Carl MFD article ,5KHZ frequency ?

[Max]

C'mon Max, you're smarter than that.
Sure the PDC will beep as soon as you turn the engine on. In my own car it even captures the electronic signals to the car's computer some seconds after the engine on. But after that, it remains silent as expected. I use it positioned over the right seat's window base, pointing outside. If the deivce is turned to point the car's coil for instance it will beep for sure.
You will confirm that with any Mineoro user. Even Carl.
If it worked as you claim above it would be uselless to work in a car and even useless as gold detector. Get real.

As for the PDC, you said it all yourself... 'It's the CDM-210', not the PDC210. Go back to that thread and find the explanation Damasio gave regarding this model.

Well, case closed for me on both subjects.

Hi Hung,
you continue with nonsense... good.

These things cannot be used in cars with engine on. You intentionally disinformate people. I'm not an owner of mineoro's devices but I'm sure some serious people having it will confirm that.

I have no interest saying that can't be used in such conditions cause of any problems with you or mineoro: just to serve the truth. Nothing more.

I've not bought a mineoro or other LRL stuff... I'm not a competitor... and just speak about facts.

Then you can use it aware of your car as you want... if you belive it works.
Fine for me.
But please don't say here to others things that aren't so.

You knows perfectly that in a car with engine on the mineoro's and many other claimed working LRL cannot be turned on.

"If it worked as you claim above it would be uselless to work in a car and even useless as gold detector. Get real."

I'm real. Actually IT IS USELESS.

"As for the PDC, you said it all yourself... 'It's the CDM-210', not the PDC210."

Change nothing. The unit was manifactured by Mineoro and claimed working LRL... so what difference if you call it John or Mary ?

3 letters are the difference ? Alexis explained that is a total CRAP. Can't detect anything but noise... then dismantled it to show us what's inside...
and we saw the PVC water-pipe... the one you still claim being a "ion chamber".

ALL BS.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

One more time, metals emit infrared. Sure.

... well-painted metals. Unoxidized bare metals have emissivities below about 0.3 and should not be measured. Oxidized metals have emissivities ranging from about 0.5 to 0.9, and are the problematic category due to the large range of values. The degree of oxidation is a key ingredient to an object’s emissivity. The higher the oxidation, the higher the emissivity.


What coincidence! No?


More:

Objects generally emit infrared radiation across a spectrum of wavelengths, but only a specific region of the spectrum is of interest because sensors are usually designed only to collect radiation within a specific bandwidth. As a result, the infrared band is often subdivided into smaller sections. There are no standard divisions, but a commonly used scheme is...:

And tons and tons....

Is easy to find info in the net about IR emission of metals, wich deppends also of his termal conductivity.

You're not prepared for to discuss this: first, because you no investigate, you believe you know about the things, but no. And second and more important: you never experiment in it, except when you press a button of your TV remote control.

And more Max: no need high energies, no high energies IR sources, simple IR leds or laser leds do the job.

AND MORE: I have the key of it!

You're the cure, Medice cure te ipsum!

Hi,
you still say that metals emit Infrared radiations ?

Where did you read that ?

0.3, 0.5, 0.9 of what ? pure numbers ? of what are you talking about ?

Complete nonsense Esteban.

Who said you that metals emit IR ???

I've explained already that to get chromium generated photons you have to create a doping in a crystal matrix. Atomic level dispersion.
Not metal bars.

Atomic + energy -> emission

Metallic structure is very particular and doesn't work as you say.

If you e.g. heat up a metal bar there will be interactions between atoms in the metallic structure that will make you see a continuos emission spectrum.


"You're not prepared for to discuss this"

Oh yeah... you are the master of physics... I see.

You don't know laser principles... that's the problem... and other physics too.
Have total confusion!

Mix "atomic spectrometry" with metallic-body continuos emission : completely different story dear Esteban.

"Is easy to find info in the net about IR emission of metals, wich deppends also of his termal conductivity."

