance" and, therefore, the concept of resonance is entirely scientific.

Yes, it is true that all elements have an NMR frequency. You can go to WebElements and click on an element, then click the NMR link to the left side. For gold, you will find that the NMR frequency is 1.754000MHz, and that this entry includes the statement "relative to 1H = 100 (MHz)". What does this mean?

It turns out the NMR frequency for any given element is dependent on the static magnetic field the element is exposed to. For gold, the magnetic field that produces an NMR frequency of 1.754MHz is the same field that produces an NMR frequency of 100MHz for hydrogen.

What is this field? With a little effort, you will find the field strength to be roughly 2.35 Teslas. So for hydrogen, 2.35T yields an NMR frequency of 100MHz. 4.7T will result in an NMR frequency of 200MHz. In other words, the NMR frequency is proportional to the magnetic field.

What about the Earth's natural magnetic field? This varies from place-to-place, but 50 microTeslas (uT) is a fair average strength. So the magnetic field strength of 2.35T is a whopping 47,000 times stronger than the Earth's field. Working the other way, we can find that the NMR frequency of hydrogen exposed to the Earth's field is a mere 2.13kHz. And guess what? That's exactly the frequency we get from a proton precession magnetometer! Most PPM's use hydrogen-rich water as the precession medium, and it is the hydrogen that is doing the precessing. Variations in the Earth's field due to iron targets change the precession frequency, exactly because the NMR frequency varies with field strength.

So gold has an NMR frequency of 1.754MHz at 2.35T, which means at 50uT it will have an NMR frequency of only 37 Hz or so. So if any MFD were being true to the NMR property, it would use 37Hz for gold. Not 5kHz. Now, some MFD manufacturers talk about resonating elements at a harmonic (or, sometimes, a "sub-harmonic") frequency. Although 5kHz is roughly the 135th harmonic of 37Hz, it is far, far less efficient to try to resonate something at a harmonic rather than the fundamental. Anyone who has used 3rd overtone crystals is aware of this, and claiming resonance at the 135th harmonic is just plain absurd.

So now that we know what the real frequency of resonance should be, we can proceed with a gold detector, right? Not so fast. Let's go back to the proton mag. How does a PPM detect the precession frequency of water? Well, typically a small bottle of water is placed INSIDE a fairly hefty coil. The coil serves two purposes. First, water just sitting around has its molecules all randomly oriented, so that even if they were "resonating", there would be no net signal due to an overall cancelation of all the little signals. So the coil is hit with a large transient current, which generates a large magnetic field, which serves to align at least some of the water molecules. Then, with the transient field removed, the coil becomes a receiver to detect the very, very weak precession signal from the water.

So in order to utilize NMR, we need to "ping" the target to get it to precess, much like hitting a bell with a clapper. Then, we need a way to detect the precession signal, which is incredibly weak. With PPM, both of these are only accomplished when the water is INSIDE the coil. The same is true with hospital MRI machines... the patient is slid INSIDE a humongous coil.

In the end, the concept of trying to remotely resonate buried targets is just bogus. It is like trying to boil water with a microwave oven, by placing the water 100 meters from the oven, and then running the oven on a 9-volt battery. Ain't gonna happen.

- Carl

Hi Carl, Max , and all
Carl, Your opinions completely correct and true.
I had more study about NMR and molecular resonance ,but
Cannot find any relation between MFD for treasure hunting
And Laboratory NMR .
Best regards .

[hung]

The Facts About NMR

A common claim with MFD proponents is that "all elements have a natural frequency" and will either resonate with other like elements, or can be made to resonate with a properly tuned signal generator. MFD proponents often point to the fact that all elements have a property called "nuclear magnetic resonance" and, therefore, the concept of resonance is entirely scientific.

Yes, it is true that all elements have an NMR frequency. You can go to WebElements and click on an element, then click the NMR link to the left side. For gold, you will find that the NMR frequency is 1.754000MHz, and that this entry includes the statement "relative to 1H = 100 (MHz)". What does this mean?

It turns out the NMR frequency for any given element is dependent on the static magnetic field the element is exposed to. For gold, the magnetic field that produces an NMR frequency of 1.754MHz is the same field that produces an NMR frequency of 100MHz for hydrogen.

What is this field? With a little effort, you will find the field strength to be roughly 2.35 Teslas. So for hydrogen, 2.35T yields an NMR frequency of 100MHz. 4.7T will result in an NMR frequency of 200MHz. In other words, the NMR frequency is proportional to the magnetic field.

