REAL LRL ???!!!

[Fred]

Deppend...

Exactly as Max said,
depends of the secret ingredient or tuning involved...i know.
WE reverse-enginnered morgan´s pd, but still there is a secret component we are not aware of...

I am not telling nothing works or there is no effect due to long time buried metal, just that it didn´t work with me.

[J_Player]

Who has said that Zahori works for treasure finding?
It never can. I tested it and got nothing. It detects electrical lines, power lines as the best. you can even find hidden cables in wall and track it.
even can recognize if in a dark room is any electrical appliance in standby.
it especially detects high voltage lines even from 100 meters.

Hi Michael.
Esteban said the Zahori works for finding treasure:

If there are a treasure or a good conductive metal buried for long time, then sure you'll find it.

when you have not made complete tests at different conditions how can run decisive statements against that????

The statement I made is "I do not believe they work"
I can make that decisive statement because I am absolutely sure of what I do not believe. Nobody else is decisively sure of what I believe, only me. I have not said that they don't work, only that I don't believe they work. And I am decisively sure that I don't believe the Zahori will find treasure.

I read where Esteban says "If there are a treasure or a good conductive metal buried for long time, then sure you'll find it". But I also read where most other people say the Zahori will find only electric fields from static and power lines, not treasure. Whether to believe the writing of Esteban or other people who post in the forum is the choice of the reader. Therefore I am free to believe as I wish, regardless of what the reality is for the Zahori.

It is quite possible that the Zahori does find treasure, and that I don't believe it because I have never seen it working in front of me live, where I could recover treasure with it. It is also possible that the Zahori works for Estaban, regardless of the posts that others made saying it does not find treasure. Until I see it recover treasure, I will continue to not believe it can find treasure. But keep in mind, I am only saying this is something I do not believe. I am not saying it cannot find treasure.

Best wishes,
J_P

[michael]

Hi Michael
Zahori is electrostatic filed detector. As you said also it can detect electrical filed .
Buried metals at very longtime also produced static field. But it is strange ,why
It cannot detect static field from very longtime Buried metals?
Best regards.

Hi Aft,
you tell it's electrostatic field detector. or maybe other guy has told this.
I'm not its' designer or commentator. what it is in real is what it do, yes??
what we experience with that can be regarded as a document not what we theoretically hear. OK?
It's not a play with words.
what I experienced with Zahori: detects electrical field of all electrical appliances, wires power lines, but never detects battery sparks, car working engine/ spark-plugs or when ignite the car.
FG80 was reverse could detects all of car activities, battery sparks, but had no reaction to electrical components except to TV.
I remember well, when I approached zahorin to a refrigerator had very clear signal , but FG80 was silent. or in reverse at one night in cloudy sky which had sky flashing in some kilometers away(could be 60-100 kilometers), FG80 had clear reflect but zahori was silent. FG80 had beep for each sky flash. and beep time would exactly last proportion to flash time.
PD is somehow similar to FG80, of course more sensitive to battery sparks, but less sensitive to TV. without any reaction to other electrical appliances or lines.
now you gather these an make a decisive conclusion.
about long time buried target I don't know what's the real quiddity and never run any personal equation, but what
I experienced on treasure locations demonstrates it's something like battery sparks(electrostatic or anything else)
what Esteban has been saying since beginnings in this forum, he always likened treasure to ground battery; what a good calling.

All good facts. There is much to be learned from such simple and concise statements.

Electrostatic detectors work just fine at detecting "real" electrostatic fields. Therefore, it should be no mystery why none of these electrostatic detectors indicate the location of long time buried metals. The correct answer is; there are NO static or electrostatic fields produced by long time buried metals.
There is no mystery, you've solved your own conundrum, accept the answer and move

above answers concerns to this also. not bad take a look here :

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15242

I reflected about my experiences with my PD, of course if you are not in doom and gloom.

Esteban said the Zahori works for finding treasure

Hi J-Player.
If so, I should tell; with all respects to Esteban which I always observe, in this part I really oppose to him as I personally got no signal near, or above real treasure locations that are very big and thousands year old.
but PD works and works much better than mineoro devices like FG80.

