One more to prove the concept

[Steve in MS]

Tap, tap, tap, tappety tap.

I'm picking up good vibrations................
Have to have the body power to operate?
What a laugh, there are so many variables with these devices,
How could all of them ever be satisfied to make a find?
Some can't make them work?
Don't those radio transmissions radiate in many directions?
Radio stations are easily picked up with a radio.
This is a test of the emergency broadcast system, for the next 60 years
you are required to see if you can pick up a signal from the radio station, after you accomplish this, see if it will pick a gold bar 5 feet away.
Touching the brass tip with his pinky?
Maybe reading "Deep thoughts by Jack Handy" will help get one in the
right mindset.
How could such a product ever be sold with a straight face?

[J_Player]

There's a report I made about voltages and the examiner which you might find interesting. It's somewhere in this forum.

Yes, we all found it very interesting!

The consensus by everyone posting in that forum thread was that you lied to us about opening the Ranger tell and taking voltage readings. When we discovered that there is no diode soldered to a pot in a Ranger tell as you said there was, and you could not tell us where to connect the meter probes inside the ranger tell, it became obvious that you never opened a Ranger Tell to test the voltages.

Read about your fake testing session here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showt...t=13665&page=4

Also, see what is really inside a Ranger Tell here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showt...=13390&page=15

As I recall, after hearing the dis-believing replies to your alleged testing session, you looked to the Ranger Tell website to find a way to connect a meter to the outside of a Ranger Tell, so you would not need to show photos of the inside. If you actually showed a photo of the inside, it would clearly show there is no place to connect a meter probe to a diode soldered to a pot, and prove you never opened a ranger tell or tested it the way you said you did.

Is my recollection correct?

Best wishes,
J_P

[hung]

The consensus by everyone posting in that forum thread was that you lied to us about opening the Ranger tell and taking voltage readings. When we discovered that there is no diode soldered to a pot in a Ranger tell J_P

I really believe now you do have a problem.

OK this is my last direct answer to you.

1 - I own an all diode model. I have opened it as I said.

2 - Don't act stupid. As far as I know you don't own one, so you don't know what is inside. If you based your BS statements on Carl's report pictures, I can tell you from the start that the model I own looks completely different than that one.

3 - I don't lie. I'm not like you who lied to the RS forum pretending you had built a PD. I hope you never forget this and may that be stuck in your head forever against you.

I praise sincerity. Not falsings.
I will seriously talk to Esteban and Morgan about your presence in the RS forum. From me you will get nothing.


Now my questions to you.

What do you do for a living?
How old are you?

Please answer those simple questions for the forum, not for me.
To me, you have a kid and naive mentality.
Let's wait to see your answers.
Whatever the case, I will leave you talking alone as I know you will keep with this BS of yours indefinetely.

One suggestion to you before I leave your boat. Hold on tight to your job whatever it is. Things are really bad in your backyard.

[WesP]

Lessons from George Bush?

Hung,
You dodged that one faster then George Bush can dodge a shoe! So it seems that it will only work for people that REALLY believe it will work, that haven't had heart surgery (is this disclosed to the customer prior to purchase?) and have some dowsing ability. What I don't understand is how is it possible to hold the device perfectly level while searching. If your off just a bit it would swing towards the lower side upsetting the indication. As hard as I try and keep an open mind about these things they just don't make good common sense. I'm sorry but a until someone demonstrates these devices to an impartial testing group with results beyond random chance I'll have to say I don't believe they work. One of the biggest doubts I have is that while regular metal detectors are what I consider fairly expensive but do require a substantial amount of electronics and assembly, LRL seem to have few components and have very expensive price tags. Why is that?

Hi Wes,
No, I believe the examiner can't move by itself as it needs the charges from the human operator. If you visit RT's site, you will find this explanation in detail. I for myself am convinced that not only charges are involved but somehow the EM signatures of the operator also. They are conected. In my view the Examiner is pretty much a radionics machine. But it's possible to build an all electronic version.

I already did many tests with the examiner and found that during the day, my rate of sucess is much higher than at night when I'm stressed and tired. Detection becomes slow and unprecise. My voltage drops like a battery...
I know of some examiner users who seem to confirm this also. There's a user who reported to me a heart surgery which dramatically diminished the antennas reponse. He found that by touching the down tip of the brass handle with his pinky, the response enhanced for him and that's how he's been using it ever since.
There's a report I made about voltages and the examiner which you might find interesting. It's somewhere in this forum. I ended up by saying that there's an enormous wealth of other research and tests to be done to the intriguing examiner concept. Unfortunately I just don't have the time to do it. I hope someone finally do it someday.

