PDK LRL

[Theseus]

The PDK working as an LRL is just an illusion. You can take almost any non-motion detector circuit; replace the standard audio with a "beeper"; and adjust the sensitivity so that it's on the edge of instability. You then mount the coil in a horizontal position, and off you go. After that it becomes a trick of the mind. In a similar manner to dowsing, you start to see patterns in the random beeping (that are not really there) or are possibly due to multi-path reflections, and start following an imaginary "signal line". At some point you will reach an area that looks interesting to the subconscious mind, and you search around (now using the PDK as a real metal detector) and low-and-behold you find something! Of course, the "treasure" was never really detected from several meters away, but it's a good illusion. The PDK has the added advantage that it has a real metal detector built-in, whereas normal LRLers do their final recovery with a different detector.

Whenever a metal detector (either separate or built-in) is melded with a dowsing instrument, the true merit or worth of the dowsing gadget will always be an unknown --no matter what the operator believes.

The only way to effectively evaluate a dowsing wand (or dowsing method) is to test it by itself.

[Fred]

The PDK working as an LRL is just an illusion. You can take almost any non-motion detector circuit; replace the standard audio with a "beeper"; and adjust the sensitivity so that it's on the edge of instability. You then mount the coil in a horizontal position, and off you go. After that it becomes a trick of the mind. In a similar manner to dowsing, you start to see patterns in the random beeping (that are not really there) or are possibly due to multi-path reflections, and start following an imaginary "signal line". At some point you will reach an area that looks interesting to the subconscious mind, and you search around (now using the PDK as a real metal detector) and low-and-behold you find something! Of course, the "treasure" was never really detected from several meters away, but it's a good illusion. The PDK has the added advantage that it has a real metal detector built-in, whereas normal LRLers do their final recovery with a different detector.

Hi Qiaozhi,
I agree that is very likely, but you cannot completely rule out that if there is some (let´s call it) halo effect, holding a metallic coil or whatever above ground at a particular and regular height on edge of detection may detect it...

[Qiaozhi]

Whenever a metal detector (either separate or built-in) is melded with a dowsing instrument, the true merit or worth of the dowsing gadget will always be an unknown --no matter what the operator believes.

The only way to effectively evaluate a dowsing wand (or dowsing method) is to test it by itself.

I agree with your statement. Except (in this case) the PDK is not a dowsing instrument. There is no swinging handle, or similar gizmo. It is entirely electronic, in a similar manner to the Mineoro stuff.

Hi Qiaozhi,
I agree that is very likely, but you cannot completely rule out that if there is some (let´s call it) halo effect, holding a metallic coil or whatever above ground at a particular and regular height on edge of detection may detect it...

I think it's much more than "likely". There may be a halo effect in the ground created by certain items, but the idea of some sort of ionic cloud, hovering above longtime buried gold, is pure fantasy.

[Max]

goldgun's halo

Hi Qiaozhi,
I agree that is very likely, but you cannot completely rule out that if there is some (let´s call it) halo effect, holding a metallic coil or whatever above ground at a particular and regular height on edge of detection may detect it...

Hi,
yes, we talk about that, I remember the "halo" issue well.

Though I think the so called "halo" really exist and not only for ferrous items, long time buried... cause had experiences that cannot be easy explained not considering that kind of effects.... I must say that the idea of PD detecting a supposed "halo" of e.g. a coin from meters far is pretty unrealistic.

That's cause we found no connections happens at long range, the device seems work (as a normal MD) in the short range only, unless a very (BUT VERY) big object is in front of it... in which case is not impossible reading a detection also at 4-5meters away... that's the case of very large (several square meters) conductive objects, usually big iron doors, when disc work not properly.

It's halo ? No. The square meters of a large door can be detected also by other kind of sensitive MDs... expecially PIs, I must say that the fact an old off-resonance MD design can do that doesn't surprised me much at that time.

My last idea of PD is that is a bit of black magic + some old style electronics.

Why black magic ? Easy: it's the unexplained there... the broadband receiver is there just cause the general idea is, like in the goldgun stuff, detecting the presence or absence of some radio signal, with undefined frequency or subject to frequency shifts.