No , no , no : wrong. IR band emissions are related not to the "termal conductivity"... as you said... but to energy levels of electrons and relative jumps.

Relation is Planck's one: E = hv

E is energy, h is Planck's constant, v if frequency of photon

Damn ! Every teenager knows ! Haven't you books there ?

You have to study more next time.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Esteban, our research brought some relevant info on this. We can talk trough email if you wish.
Regards.

Yes molecules... good!

[hung]

You're lucky. I'm eating my wife's corn bread right now and feel in good mood to insist in untwisting the facts you place here.
But I promise, this is the last time I refer to you.

Hi Hung,

These things cannot be used in cars with engine on. You intentionally disinformate people. I'm not an owner of mineoro's devices but I'm sure some serious people having it will confirm that.

This is a so ridiculous claim. This infers you are trying to compare my device with an ordinary LRL or Zahori. Or, you don't have the slightest clue on how this things work. This last option is the one which applies to you I guess.
If you think a car is an obstacle to the Mineoro's detection, just ask a user here. Esteban, Michael, Mosha, you pick it You don't believe? Ask them if with the engine on, the detector emits any beep, provided it's not aimed at the sparks or coil. They will tell you exactly what I did. Only when the engine gets started it will beep. And once on the road if it's positioned correctly, it will detect at no problems. I did it dozens of times like I said. It's not a matter of believeing it is detecting. It's fact. Naturally it wil require some user who has done this before and did detected something.

Ah.. Sorry, forgot to tell. You have to set the knob gain on 2. If you keep the usual tuning for open field you may get some random beeps when aiming powerlines. On 2 this gets practically nulled out. So when some beep happens, it's something else. Then you stop the car, and get out to check, returning it to the usual tuning.
The gold vein was detected from the car with knob on 2 and with 2 fast beeps, indicating it was something big.
It was.
Esteban can chime in here and will tell you more.
I quit.

Adios.

The unit was manifactured by Mineoro and claimed working LRL... so what difference if you call it John or Mary ?

No one. Both work. Errr... the latter not anymore. It was dismantled. Poor soul...

Out of here Mr. Max. Corn bread is getting cold...

[Carl-NC]

In the case of diamonds, isn't there a diamond molecule which consists of quite a few carbon atoms bonded into a structure?

Carbon atoms can bond a number of different ways, and maybe graphite and bucky balls are considered to be all-carbon molecules. But diamond is a continuous carbon lattice.

When I look at the difference between graphite molecules and diamond molecules, it seems that maybe there is some basis to say they have distinct molecular resonant frequencies. It appears that the molecules for graphite, diamond, and several other all-carbon materials are of different size and mass, which would support the notion of different resonant frequencies.

Certainly mass and volume play a role in mechanical vibration, just like different bells and different drums produce different tones. But mechanical vibration can't be a basis for LRLs, because a silver dime and a silver dollar would have different mechanical resonances, as would diamonds of different carats.

Since I was addressing NMR and not mechanical vibration, is it possible NMR frequencies are altered by the molecular/lattice structure of the atoms? Maybe. But as you said, "it is highly unlikely anybody could detect this resonance outside an extremely strong electromagnetic field."

- Carl

[J_Player]

Since I was addressing NMR and not mechanical vibration, is it possible NMR frequencies are altered by the molecular/lattice structure of the atoms? Maybe. But as you said, "it is highly unlikely anybody could detect this resonance outside an extremely strong electromagnetic field."

Yes, I consider that all carbon has a tendency to create covalent bonds with itself and often with other elements. What I wonder is if the covalent bonding among the atoms of an all carbon substance would show the same NMR regardless of what all carbon substance is being tested, or if the variations in structure of the lattice would cause the frequency to be noticeably altered. It was my understanding that the NMR is dependent partly on the chemical bonding structure. But I am not certain, since you explained that water shows the resonance frequency of hydrogen. It makes me wonder if NMR testing machines are able to tell the difference between diamond and charcoal or graphite.