What about the Earth's natural magnetic field? This varies from place-to-place, but 50 microTeslas (uT) is a fair average strength. So the magnetic field strength of 2.35T is a whopping 47,000 times stronger than the Earth's field. Working the other way, we can find that the NMR frequency of hydrogen exposed to the Earth's field is a mere 2.13kHz. And guess what? That's exactly the frequency we get from a proton precession magnetometer! Most PPM's use hydrogen-rich water as the precession medium, and it is the hydrogen that is doing the precessing. Variations in the Earth's field due to iron targets change the precession frequency, exactly because the NMR frequency varies with field strength.

So gold has an NMR frequency of 1.754MHz at 2.35T, which means at 50uT it will have an NMR frequency of only 37 Hz or so. So if any MFD were being true to the NMR property, it would use 37Hz for gold. Not 5kHz.

Wrong.

Now, some MFD manufacturers talk about resonating elements at a harmonic (or, sometimes, a "sub-harmonic") frequency. Although 5kHz is roughly the 135th harmonic of 37Hz, it is far, far less efficient to try to resonate something at a harmonic rather than the fundamental. Anyone who has used 3rd overtone crystals is aware of this, and claiming resonance at the 135th harmonic is just plain absurd.

Partly correct. It depends on many things. But your overall conclusion does not apply.

So now that we know what the real frequency of resonance should be, we can proceed with a gold detector, right? Not so fast. Let's go back to the proton mag. How does a PPM detect the precession frequency of water? Well, typically a small bottle of water is placed INSIDE a fairly hefty coil. The coil serves two purposes. First, water just sitting around has its molecules all randomly oriented, so that even if they were "resonating", there would be no net signal due to an overall cancelation of all the little signals. So the coil is hit with a large transient current, which generates a large magnetic field, which serves to align at least some of the water molecules. Then, with the transient field removed, the coil becomes a receiver to detect the very, very weak precession signal from the water.

Incorrect comparison.

So in order to utilize NMR, we need to "ping" the target to get it to precess, much like hitting a bell with a clapper. Then, we need a way to detect the precession signal, which is incredibly weak. With PPM, both of these are only accomplished when the water is INSIDE the coil. The same is true with hospital MRI machines... the patient is slid INSIDE a humongous coil.

In the end, the concept of trying to remotely resonate buried targets is just bogus. It is like trying to boil water with a microwave oven, by placing the water 100 meters from the oven, and then running the oven on a 9-volt battery. Ain't gonna happen.

Wrong conclusion. Unfortunate comparison.

- Carl

I agree with you. As I don't want to debate this theme here, I don't have the right to state anything further to prejudice your line of thought. Keep researching.
One thing to note. It took 2 plus years to a member of this forums finally admit ionic activity in buried metals. Just like Mineoro claimed, results from work of both inventors for 50 years.
So in about 5 years, I think enough information will be gathered to permit a clearer discussion. Not talking of NMR . Talking other things.
Regards.

[J_Player]

One thing to note. It took 2 plus years to a member of this forums finally admit ionic activity in buried metals. Just like Mineoro claimed, results from work of both inventors for 50 years.

Just exactly who are you referring to as the member who "took 2 plus years to finally admit ionic activity in buried metals"? You aren't claiming this member is me, are you?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

I agree with you. As I don't want to debate this theme here, I don't have the right to state anything further to prejudice your line of thought. Keep researching.
One thing to note. It took 2 plus years to a member of this forums finally admit ionic activity in buried metals. Just like Mineoro claimed, results from work of both inventors for 50 years.
So in about 5 years, I think enough information will be gathered to permit a clearer discussion. Not talking of NMR . Talking other things.
Regards.

Hi Hung,
"One thing to note. It took 2 plus years to a member of this forums finally admit ionic activity in buried metals. Just like Mineoro claimed, results from work of both inventors for 50 years."

No you said that detection was due to ions in air detected by Mineoro's devices... all we know that this is false.

There aren't airborn ions , in normal conditions, and there isn't any ion "chamber" (trap would be the right terminology) in the mineoro's ... but just a strange potted pvc pipe with brass and gold plating... nothing to detect ions ! Also many thing are related to radio-works that have nothing to do with ionic detection.

Mineoro's don't detect any ion, but just broadband noise.
Mineoro's claims are pure science-fiction.

Ionic activity of buried metals is not in discussion, there are proofs of that.
Problem is that there aren't airborn ions e.g. of gold and there isn't a device capable of really carry out LRLocation.

Your claim of using a mineoro from your car moving is a clear false assertion, impossible claim, cause of the broadband noise saturation you'll get by ignition sparks...as I've already showed here.