If you ask about if the PD works or not... you'll better ask yourself if the goldgun could ever work.

For me it's clear that will not work... but others seems still think that the goldgun "principle" as the right way to the promised land of working LRLs.

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Pistol detector based on regular detector works as long range detector (some meters) and is possible in conjunction with other(s) circuit(s).

Morgan has success finding targets with it, I have success with similar instrument... so maybe the problem is errors in schematics or connections.

The ferrite section is the real long range detector in this project.

Pistols with MD can be:

1. Based in regular MD + RF circuit

2. Absorption as the ferrite, in wich case MD is for pinpointing unburied target.

Of course, if you publish all schematics here, the people will reproduce and sell the devices, workable or not workable. Do you want to be part of it?

Regards

Esteban

[Max]

Pistol detector based on regular detector works as long range detector (some meters) and is possible in conjunction with other(s) circuit(s).

Morgan has success finding targets with it, I have success with similar instrument... so maybe the problem is errors in schematics or connections.

The ferrite section is the real long range detector in this project.

Pistols with MD can be:

1. Based in regular MD + RF circuit

2. Absorption as the ferrite, in wich case MD is for pinpointing unburied target.

Of course, if you publish all schematics here, the people will reproduce and sell the devices, workable or not workable. Do you want to be part of it?

Regards

Esteban

Hi,
I don't want put everything public domain... I've already explained that... and reasons also (even if I don't agree on some statements made at that time).

I revealed a "misty" part of the story just after JP provided the main information...

But we then stalled on the interesting issue: having a working LRL device , cloned working PD, as reported by mr Morgan.

I think what's happening now is not dependand by my will... it's just cause some people invested time and efforts in that process and are a bit (maybe) furstrated by that PD stuff that now it's like opening the Pandora's box of PD !

It's like when someone plays with a flamethrower full of napalm inside a nuclear reactor thing....singing "seek and destroy"!
Do you think really someone could now avoid a big blast there ?

I think mr Morgan striked the first match...with that post of above...talking about our unsuccessful reverse engineering and mistakes...

Kind regards,
Max

[Fred]

I think it's much more than "likely". There may be a halo effect in the ground created by certain items, but the idea of some sort of ionic cloud, hovering above longtime buried gold, is pure fantasy.

Hey,you are the one talking of hovering ions, not me !
I still think there is some effect in cause. But as we know nothing about it, i can´t tell if it may or not be detected at "some distance".

That's cause we found no connections happens at long range, the device seems work (as a normal MD) in the short range only, unless a very (BUT VERY) big object is in front of it...

I know, but personally i cannot guarantee that i tested it in presence of a halo...
I am not defending anything here, except what i think must be real neutrality in judging the results.If positive results must be scientifically tested, so must be negative ones too
Regards,
Fred.

[Qiaozhi]

I know, but personally i cannot guarantee that i tested it in presence of a halo...
I am not defending anything here, except what i think must be real neutrality in judging the results.If positive results must be scientifically tested, so must be negative ones too
Regards,
Fred.

So far there have not been any "confirmed" positive results ... just hearsay.

[Morgan]

PD

Hi,
yes, but that wasn't so immediate conclusion... me and Qiaozhi probably searched for 2-3 days before we found that....I think Esteban will not be happy of your post, anyway.

My intention was leaving out that "details" cause Esteban and other people were worried about implications of making public domain that inside the PD was actually an Heathkit GD-348 MD...

There was a general agreement of keeping out of public domain any reference to that topic of the Heathkit stuff...also with the explicit intention of avoiding mass production of cloned PDs in Asia and other parts of the world. Or also... cloned GD-348 MDs!

Not that I belived really could happen... but you know... today you make an unuseful 10$ bottlecap-remover in western world... then after a couple of weeks you see tons of them in your local store... at 0.99$ each , ALL from a country that we know... where producing stuff is really cheap cause of low salaries...and no good environment policy at now!

Indeed I agree with Esteban when he said that, cause PD was never a commercial unit, there's nothing more than copying old schematics of other brands for personal use only...research and the like, we made here.