But as you said, I don't see how variations in NMR resonance of carbon would be relevant to MFD, or LRLs in general, as neither of these operate in a sufficient magnetic field, and are operating at the wrong frequencies based on what the manufacturers told us.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

I'm not master in physics, also you don't, but I know that all bodies over absolute zero emit IR. YOU MUST KNOW THIS SIMPLE MATTER.

Terahertz radiation (or millimetre waves, with a frequency of 1012 Hz) consists of light waves with a wavelength in between microwaves and normal infrared radiation. Terahertz radiation can be used for imaging of concealed objects such as weapons, medical imaging, and the detection of certain chemicals such as explosives and drugs. All objects at room temperature emit a continuous stream of terahertz radiation. We are particularly interested in terahertz pulses with a duration around a picosecond (10-12 s). Such ultrashort pulses are important for fundamental studies of novel materials, the study of biological processes, and particle accelerators. The generation and application of terahertz pulses has been studied intensely for the past 10 years or so with now about 500 publications a year. The Strathclyde group led by Klaas Wynne has been working in this area since 1996.

http://bcp.phys.strath.ac.uk/pr/07pr1.php

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:mCsvDU-9Oo4J:coolcosmos.ipac.caltech.edu/resources/paper_products/print_publication_pdf/eta_car_back_panels.pdf+all+metals+emits+infrared+ university&hl=es&ct=clnk&cd=56&gl=py

And 1,000 like this you can found with some study. You're a sample who must be redirected to the school!!

Insist with your chromium, your ruby laser and maser, you master of the negativity. And what if you show me a classic GENERAL formula, you the master in physics, eh? What!!!

Show me all the formulas you want, these no quit what I know in use for detect via IR beam! And also nothing to see GENERAL FORMULAS with DERIVATED APPLICATIONS. IF YOU DON'T KNOW, YOU CAN FOUND USES OF GENERAL PRINCIPLES. If you don't know, the world of the energy is vaste!!! Do you see the difference?

Is very easy AND YOU DON'T KNOW!!! Hate me!!! Go, you master in nothing!!!

I insist: the only you know about IR is regarding the remote control of your DVD and TV. But you can use for other purposes... if you put SOME EFFORT!!!

Leave Hung in peace, who has more experience, 1,000 times, than you.

[J_Player]

Hi Esteban,

I would not worry about what Max claims about infrared. Everybody who read his posts knows he does not know what he is talking about for infrared emissions. You cannot expect him to read any science reports about this. He already established in a different post that he is a real busy guy and he does not have time for reading lots of science reports. I think maybe he don't care what you show the Caltech professor says.

You emit a IR-laser or IR modulated in audio beam, NO A FIX BEAM in wich you insert the tone via a capacitor. No, you ON and OFF the IR diode at this tone frequency, can be 400 Hz. This tone (modulation) appears as a phase shift in a receiver system. I only try with IR, but sure IR-laser will be better, but much more expensive in comparation. Not for to measure temp, but this beam is like a precisse antenna in wich beam "travel" the phenomenom (because I try it only for old buried items, no for new) and dislocates the system. Also all bodies emit IR, metals in major quantity. But the question is: why I can't detect a person (wich emit IR) but yes a metal buried? What is the associated phenomenom inherent to this? Atomic vibration also? Is very complex!

This is a very interesting thing you talk about. Let me see if I understand correctly:
You say I should take an inrfared LED or an infrared laser, and pulse it on and off with a square wave, not sine wave at maybe 400HZ. This beam should be aimed at an old buried metal target. Correct?

If I understand your idea correctly for sending a beam to the long time buried metal, then my question is: How do I measure phase shift? Do I look for a change in the phase of the transmitted light beam frequency? or do I look for a diffenrence between the transmitted and the reflected beam? I would think a reflected beam will show very close to the same time as the beam sent when the target is at close distance.

