Texas Treasure Show

[H3 Tec]

Again, you have more knowledge than anyone I know. Maybe you should have come over and talked to me at the show. I was there for anyone to ask me anything that would help.

Thanks for all your insight. Now I can go back to my patent attorney's and demand some money back for all the office actions they must have drummed up.

[Theseus]

yes it has a rod, however it is not free moving when the device is turned on. << other stuff snipped >>

If the "rod" is not free moving when the device is turned on, then is there also NO requirement for the device to be held in the operator's hand?

Might it be clamped in a holding fixture, while waving the appropriate "isotope" of material in front of it --and does the rod then follow the movement of the target?

[Dell Winders]

Good point. Dell

[H3 Tec]

yes absolutely.. this ain't your grandma's dousing whirley gig

[Tim Williams]

The unit I saw and held had a free moving rod when it was turned on. From what I saw it made no difference if it was on or off the rod flopped around when the unit was tilted. The owner agrees with me on this. I think the rod should be converted to a led indication if it is a true electronic LRL.

My question is; the unit I saw is it the same unit the gov is using? Are you selling a different unit to the public? Let me know when you have it without the rod and I will take another look.

Tim

[H3 Tec]

well, of course there are many models. I'm not sure why you think I need your validation? But I will be glad to keep working with you. We have a new major release every 9 months.

[Tim Williams]

Good I look forward to the rod less unit.

Tim

[Carl-NC]

"yes it has a rod, however it is not free moving when the device is turned on."

Not what I saw at the show either, the rod flopped whether on or off.

I was also told you have to hold the device for it to work, can't mount it in a fixture.

H3, any response on a double-blind demonstration?

- Carl

[J_Player]

As time passes, we read more forum posts about the H3 Tec without much information being revealed concerning the details. According to Carl-NC and Tim Williams, it is a dowsing rod in a fancy case. It would be easy to say that Carl is a confirmed skeptic, and is giving a biased report. But Tim Williams -- the LRL man? If anyone should know what a dowsing rod is, I would expect Tim to know.

Then we have the posts by H3 Tec, saying it is not a dowsing rod, but an electronic device. But after several posts, we still don't see much details about what it actually does, except some comments about isotopes that the detector must be adjusted to. Apparently H3 Tec did not read my post requesting that they explain more about how it works, or set up a demonstration for the people who read this forum.

But there is more information. On the H3 Tec website, there are a lot of interesting explanations of how this machine works.
For example, the H3 Tec people coined the term "nano-ionic resonance" to describe the process of "listening to atoms talk" in the method used by their LRL. "H3 Tec has made important discoveries which, added to the existing known and established sciences, provide a method of talking to and listening to each atom's voice". See this page: http://www.h3tec.com/faq.html

We also can read where the H3 Tec is characterized a "treasure tricorder" on this page that shows a picture of the LRL: http://www.h3tec.com/product.html

While the words on the H3 Tec site don't mean much technically, we see a clue in H3 Tec's forum posts that points in the direction of isotope detection. Ok, so there we have it. The forum members who saw the H3 Tec LRL at the show think it is a fancy dowsing rod, and H3 Tec says no, it is an electronic isotope detector that works long range.

But wait...
There is still that annoying problem of why didn't the H3 Tec notice the 10 oz silver bar in Carl's pocket as he walked in front of it when they were scanning for silver?
In fact, why weren't they able to detect the silver Tim Williams hid either?

Again, we see H3 Tec's answer is it is looking for specific isotopes of the treasure:

It could be a ton of U.S. silver, if the isotope was silver 107, and they were looking for silver 109, they would miss it, because it wasn't looking for silver 109. We set the target to a specific atomic signature, and weight from the specific element mass, type, and isotopes. It's not a very simple process so I expect some push back from everyone that doesn't have an advanced Chemistry, physics, and engineering background.

Sounds reasonable, right?
You are set for the wrong isotope then you don't find the treasure?
Sure it sounds reasonable if you are technically illiterate.

Should we presume that of the two stable isotopes of silver, that they happened to be set up for the other isotope of silver different from the isotope of silver that was contained in the 10-oz bar in Carl's pocket?
How stupid do you think we are?
It has been long established that all silver found in nature is composed of about half of the isotope 107 and half of the isotope 109*. Are we to believe that there was some amazing exception to the bar hidden in Carl's pocket, and it was composed only of the silver isotopes that your detector wasn't set to?
It was not about half of each isotope, same as the silver you were searching for?

And what about the silver that Tim Williams hid? What was the trouble in finding that silver?

We see the H3 Tec website with pseudoscientific descriptions of the process, lots of hype about amazed customers and a really half-baked post in this forum to explain why it cannot find silver when the operator of the device does not know it is there. After reading up on H3 Tec, my pinion is becoming more decided in the direction of Carl-NC and Tim Williams. Hopefully the H3 Tec people can show us something substantial to help us believe this LRL can actually find treasure.

Best wishes,
J_P


* The percentage of isotope Ag107 was only found to be measurably different in an iron meteorite that had a high enough palladium to silver ratio that would allow the radioactive decay of palladium 107 into silver 107 isotope over many billions of years. All other natural silver found on earth has the standard percentage of Ag107 (51.839%) and Ag109 (48.161).

[Theseus]

All good points J_Player, but no real concrete info from H3. When eye witnesses agree it is a "free-flopping" rod (switch On or Off) I find it hard to fathom how it could be anything else but another ideomotor-driven dowsing wand with added do-nothing electronics, which basically senses gravity and gentle breezes.