Also, like with other schematics here at Geotech most are obsolete stuff... not anymore in production (like the GD-348 ), so the issues about e.g. patents infringements are about academic (unless really Heathkit -or what remains of it- will jump in, really few probable I think).

That sure took another important fact, means also that many people beliving in an original Alonso's design masterpiece will be now about disappointed.

So Esteban will be even less happy about that post!

On the other hand the logic of PD is reusing existing technology to make something different, and that "idea" could stay in a patent... if it's an innovation on existing detection methods (at least this is the belief of who trust Alonso)...but no patent exist as far as we know.

But the most important issue is still that device , after all tests and cloning, failed in reproducing any LRL behaviour.

Kind regards,
Max

Yes,it failled but only to the person who made mistakes when construct and calibrate device ...

[J_Player]

Halos

It has been confirmed that in most locations, the ground around long-time buried metals including gold is not the same as the same ground around recently buried metals. There is an Australian company that runs a thriving business locating gold and other ore deposits by sampling the ground above the buried ore. From their literature, they claim ions of the ore move upward through the soil in a column, exactly as is described on the Mineoro website. But they make no claims that these ions become airborne where they can be detected by a modified metal detector. According to the company who pioneered the mobile metal ion business, these upward moving ions become neutralized as a compound within the last 10 cm of reaching the surface of the earth. According to their measurements, this extremely weak column of ions travels upward as much as 5000 feet before neutralizing just below the surface.

It is my opinion there is a "halo", provided you describe a halo as an anomaly in the soil which exists as a column in the earth above long-time buried metals. I do not believe any halo extends above the surface of the ground. If it is possible to sense the location of buried metal from above the ground without taking a soil sample, then I believe it would be explained by secondary effects, not by the metal ions floating into the air.

However, I have never seen any reliable device locate any halo at long range except by taking a sample of the soil to show that it has a higher concentration of ions than the surrounding soil. None of the talk about LRLs locating buried metals was ever demonstrated to me live in an area unknown to the operator of the LRL. Also, no LRL in the world has ever won Carl's $25,000 prize. The only LRL I have heard of attempting to win a prize is the contraption Dell Winders used to try to find coins in the sand in front of Randi. The reports show that Dell failed miserably, and then claimed Randi lied about the test results. When Randi offered Dell a re-test for a $1 million prize, Dell refused.

Is there any LRL in the world that can be demonstrated now in front of witnesses to find an unknown long-time buried treasure at long range?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Steve in MS]

Is there any LRL in the world that can be demonstrated now in front of witnesses to find an unknown long-time buried treasure at long range?

Best wishes,
J_P

Apparently not. What is apparent is the continued list of "ideal" circumstances that must be met so that the LRL will work at all.
Come on now, it doesn't find gold unless it has been in the ground for hundreds of years, who knows, maybe it takes thousands or millions of years for it to work properly.
Enough of excuses and theoretical nonsense, if there is anyone out there that has one that works, prove it.
That's right, step up and show the world!
Like the saying goes, money talks, bs walks.

[Esteban]

It has been confirmed that in most locations, the ground around long-time buried metals including gold is not the same as the same ground around recently buried metals. There is an Australian company that runs a thriving business locating gold and other ore deposits by sampling the ground above the buried ore. From their literature, they claim ions of the ore move upward through the soil in a column, exactly as is described on the Mineoro website. But they make no claims that these ions become airborne where they can be detected by a modified metal detector. According to the company who pioneered the mobile metal ion business, these upward moving ions become neutralized as a compound within the last 10 cm of reaching the surface of the earth. According to their measurements, this extremely weak column of ions travels upward as much as 5000 feet before neutralizing just below the surface.

It is my opinion there is a "halo", provided you describe a halo as an anomaly in the soil which exists as a column in the earth above long-time buried metals. I do not believe any halo extends above the surface of the ground. If it is possible to sense the location of buried metal from above the ground without taking a soil sample, then I believe it would be explained by secondary effects, not by the metal ions floating into the air.