In order to measure a phase shift, I would think it is necessary to use a very fast IC to see the small shift in a light beam time. Am I correct? Do we need to use methods similar to radar ranging techniques? What kind of circuit do you use to see the phase change?

Also, has this phenomena been seen in different light frequencies besides the usual infrared diodes and lasers? Do you know of any experiments with the red lasers or the 532nm high power green lasers?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Carl-NC]

These things cannot be used in cars with engine on. You intentionally disinformate people. I'm not an owner of mineoro's devices but I'm sure some serious people having it will confirm that.

Since I own a Mineoro FG80, and I was barely interested enough to test this, I will conditionally defend Hung on this one.

With the engine turned off, I could tune my FG80 to ~330 to get silence in all directions. Once I cranked the engine, I had to detune by 70 to again get to the silence threshold.

Whether the engine was on or off, the FG80 was more sensitive pointing straight ahead (or straight behind, since the FG80 cannot distinguish between front & back). So I investigated, and found that as long as the key was on, the FG80 could not be brought close to the dash without beeping. In fact, I had to detune all the way down to "30" to maintain silence close to the dash, even with the engine off. So my dash must be spewing tremendous amounts of ions!

So what do I mean by "conditionally" defend Hung? Well, the claim was, "These things cannot be used in cars with engine on," and what I found was that my FG80 can be "used" with the engine on. There is still the glaring question as to whether the FG80 is "useful", regardless of cars and engines.

- Carl

[J_Player]

So my dash must be spewing tremendous amounts of ions! There is still the glaring question as to whether the FG80 is "useful", regardless of cars and engines.

Have you considered the potential health problems of ions floating around your dash board? Suppose some of these are lead ions from pre-green solder days? Maybe if you wear a gas mask while driving you'll be safe.

As I recall from the last postings about the FG80, we were told it really doesn't detect fresh gold, that it must be buried at least 10 years. In fact I thought there was talk about all the Mineoro FG detectors cannot detect fresh gold. So what does the FG stand for? What does the Mineoro detect besides electrical noise?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

1. You say I should take an inrfared LED or an infrared laser, and pulse it on and off with a square wave, not sine wave at maybe 400HZ. This beam should be aimed at an old buried metal target. Correct?

Square wave, 50% duty cicle, from a 555. Yes, and his very precisse. No much distance with common IR leds. When you pick a beep in movement, you search for the precisse point.

2. If I understand your idea correctly for sending a beam to the long time buried metal, then my question is: How do I measure phase shift? Do I look for a change in the phase of the transmitted light beam frequency? or do I look for a diffenrence between the transmitted and the reflected beam? I would think a reflected beam will show very close to the same time as the beam sent when the target is at close distance.

I think occurs a variation in height between the tone present in a receiver (this is filtrate as an interference in ANY sensitive system like a milivoltmeter). YOU DON'T NEED IR leds receiver. Also this filtrates in FM reveiver, and the signal of the target is directly in the beam or beams, no in the telescopic antenna, for example. But today maybe is not possible in this band (FM).

3. In order to measure a phase shift, I would think it is necessary to use a very fast IC to see the small shift in a light beam time. Am I correct? Do we need to use methods similar to radar ranging techniques? What kind of circuit do you use to see the phase change?

Maybe you're correct in this, but never I use sophisticated ICs. Don't know if this is or not similar to radar. The height of the tone changes. A simple adjustable comparator with audio generator.

4. Also, has this phenomena been seen in different light frequencies besides the usual infrared diodes and lasers? Do you know of any experiments with the red lasers or the 532nm high power green lasers?

No experiment with this. Once I use a common (cheap) Chinese laser pointer modulated at very low freq., and found button at 20 cm depth. Maybe the modulated frequency isn't the most important regarding the wavelenght of IR and laser in microwave regions. Metals reflects microwaves, and sure emission in vecinity, this is, IR.