If H3 really have come up with a technology able to sense hidden/buried treasure - why burden the concept with error-prone flopping L-rods. Seems like the readout should be a digital meter, or LEDs or......... something other than a readout that resembles "grandma's dowsing stick".

[hung]

H3Tec,

I have no doubt that nano ionic resonance technology when properly understood works. Proof of that is Mineoro's ionic rods IGD and DIAS, their electronic devices, the RT Examiner along with many so called dowsing based rods.

The fact that you claim H3Tec works on specific isotope chains for a perfect fine tuning of the element, brings up some inconveniences such as requring the user to switch 'combos' for that specific isotope as you said yourself. Considering the amount of elements in the periodic table and the isotopes involved, this would be at minimum, extremely awkward.

Note that this is my prelimary impression as I don't have the exact data on how your detectors were made. I just have the data you provided on your site and also here in this discussion. Also, not even a manual is available for details.

I see there's a needle which indicates activity. Wheter its movement is produced by electronic excitation of the circuit or by external source for alignment, still is not clear. But considering real life detection conditions for silver for instance in which different type of isotopes are found and even mixed, probably spin resonance should have been considered to gather more data from the sought element.

I also noticed the extremely high price tag for the device.
It seems H3Tec is based in a Country really far from the US where the severe financial crisis has hit and would be almost impossible for a common person have financial acess to one of these devices.

Unless H3Tec wants their customers to start a 'closed comunity' as the Illuminati, with only the wealth and rich being able to use their devices.

With all respect, with a simple and much cheaper RT Examiner, the same results are achieved and better yet, estimates on target's data, distance, shape, weight and depth are possible.

As a final word, if you take Carl's pseudo scientific conclusions on your device, you will waste your time and you will be lost. He used the same argument about your device not being able to detect a silver sample he had in his pocket, as he did once with the RT Examiner. He completely ignored that in the Examiner's case if it's tuned to a specific target shape or mass, it will exclude anything different from that, even if it's derived from the same substance.
So, if it's programmed to detect a loop shape gold object, it won't detect a gold bar for instance. The knob also acts as an amplitude limiter, so even if it's set for gold including all objects, if it is set for small mass, it will ignore bigger targets.
Is it a perfect failproof device? Of course not, but it's a great tool for the buck.

Hope soon H3Tec provides a user manual in their site and also demo videos showing how the device is used.
But so far as I said, the price tag is unreal and utopic in my opinion.

Anyway, good luck with your device and welcome to the LRL arena.

[Theseus]

H3Tec,

I have no doubt that nano ionic resonance technology when properly understood works.

No big surprise you would think that way! What's your opinion of Heberstadt Octabier Reflective Hefershafts?

As a final word, if you take Carl's pseudo scientific conclusions on your device, you will waste your time and you will be lost. He used the same argument about your device not being able to detect a silver sample he had in his pocket, as he did once with the RT Examiner. He completely ignored that in the Examiner's case if it's tuned to a specific target shape or mass, it will exclude anything different from that, even if it's derived from the same substance.
So, if it's programmed to detect a loop shape gold object, it won't detect a gold bar for instance. The knob also acts as an amplitude limiter, so even if it's set for gold including all objects, if it is set for small mass, it will ignore bigger targets.

Hey, Hung, April Fool's was several days ago.

Yawn.... when does the debunkering start???

[Dell Winders]

What's your opinion of Heberstadt Octabier Reflective Hefershafts?

That it is a stupid quote used by Skeptic Nut case, Sam Scafferi!
Dell

[J_Player]

If H3 really have come up with a technology able to sense hidden/buried treasure - why burden the concept with error-prone flopping L-rods. Seems like the readout should be a digital meter, or LEDs or.........

Hi Theseus,
I could care less how it finds treasure. What about the fact that it failed to find treasure twice when the operator of the LRL did not know the treasure is nearby?
Doesn't this make it pretty useless to a treasure hunter?

There is no such thing as special silver that has a different isotope signature than other silver in the treasure hunting world. Wierd Isotopes of silver are mostly synthetic, and have a very short half life. Thus, they don't exist in any substantial amount outside the laboratory on account of they fizzled away shortly after they were formed, decaying into lead or cadmium.

Suppose your VLF detector failed to discriminate between iron and a pure silver bar?
Would you claim that your VLF detector couldn't find the bar because it is low-conductivity magnetic silver, not the high conductivity non-magnetic silver that you set the discrimination for? Are any of the readers of this forum stupid enough to believe that?
Or stupid enough to believe treasure silver has different isotopic compositions?

Oh yes... there's hung. He would believe that. He is the same reader who believes the Ranger Tell contains transmitting equipment that shoots a signal line that is returned. And that Gold has DNA which produces a substance that protects the surface of the metal from corrosion. So why not believe that silver hidden in a field could have a different composition of isotopes than silver in Carl's pocket?

Actually I wouldn't feel too bad if hung bought one of the H3 Tec units and signed up for advanced training. It's the other ignorant people who swallow this crap and pay a huge price tag that concern me.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

With all respect, with a simple and much cheaper RT Examiner, the same results are achieved and better yet, estimates on target's data, distance, shape, weight and depth are possible.

In all honesty, I find these same estimates on target data are obtainable with Carl's cheap frequency generator, a weight check, or frequency offset, and a pair of Dowsing Rods. Dell