I read where Esteban says "If there are a treasure or a good conductive metal buried for long time, then sure you'll find it".

maybe his purpose is for superficial buried targets, about deep targets which I have here remains silent. I'm sure.

[Esteban]

Is very simple: first, detect a good target (better if big and old for to note difference). Connect a simple needle microamp over the site of the target and see. Put the same microamp in surrounding place free of metal and compare. Occurs that, the more of time, persons only dig the targets and don't study other phenomenon.

[J_Player]

Is very simple: first, detect a good target (better if big and old for to note difference). Connect a simple needle microamp over the site of the target and see. Put the same microamp in surrounding place free of metal and compare. Occurs that, the more of time, persons only dig the targets and don't study other phenomenon.

Hi Esteban,
This is not the simple answer that Michael requested. Michael has implied that only a personal experience of testing the Zahori in all kinds of conditions is a good test. He says it is not good to use theories to prove that the Zahori works, only actual testing experience to see if it is finding treasure. According to Michael, he has made these actual tests with the Zahori, and he has seen that the Zahori does not find long-time buried large treasures.

You are the only person who I see in the Zahori thread who said the Zahori will find long-time buried treasure. Everyone else who tested the Zahori said their tests showed it will not find treasure. According to Michael, if you test with a Zahori, you wlill not find a large long-time buried treasure.

Your test with a microammeter is not a test with a Zahori.
Have you made this test with a Zahori, and you saw your Zahori locating a long-time buried metal target?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Morgan]

PD at work

Hi.
Who has said that Zahori works for treasure finding?
It never can. I tested it and got nothing. It detects electrical lines, power lines as the best. you can even find hidden cables in wall and track it.
even can recognize if in a dark room is any electrical appliance in standby.
it especially detects high voltage lines even from 100 meters.
but about PD; it works for treasure finding, it really works.
I personally experienced this.
when you have not made complete tests at different conditions how can run decisive statements against that????
I can work with LRLs, but each one has it's advantages and disadvantages.
now the best usability of L- rods for me is to determine depth of target reliably but after finding treasure point with my MDL.
as MDL detection is most reliable and quick.
MDL is the best device for either LRLing or pinpointing, but its' disadvantages are: 1- big dimension of 2x2 m loop
and 2- it hits big targets at great depths as if are on surface.
anyway LRLs work but not as being advertised or we expect of a conventional detector. they are relative.
good luck.

Hi Michael

Thanks to your words in this forum about Pistoldetektor as a true LRL,this acts like a sword in the heads of the people who call me a lier.
Better improvments for more distance and selectivity to GOLD,will be send to you very soon.

Regards

[Morgan]

The Zahory

Hi Esteban,
This is not the simple answer that Michael requested. Michael has implied that only a personal experience of testing the Zahori in all kinds of conditions is a good test. He says it is not good to use theories to prove that the Zahori works, only actual testing experience to see if it is finding treasure. According to Michael, he has made these actual tests with the Zahori, and he has seen that the Zahori does not find long-time buried large treasures.

You are the only person who I see in the Zahori thread who said the Zahori will find long-time buried treasure. Everyone else who tested the Zahori said their tests showed it will not find treasure. According to Michael, if you test with a Zahori, you wlill not find a large long-time buried treasure.

Your test with a microammeter is not a test with a Zahori.
Have you made this test with a Zahori, and you saw your Zahori locating a long-time buried metal target?

Best wishes,
J_P

The Zahory,exactly as IVCONIC presents here in this forum,its not possible to detect buried metals or even treasure. Its like a car without engine...
Esteban know very well wath kind of engine i´m talking about,just one more PCB together with the Antenna,et voila,all the Zahorys working as LRL. Static field around copper wires is one thing,around GOLD is another thing...The EE in this forum can answer,static is STATIC,i laugh a little...

[J_Player]

Esteban know very well wath kind of engine i´m talking about,just one more PCB together with the Antenna,et voila,all the Zahorys working as LRL. Static field around copper wires is one thing,around GOLD is another thing...The EE in this forum can answer,static is STATIC,i laugh a little...