[J_Player]

Thank you for explanations Estaban,

There is still one part I don't understand -- The circuitry to measure the phase shift: Do I use only an audio circuit to listen to the 400 Hz transmit signal? And I listen for change in frequency or in amplitude or both? Is there some kind of receiver circuit to build?

What kind of circuit should I use, and what should I measure with this circuit?

Best wishes,
J_P

[hung]

Since I own a Mineoro FG80, and I was barely interested enough to test this, I will conditionally defend Hung on this one.

With the engine turned off, I could tune my FG80 to ~330 to get silence in all directions. Once I cranked the engine, I had to detune by 70 to again get to the silence threshold.

Whether the engine was on or off, the FG80 was more sensitive pointing straight ahead (or straight behind, since the FG80 cannot distinguish between front & back). So I investigated, and found that as long as the key was on, the FG80 could not be brought close to the dash without beeping. In fact, I had to detune all the way down to "30" to maintain silence close to the dash, even with the engine off. So my dash must be spewing tremendous amounts of ions!

So what do I mean by "conditionally" defend Hung? Well, the claim was, "These things cannot be used in cars with engine on," and what I found was that my FG80 can be "used" with the engine on. There is still the glaring question as to whether the FG80 is "useful", regardless of cars and engines.

- Carl

The 'pearl' above is among the very reasons I decided to leave this forum for a while and now after receiving an invitation to join another discussion forum I'm seriously thinking in quitting this one for good. No rewards.

This will be my last input on Mineoro detectors as sometimes I feel I deal with retarded people here, specially having to state the same things over and over again.

Carl, what amazes me in you is that you pose as a supposed scientific mind but you already gave me evidence that you are a rookie in those matters. But at least with the Mineoro detector in hand and also supposedly doing some tests, I would at least expect reasonable conclusions and inputs about it. But no, you speak nonsenses about the device's working principle even a layman would not say.
Mr. Brains, there's no such thing as the MIneoro receiving from front and back. Just because it's got a loop antenna it's in cardioid pattern by the ionic chamber, Einstein. If this was the case, all gold I found would be in the opposite way. I won't waste my time here explaining things about the directivity, even a person with 2 neurons would understand.

Also, if you still have not found gold with it, it's your problem, not mine or Mineoro's. You either DOES NOT WANT IT TO HAPPEN or worse, you have bad intention and don't want admit the device in fact does. I sincerelly hope you don't get to this extreme, but coming from you, nobody knows.

Keep pretending the device is useless, In fact all LRLs in your hands are useless. If I were you I would worry and would go see a doctor right away.
Sorry pal, I cannot take your 'make believe' claims anymore.
This is my last input towards you and the FG80 subject. I tried to give you good info. But incompetence and twisted attitudes have limit.


Regards.

[J_Player]

.

[J_Player]

I feel I deal with retarded people here, specially having to state the same things over and over again.

Nobody here is so retarded to believe the BS you repeat over and over with nothing to substantiate it except your extraordinarily fantastic stories.

Can you explain why we should believe a Mineoro LRL can find treasure when nobody on earth is willing to demonstrate it doing that?

Can you explain why we should believe you recently found a 500 year old legendary treasure in the middle of a large city, when there have been no news reports about this legendary find?

Can you explain why we should believe you have completed mods to a RangerTell that allows it to detect gold and silver coins a mile away?

Can you explain why we should believe you found gold veins in the forest that can't be verified by anything except your claim it is true?

Can you explain why we should believe this is your last post after demonstrating at least three times the past few months it is not?

Do you have any credible evidence to support any of these stories you have told?

Haven't you read the Intro note Carl posted in this forum, where he says: "Be factual. If you make an extraordinary claim, be prepared to get challenged." And now you're whining when people think you're fullo BS and challenge you?

Hahahahaaaa,

Best wishes,
J_P