Regards.

[Steve in MS]

I have a LRL device, not this Ranger and this one doesn't have any batteries, strictly mechanical.
I notice that the Ranger requires "body energy" for it to work, this one I have in the instructions makes reference to the same need of "body energy" and holding it a certain way.
It seems to me all these pivot type devices need this "body energy".
This one I have doesn't work, oh, it will swing around especially if I slightly tilt the balance point but finding metals,naaah.
I have serious doubts any of these would pass any blind test of any kind, that is if the user didn't know where the sought object is located and is searching for a metalic item.

[Clondike Clad]

My ranger

well I dusted the thing off....and took it for a spin.
Well at this time not one thing happen.
I will email to see if I can get a new unit.
If I can't get a new unit, I will post the inside of my unit to see if anyone can help me fix it.

[Carl-NC]

"Body energy" is synonymous with "ideomotor". Stop the device from being tilted (even if the hand is still in contact), and it stops working.

If Hung really truly believes what he is posting about the RT, then he hasn't bothered to do even the most rudimentary level of objective testing. His claims are all so very easy to prove wrong, using very simple tests.

- Carl

[Carl-NC]

CC, how old is your RT? My experience with Blanes is that his first alibi is, "You have an old model, and we have made significant improvements, different frequencies, more diodes, blah blah..."

[Theseus]

well I dusted the thing off....and took it for a spin.
Well at this time not one thing happen.
I will email to see if I can get a new unit.
If I can't get a new unit, I will post the inside of my unit to see if anyone can help me fix it.

If your current RT Examiner will swivel freely from side to side, when tilting your wrist slightly from side to side ---then it is in perfect working order, and there is no reason to ship it back and mess around trying to get a replacement, that will ultimately work just like the one you have.

As Carl said; Vincent will ALWAYS reply to your complaints of it not working with some lame excuse about you having an "outdated" model, or a bad component, or a faulty solder joint or some other fabricated response that has nothing to do with the thing not working (pointing to desired targets). Since I imagine it is way too late to demand a full refund, I'd say you are screwed.

[Clondike Clad]

RT

CC, how old is your RT? My experience with Blanes is that his first alibi is, "You have an old model, and we have made significant improvements, different frequencies, more diodes, blah blah..."

I was given this unit about 3 years ago.
The customer was very pissed with it.
Don't know how old it it but I think it not much older than 5 years old.

[J_Player]

hung is at it again?

Now hung claims I lied in one of the forums? I would like to see this. For example, a link to the text in which this alleged lie appears. I am not aware of any such post I made in any forum.

However, if you read the previous post about hung's forum statements, you see three examples of hung posting false information for us to believe: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...&postcount=351

These are only three examples of false information hung has posted. Try reading back through all hung's posts. Do you think you will find more?

If it is true that hung's Ranger Tell has a dioide soldered to a pot, it would be easy for hung to prove this. Simply open the box and photograph the diode soldered to a pot. This would clearly show anyone who does not believe hung has a model with a diode solered to a pot, that he actually does have this alleged model. Hung could also easily mark such a photo to show where to connect the meter leads so we can also check the meter readings he and "his team" allegedly witnessed when connected to the circuit inside the Ranger Tell box. (Such a photo could also whittle down the number of false hung statements shown in the example from 3 to 2).

Best wishes,
J_P

[hung]

Clondike, your examiner is not in normal state. I'm positive about it.
Wheter is a deffective calculator, battery, something broken inside, I don't know. The circuit is very, very simple and if a diode is broken, it would probably make the unit malfunction.
And no, the only possibility there is to explain why this device does not work is if it's broken. I built the examiner circuit shown in Carl's report and it worked from the start several years ago. The later diode version is without a doubt noticibly faster in its target responses.

I suggest you contact RT as soon as possible and tell them about your case. I'm almost sure they will send you another unit.
But you did not answer my question.
Has this Examiner ever swung the antenna operated by you, or the still state only happened lately?

Without this answer I don't know what to say about it.

For those who confuse bioenergy with ideomotor, I simply say that they still have a long, long way to go down the road that leads to knowledge about this subject.
As a matter of fact the BIONIC 01 from OKM uses bio energy as stage 1 for detection process and the unit is totally electronic. It's a superb device by the way.