If you can ear sparks noise with an e.g. AM-radio why don't with the mineoro ?
Cause many parts of mineoro's pdc we can see in picture are actually things that one could find in old am-radios...same stuff... even germanium-diodes are there!

2xOA89 man ! Apart the MCU...seems designed with stuff of the 70's !

Also some Estebans claims of using e.g. an ir-led + an FM-radio as LRL detector seems go in same direction... and what a concidence !

Some ,older BFO and OFF-RES are based on beating frequencies the same you get in AM radio... and IF-mixers of FM receivers (heterodyne-style) so no big surprise for me to see such assertion by Esteban.

But you still talk of ion fantasies. You're sick !
I'm the cure.

ALL BS.

Kind regards,
Max

[hung]

No you said that detection was due to ions in air detected by Mineoro's devices... all we know that this is false.

No. It's not false. You don't understand the ion subject completely. That's it.

There aren't airborn ions , in normal conditions, and there isn't any ion "chamber" (trap would be the right terminology) in the mineoro's ... but just a strange potted pvc pipe with brass and gold plating... nothing to detect ions ! Also many thing are related to radio-works that have nothing to do with ionic detection.

It may not be an ionic chamber 'per se' in your own definition, but still it's an ionic chamber afterall.

Mineoro's don't detect any ion, but just broadband noise.
Mineoro's claims are pure science-fiction.~/quote]

This is not true, although broadband noise interferes. See bellow.

Ionic activity of buried metals is not in discussion, there are proofs of that.
Problem is that there aren't airborn ions e.g. of gold and there isn't a device capable of really carry out LRLocation.

Sorry. You're wrong. Simply as that.

[quoteYour claim of using a mineoro from your car moving is a clear false assertion, impossible claim, cause of the broadband noise saturation you'll get by ignition sparks...as I've already showed here.

You get interference only if you point it to the source of ignition, otherwise, not. It's directional. You have to keep it 90 deg from source to avoid interferences.
In fact I already detected targets from car dozens of times. The gold vein was detected this way last week.

If you can ear sparks noise with an e.g. AM-radio why don't with the mineoro ?

The Mineoro also receive those. Far away lightinings from storms too.

Cause many parts of mineoro's pdc we can see in picture are actually things that one could find in old am-radios...same stuff... even germanium-diodes are there!

First, what is shown is not the PDC. It's a model which served as link to the FG80. But it works (or at least it used to).

But you still talk of ion fantasies.

Maybe fantasies for you. But to me, this 'fantasies' turn into profit of the objects I find.

You're sick !

Thanks.

I'm the cure.

Not really...

Today is my day off. That's why I'm here having fun just for a while...

Kind regards,
Max

Kind feelings to you too.

[Max]

a new word in dictionary: nonscientist

No. It's not false. You don't understand the ion subject completely. That's it.



It may not be an ionic chamber 'per se' in your own definition, but still it's an ionic chamber afterall.



You get interference only if you point it to the source of ignition, otherwise, not. It's directional. You have to keep it 90 deg from source to avoid interferences.
In fact I already detected targets from car dozens of times. The gold vein was detected this way last week.



The Mineoro also receive those. Far away lightinings from storms too.



First, what is shown is not the PDC. It's a model which served as link to the FG80. But it works (or at least it used to).




Maybe fantasies for you. But to me, this 'fantasies' turn into profit of the objects I find.



Thanks.


Not really...

Today is my day off. That's why I'm here having fun just for a while...



Kind feelings to you too.

Hi,
"It may not be an ionic chamber 'per se' in your own definition, but still it's an ionic chamber afterall."

This is new ! it's a ionic chamber "afterall"...oh wow ! now I'm really lost in space ! Is it a ionic chamber or not !? There isn't a middle way !

"You get interference only if you point it to the source of ignition, otherwise, not. It's directional. You have to keep it 90 deg from source to avoid interferences. "

This is false. You condradict yourself with this assertion, cause you many times reported that the unit must be used following the "reflected" signal, using the famous angles Esteban and all the other nonscientists talk about to locate the target, so you said before, indirectly, that unit isn't directional.

"You have to keep it 90 deg from source to avoid interferences. "

This is absolutely impossible using your hand, mineoro and a car.
Even assuming the unit totally directional is IMPOSSIBLE holding the mineoro at exact 90degrees angle position respect the noise source.

BS.

