Post photo of your LRL project?

[Fred]

Hi Robert,

I think, whatever is the purpose of this stuff, that they connected the "input" directly to the 455 IF , so they basically have a 455khz receiver.The rest of the circuit is not used.
When using a BFO this could be an easy way to build a good sensitive and selective receiver.
regards,
Fred.

[roberts]

Would like to see what your are making.
you can post a cad of your LRL detector?

Haloooo Earth!?!? Clondike Clad, i never designed and made neither one LRL detector!? Do you understand english? I designed front ends and IF's for mobile radio apparatus, like cordless phones,walkie-talkies etc...
Am i clear here? Was something confusing in my last post?
I recognized "my" design on Estebans photo...that is all.
When i said "my" it is pretty relative. I designed several types of this, doesn't mean i am the only one.
But for sure, what Esteban posted is nothing else but simple,ordinary tranceiver taken from some cordless phone. Reminds me most on Panasonic's style. Actually i can swear it is Panasonic.
Keep dreaming on LRL...sweet dreams!

[roberts]

Hi Robert,

I think, whatever is the purpose of this stuff, that they connected the "input" directly to the 455 IF , so they basically have a 455khz receiver.The rest of the circuit is not used.
When using a BFO this could be an easy way to build a good sensitive and selective receiver.
regards,
Fred.

Must be that you know something i don't?!
I still can see 10.7 MHz mixer in front of 455kHz there on photo!? Also i still can see TX part with 30-50MHz quartz there!? How come?
Also there is MC 3357 or 3361 there also!? How come?
I dont see any bfo there!?
There is no such thing as 455KHz reciever, my friend. There is something similar in remote controls...but that is not subject here.
Actually they (hung,esteban and others) are constantly playing with scrap eletronics trying to discover some new america!
Totally nonsenced wirements doesnt make good ee from ignorant! Does it?
Child play...again and again. Posting funny photos again...
This is so funny!

[Fred]

what i mean is that they have used an old phone board, ignored all the HF stages and directly connected the input to the 455 khz IF stage.Maybe.That´s all what i am saying, i dont know the purpose, principles or whatever .
Fred.

[Esteban]

Roberts

Not important if you think this doesn't work.

By the way, you don't need much "technology" for to detect at distance. Maybe is not high depth detector but can detect a gold coin at 40 m.

I use only the oscillator frequency and obtain in audio out the difference. The same with FM radio or cell phones. Internal oscillator of them is the theme.

"I dont see any bfo there!?"

You, as radio designer, must be know what mean BFO in radio.


Regards

Esteban

[roberts]

Roberts

Not important if you think this doesn't work.

By the way, you don't need much "technology" for to detect at distance. Maybe is not high depth detector but can detect a gold coin at 40 m.

I use only the oscillator frequency and obtain in audio out the difference. The same with FM radio or cell phones. Internal oscillator of them is the theme.

"I dont see any bfo there!?"

You, as radio designer, must be know what mean BFO in radio.


Regards

Esteban

I can agree; it is not important what do i think, at all. It is important what is possible and what is not possible.

I dont need "technology" to detect coin at 40m. I have eyes and i can see it, if it is not burried (as you said). So why bother making anything from scrap electronics.
So...internal oscillators of devices you mentioned usually run at high and very high frequencies but generallly those are all very low power. So i cant really imagine how, the heck, you can "locate" anything, using those???
But..never mind, if you are satisfied - i am more satisfied.
I just couldnt resist to show my overjoy when recognized that pcb!

[Max]

Esteban who are you joking here!?
Me personally...i designed IF and front end stages for few cordless phones manufacturers, in the past. My favorite was MC3361 and earlier MC3357.
I do recognize my "baby" here!? And you came here and claim it is some blah,blah "lrl" pistol????!
How dare you? Ha,aha,aha,aha,aha,aha,ah!!!!!
First it was Hung and now you...
Bye,bye Esteban!

Hi Robert,
yes is a cordless.... I had thoughts about... before you post that message!

But maybe he just used the electronics there in different way... just some IF thing needed and he used that cordless to get it work in a different way.

I cannot say that this thing could detect a coin at 40meters away... really hard to belive... but I think it can work as a BFO MD using that IF stage and some mixing of frequencies from a local oscillator and a tuned circuit stuff.

Is this an LRL ? I don't know... cannot say anything about...

Sure it was a cordless phone before the "mod" but what's now ? Just a bunch of cables and metal ??? Maybe... or maybe there's something else... something really different from original purpose of device that maybe I cannot see... you cannot recognize as possibly working stuff etc

Anyway... if Esteban will tell us some more details we'll make a better idea of what's the purpose of making a BFO using the cordless blocks to realize an "LRL" that way.

Best regards,
Max

[Esteban]

You can see in block diagramm in zip archive. I use as passive LRL.

The change of frequency in RF sector by signal causes for long time buried metal produces mini-changes in audio output. This show via beeps generator.

Regards

Esteban

[Fred]

You can see in block diagramm in zip archive. I use as passive LRL.
The change of frequency in RF sector by signal causes for long time buried metal produces mini-changes in audio output. This show via beeps generator.
Regards Esteban

Hi Esteban,
But change in what frequency? if it is passive, what frequency change do you detect?
And do you know how a target many meters away can make a stable frequency to change?
Regards,
Fred.

[roberts]

You can see in block diagramm in zip archive. I use as passive LRL.

The change of frequency in RF sector by signal causes for long time buried metal produces mini-changes in audio output. This show via beeps generator.