However, I have never seen any reliable device locate any halo at long range except by taking a sample of the soil to show that it has a higher concentration of ions than the surrounding soil. None of the talk about LRLs locating buried metals was ever demonstrated to me live in an area unknown to the operator of the LRL. Also, no LRL in the world has ever won Carl's $25,000 prize. The only LRL I have heard of attempting to win a prize is the contraption Dell Winders used to try to find coins in the sand in front of Randi. The reports show that Dell failed miserably, and then claimed Randi lied about the test results. When Randi offered Dell a re-test for a $1 million prize, Dell refused.

Is there any LRL in the world that can be demonstrated now in front of witnesses to find an unknown long-time buried treasure at long range?

Best wishes,
J_P

The detection at some distance is possible (I'm not talking about 1,000 meters, but 10 to 50 meters yes). Is not only by the ions, yes by the "field" around this buried for long time good conductive metals.

Who can be witnesses? Maybe if you or Carl are these witnesses, became automatically in true! And during this you'll take pictures and film, and your pics and film automatically became in true! This is the difference between your true and my(our) true.

Regards

Esteban

[Morgan]

NEW CHALLENGE

Apparently not. What is apparent is the continued list of "ideal" circumstances that must be met so that the LRL will work at all.
Come on now, it doesn't find gold unless it has been in the ground for hundreds of years, who knows, maybe it takes thousands or millions of years for it to work properly.
Enough of excuses and theoretical nonsense, if there is anyone out there that has one that works, prove it.
That's right, step up and show the world!
Like the saying goes, money talks, bs walks.

THE NEW CHALLENGE

1-lets go to old places chose in map (by one person not your friend or my friend),where there is possible to find treasure.

2-I use my LRL PDK & Mineoro DC2008(IR)devices,and prove to you i can find old buried GOLD ,it should be ,not less than 1 Kg,i assume i can find this amount of gold 10 meters or 40 meters distance depending on weather conditions,it doesnt matter if its deep or not.
If ii dont find gold in the place i search ( at least 1Kg of Gold) i challenge you to go there in my presence with Metal Detector and try to find the gold .

3-If you find the 1Kg of Gold (or more) in the place where i search before with my LRL,I give to you in presence of witnesses 25.000 EURO.
If i find with LRL the 1Kg(or biger) treasure in the place we are searching you should give to me 25.000 Euro.
It should be GOLD NOT SILVER and i need sometimes one MD just for pinpoint the more dificoult targets.


Regards

[Esteban]

THE NEW CHALLENGE

1-lets go to old places chose in map (by one person not your friend or my friend),where there is possible to find treasure.

2-I use my LRL PDK & Mineoro DC2008(IR)devices,and prove to you i can find old buried GOLD ,it should be ,not less than 1 Kg,i assume i can find this amount of gold 10 meters or 40 meters distance depending on weather conditions,it doesnt matter if its deep or not.
If ii dont find gold in the place i search ( at least 1Kg of Gold) i challenge you to go there in my presence with Metal Detector and try to find the gold .

3-If you find the 1Kg of Gold (or more) in the place where i search before with my LRL,I give to you in presence of witnesses 25.000 EURO.
If i find with LRL the 1Kg(or biger) treasure in the place we are searching you should give to me 25.000 Euro.
It should be GOLD NOT SILVER and i need sometimes one MD just for pinpoint the more dificoult targets.


Regards

Is very natural that if you don't find the supossed treasure with the pistol, the pistol fails. But if you don't find with regular MD, the treasure don't exist!

If anybody of both parts found the supossed treasure showed in map, nobody gain? But what happens, for example, if you detect with your pistol and old lamp or sparzed coins with the pistol? Maybe they can convert in believer, but nobody gain nothing!

[Morgan]

The NEW CHALLENGE

Is very natural that if you don't find the supossed treasure with the pistol, the pistol fails. But if you don't find with regular MD, the treasure don't exist!

If anybody of both parts found the supossed treasure showed in map, nobody gain? But what happens, for example, if you detect with your pistol and old lamp or sparzed coins with the pistol? Maybe they can convert in believer, but nobody gain nothing!

THE NEW CHALLENGE ITS FOR SEARCH GOLD HOARD,NOT LESS THAN 1 Kg !!!
We are talking here about one real TREASURE,medium or big dimentions.
Me or the other person can find during the challenge sparzed coins or objects in gold,nobody wins the price.