In the car the broadband noise due to the sparks and the strong magnetic field related create eddy-currents that run in the metallic surfaces at engine, then propagate on surface of metallic parts of the whole car, thus creating a noisy environment. The huge transients generate noise also in the electrical paths in the whole car... as any car-audio entusiast well know.

Not only... a huge amount of pure RF noise is generated by the sparks themselves... without any need of other coupling to saturate any mineoro or the like.

Mineoro's can't be used in a car with engine running. You'll ear only noise from the engine. It's a fact.

All people experimented with mineoro reported that units are really prone to electrical noise, from e.g. tv-set, power-lines, ionizers... all cause of broadband omnidirectional receiver they really are. Same happens with the zahori I've tested... just as another coincidence !

Using Mineoro's from a car with engine on = fantasies.

"The Mineoro also receive those. Far away lightinings from storms too."

Here we are... ! And all other noise too.

"First, what is shown is not the PDC. It's a model which served as link to the FG80. But it works (or at least it used to). "

Was PDC, read the label and Mineoro's logo on the internal !

Also you need googles ???

What else ???

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

labeled cdm-210 outside... but then the SECRET POTTED CIRCUIT said PDC!

I think that change absolutely nothing! For me are all the same thing.

Nonsense , nonworking devices.

I'm the cure !

[Esteban]

One more time, metals emit infrared. Sure.

... well-painted metals. Unoxidized bare metals have emissivities below about 0.3 and should not be measured. Oxidized metals have emissivities ranging from about 0.5 to 0.9, and are the problematic category due to the large range of values. The degree of oxidation is a key ingredient to an object’s emissivity. The higher the oxidation, the higher the emissivity.


What coincidence! No?


More:

Objects generally emit infrared radiation across a spectrum of wavelengths, but only a specific region of the spectrum is of interest because sensors are usually designed only to collect radiation within a specific bandwidth. As a result, the infrared band is often subdivided into smaller sections. There are no standard divisions, but a commonly used scheme is...:

And tons and tons....

Is easy to find info in the net about IR emission of metals, wich deppends also of his termal conductivity.

You're not prepared for to discuss this: first, because you no investigate, you believe you know about the things, but no. And second and more important: you never experiment in it, except when you press a button of your TV remote control.

And more Max: no need high energies, no high energies IR sources, simple IR leds or laser leds do the job.

AND MORE: I have the key of it!

You're the cure, Medice cure te ipsum!

[hung]

Hi,
In the car the broadband noise due to the sparks and the strong magnetic field related create eddy-currents that run in the metallic surfaces at engine, then propagate on surface of metallic parts of the whole car, thus creating a noisy environment. The huge transients generate noise also in the electrical paths in the whole car... as any car-audio entusiast well know.

Max

C'mon Max, you're smarter than that.
Sure the PDC will beep as soon as you turn the engine on. In my own car it even captures the electronic signals to the car's computer some seconds after the engine on. But after that, it remains silent as expected. I use it positioned over the right seat's window base, pointing outside. If the deivce is turned to point the car's coil for instance it will beep for sure.
You will confirm that with any Mineoro user. Even Carl.
If it worked as you claim above it would be uselless to work in a car and even useless as gold detector. Get real.

As for the PDC, you said it all yourself... 'It's the CDM-210', not the PDC210. Go back to that thread and find the explanation Damasio gave regarding this model.

Well, case closed for me on both subjects.

[hung]

Hey Esteban,

I see you are a patient person. Congratulations. I'm not.

[J_Player]

One thing to note. It took 2 plus years to a member of this forums finally admit ionic activity in buried metals. Just like Mineoro claimed, results from work of both inventors for 50 years.

So who is the mystery member you are referring to? Did somebody finally admit this like you said, or is it another of your fabrications you expect people to believe?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

Also gold forms molecular structures, 13, 14, 19, etc., atoms, for example. As molecules vibrates, also atoms vibrates in singular signature for each element.

Type in the net gold molecules and you will find info.

[Esteban]

Hey Esteban,

I see you are a patient person. Congratulations. I'm not.

Hi Hung,

Ehhh... this boy need to be redirected to the school. He can't discuss in the minimum range here.

[hung]

So who is the mystery member you are referring to? Did somebody finally admit this like you said, or is it another of your fabrications you expect people to believe?

Best wishes,
J_P

Who's the one posting links about ionic activity of metals lately?
You tell me.

[hung]

Also gold forms molecular structures, 13, 14, 19, etc., atoms, for example. As molecules vibrates, also atoms vibrates in singular signature for each element.

Type in the net gold molecules and you will find info.

Esteban, our research brought some relevant info on this. We can talk trough email if you wish.
Regards.