So, those who believe in all those ideomotor thing, keep it to yourself. I will respect your opinion. I just ask that you respect mine and don't start a debate emitting pre-judgements as undisputed truth about a subject you don't completely understand yet. Maybe someday you will.

[Qiaozhi]

As for those who confuses bioenergy with ideomotor, I simply say that they still have a long, long way to go down the road that leads to knowledge about this subject.

There is no confusion at our end ... I assure you. Unfortunately I cannot say the same for you.

As a matter of fact the BIONIC 01 from OKM uses bio energy as stage 1 for detection process and the unit is totally electronic. It's a superb device by the way.

This is not fact. It is pseudo-science, as you well know.

So, those who believe in all those ideomotor thing, keep to yourself. I will respect your opinion. I just ask that you respect mine and don't start a debate over a subject you don't completely understand yet. Maybe someday you will.

No misunderstanding here. Until you are prepared to do a double-blind test you are doomed to wallow in superstitious ignorance.

[J_Player]

So, those who believe in all those ideomotor thing, keep to yourself. I will respect your opinion. I just ask that you respect mine and don't start a debate over a subject you don't completely understand yet. Maybe someday you will.

The general purpose of the Geotech forums is to exchange information, not to hide information. With few proprietary information exceptions, we try to explain how treasure hunting mechanisms work. Thus, it would behoove any believers in ideamotor response to explain how it works, and those who don't believe to explain why not. Simply hiding what you believe to be the truth does nothing to further the knowledge of what is really happening with LRL detectors.

Best wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

I believe the examiner can't move by itself as it needs the charges from the human operator. If you visit RT's site, you will find this explanation in detail. I for myself am convinced that not only charges are involved but somehow the EM signatures of the operator also. They are conected.

"Body energy" is synonymous with "ideomotor". Stop the device from being tilted (even if the hand is still in contact), and it stops working.

Hmmm... According to hung, maybe not...
Ideamotor response implies that the operator must have some belief of where he thinks the target is located in order for involuntary muscle impulses to be processed by the brain. But hung's explanation says "charges from the human operator" are needed, as well as he believes the "EM signature of the operator" is also involved. It appears that hung's concept of the operation of a Ranger Tell is not simple ideamotor response. Perhaps a test can be devised to see if hung's concept is correct. Here is what Theseus posted to test hung's idea:

Okay! If the examiner needs a charge from the human operator, just put the thing on the camera tripod, as was suggested, and simply connect a 6 foot length of wire from the metal tripod, holding the RT dowsing rod, and then let the operator grasp the other end of the wire. Now the tripod, the Examiner and the operator are all at the same electrical potential, and the charge from the operator is transferred to the Examiner (dowsing wand).

Now this looks like a good test...
But wait... there are a few details that must be dealt with:
First, a metal tripod could interfere with alleged signals from a target as well as the EM field of the operator. Also, a 6-foot wire could also cause similar interference, as well as pick up some stray electrical noise that would not be present if the wire were not there.

Suppose we modify the Theseus test a little...
Why not mount the ranger tell to a non-metalic version of a tripod? Suppose a tripod were built with three wooden legs and a platform with three dowel holes on the bottom to accept the three legs. On the top, epoxy a wooden tube that the Ranger Tell handle will slide into. Be sure to cut a vertical slot along the length both sides of this tube so you can stretch rubber bands around it to clamp down tight against the Ranger Tell handle. Now we have the ranger tell mounted on a non-metallic tripod that can be leveled so that when the Ranger Tell is spun, it comes to a stop pointing random directions and does not favour any particular direction. The Ranger Tell should be mounted at the same elevation that it is normally held.

At this point, I would think it important that the operator stood in a position where he could hold the Ranger Tell in the same manner as if the tripod were not there. This would alleviate any concerns that his "EM field" is not at the proper distance from the Ranger Tell. Now the testing is ready to begin. Press you favorite calculator buttons to get the gold frequency. While the operator is holding the Ranger Tell, his assistant can be moving gold objects across the field of view in the distance ahead. A fishing rod may be helpful to move gold jewelry across the field quickly. I suppose we should now see the Ranger Tell begin to swivel and to track the movement of the gold jewelry.

So do you think this could be a good test to see if hung's concept is correct?

Best Wishes,
J_P