Regards

Esteban

Pay attention on this; "...I use a passive LRL..."

Now i do understand your way of looking at this! Finally!
Same principle (or simillar)to Omnitron and so many others. Most closest match would be Radian 2001, made by independent serbian ee.
Principle is to use "passive LRL" and some piece of electronic equipment togather.
Well, electronic part is most oftenly some sort of signal generator and in some rare cases (like this,your) sort of receiver. No matter of totally oposite role of those electronic parts, all these can be put in same category.
Category which we can define as "half human-half machine" or call it any other way you want. Electronic part is provable to work something. So we should not have any doubts in its accuracy. For example, signal generator from Omnitron set is really workable device. It is generating signal for real. Also that pcb you are using is workable for sure. It is receiver with front end,mixer,local osc. demodulator and finally af stage.So it is workable for sure.
But let me say here what is the main lack in this principle; it is the other part - "passive LRL" part, as you named it.
How can anybody prove that it is workable? How can any of us do double blind tests and gain same results as yours? No way!
That is the main catch here.
You simply can not prove that part is workable. You cant even explain its functionallity. You cant draw sketches,formulas,calculations and by this indirect way prove and establish its functionallity. Aint no natural science with which you can backup your claims.
So you are picking some signal(or noise) changes when dealing with your apparatus!? OK, i can accept that. How can you be sure what caused those changes? Are you gonna dig huge hole to check if there is some burried item?
What if there isnt burried item? What if somebody waste days and dig 3-4 meters whole, or also waste 3-4 days searchin large area, without any finds,without succes? What than?
How can you explain that? He is not skilfull? Or some already well known Mineoro explanations..?
Have you ever tried Zahori? It can pick hum,noise and signal changes from every where. It is extra sensitive even to slites changes in static field. But this doesnt mean it is detecting coin at 40 meters. It is absolute uselles in any kind of metal prospecting.
Same story with all other LRL devices, i have been seen so far. Yet neither one proper explanations.
See what i mean? That's why i can not accept this yours or any other LRL concept as true.
Unless you have something more to show here, i will stay pretty sure that am very right.
About others...let them do decide.
Regards man!

[Fred]

Yes Robert,

We cannot rule out a system just becasue we dont know how it works, but then if nobody can explain it , even builders,we get suspicious...
same thing here, but we must keep an open mind...

Now about the cordless phone ,i have never seen a cordless with this kind o connector, and i dont think it make much sense to use such one, so i said it reminds me a data transceiver.
Not very important anyway...

Regards,
Fred.

[Clondike Clad]

Hung

Hung what is your input...............

[roberts]

Yes Robert,

We cannot rule out a system just becasue we dont know how it works, but then if nobody can explain it , even builders,we get suspicious...
same thing here, but we must keep an open mind...

Now about the cordless phone ,i have never seen a cordless with this kind o connector, and i dont think it make much sense to use such one, so i said it reminds me a data transceiver.
Not very important anyway...

Regards,
Fred.

Yes it is some kind of data tranceiver.It is not ordinary cordless phone. Reminds me mostly on earlier products from late '80. and early '90. Also it still can be cordless phone with voice&data scramble feature, like those done in the past, with 2 pcbs; one was tranceiver and other was digital processing unit. As you said, not very important here anyway. What is important is fact that pcb we can see here is actually ordinary tranceiver with very well known parts,stages. Knowing this, we can understand principle of working. So now, for the first time here, i do understand what is all about.
Give me things that i can repeat in my lab, and i will support your ideas - that is only way. Unlike many other things posted in Remote Sensing Forum.
About keeping open mind; i have open mind upon things i can practically repeat,understand and prove. I cant have open mind upon unprovable things.
For example, to many people claimed so far they met vampire! I say - not possible. Vampires doesnt exist. Same thing with lrl here. Locating single coin at 40 meters or simillar claims. etc.etc.

[Fred]

For example, to many people claimed so far they met vampire! I say - not possible. Vampires doesnt exist. Same thing with lrl here. Locating single coin at 40 meters or simillar claims. etc.etc.

Hey Robert,
This is a slippy path!
If someone says he have seen a vampire,i would think it must be proven,but untill then i dont know... It does not make sense, i doubt,etc,but ... i dont know.
Someone also said once that the earth was not the center of universe, nobody believed and he ended his life arrested because he couldnt prove it... .
Regards!,
Fred.

[Esteban]

No mystery here, no ovnis, no vampires, there is people wich wish extend this theme to legend field!


You catch this small difference in the audio out of the IC, but you can't ear normally. So the simple beeper do the job.

Any simple audio amp. can do the job, but in this case you can't achieve much distance.

Semiconductors base is ready for to accept electrons, these semiconductor has noise causes by termal movement of atoms. The field of the good conductive metal buried for long time affect the vecinity of the electrons in the semiconductor, and produces a small microvolts, very easy to undrstood this.

So a antenna system connected to this input and adjust the system at the best point of sensibility, out of false beeping, is OK for to do the job.

In other words, also you don't need RF part, yes audio, but RF is more sensitive, and as I use here receiver part, I call this passive device, this is in my terminology regarding electronic LRL. Other thing is a system based in transmitter/receiver, so I can name this as active device. Also radio transmitter/receiver or metal detector (IB, BFO, resonance-off, etc.) is active for me.

All depend of your imagination in electronic LRL systems, never ends ideas in this field.

But for to know all this you must go to inland in relic sites, no dictate from a chair and a computer.

Regards

Esteban