Hi Morgan,
You mean Max and Fred were right?
The Zahori does not work unless another secret circuit is connected to it? It is an incomplete LRL design?

This would mean that I am better to believe that the Zahori that is shown in the forum does not work to find treasure. I have read reports of all people who built the Zahori say it cannot find treasure except Esteban, so I will continue to believe the people who say they tested it and found it does not find treasure, not Esteban.

The modified Zahori with secret circuits added is another story. I can say nothing about that.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Morgan]

The Zahori

Hi Morgan,
You mean Max and Fred were right?
The Zahori does not work unless another secret circuit is connected to it? It is an incomplete LRL design?

This would mean that I am better to believe that the Zahori that is shown in the forum does not work to find treasure. I have read reports of all people who built the Zahori say it cannot find treasure except Esteban, so I will continue to believe the people who say they tested it and found it does not find treasure, not Esteban.

The modified Zahori with secret circuits added is another story. I can say nothing about that.

Best wishes,
J_P

The Zahori presented in this forum,canot found any treasure.
I´m not EE to say that,buy i know,and Esteban know better. To work,it needs a few more extras.

[michael]

The Zahori presented in this forum,canot found any treasure.
I´m not EE to say that,buy i know,and Esteban know better. To work,it needs a few more extras.

Hi Morgan.
If so, what a pity for so much time we dedicated for Zahori.
I made it with love as made PD so.
This is very annoying. what an unfairly manner and grievous. this offended my mind/hear deeply. What a despised world.

[Geo]

Uhm... ok... but it's not easy cause nobody wanna post it... or just cause it's impossible make any LRL thing that works ?

Good practical schematic is what we need to demonstrate that LRL principles (whatever they are) are not just pure speculation: till now I never see anything similar here... no one single post about a working LRL, easy enough and complete to make some stupid test like detect a coin at a meter distance.... not just one!

SO... considering that here we have a huge number of working schematics of real devices, mds etc... and this is 1st place in the world for such kind of things... I don't understand why we don't have any "easy" testable schematic to work on...

I think it's a trick of mind... it beeps and you think it detected the target.... then you already are in a place RICH of good stuff (and you surely are when testing that things... dear Geo) and so you'll think it's the lrl/pistol or whatever that signals you the place where to dig... you recover something GOOD and think it works for real...

but I think are just coincidences... cause if I go in a RICH place and dig an hole I'll sure find something good... silver, copper, bronze or even gold stuff... no need of a beep beep to do that.

What I said is probably your case, cause I dubt you checked first your soil with conventional MDs (cause lrl fanatics told you don't cause that will "destroy" lrl signal!)

Kind regards,
Max

Hi Max. I will agree with you at the most things. I will try to write my experience with little words. I saw real LRLs, i worked with real LRLs but i did not find any treasure yet with LRL or with other metal detector.
The LRLs who i worked, i cant understand as electronic engineer how they work, at who principle. For example.... with Iconos i found 3 small items at the same place and i got a lot of times strong signal at archaiologic places but i can't dig. But last time at a mountain iconos did not gave me signal but other detectors gave signal for gold. I had another machine that had the ability to locate a door at 30m, metal pipes at 10 m but was so sensitive who was no practical to locate objects Last time i am working on a ferrite type LRL. Very very critical adjustments. One time i located a gold coin at 10m +++ , a inox object at 20m++ and a car speaker at 30m+ very easy. BUT the problem is that every time when i readjust it a little, it stop to work. Really i lost my sleep. Some times i believe that it dont work as a electronic device....
Really i dont know....... lrl exists but.... not so simple as a metal detector, maybe they need special conditions ... maybe....


Regards

[Morgan]

Zahori

Hi Morgan.
If so, what a pity for so much time we dedicated for Zahori.
I made it with love as made PD so.
This is very annoying. what an unfairly manner and grievous. this offended my mind/hear deeply. What a despised world.

I understand why Esteban not give all the clues. Its becouse people envolved in LRL can deceive him,and all his work around LRL devices. But he gives enough circuits and clues to build LRL´s,all should work in the limits and make many field tests, but the reality ,LRL works.

[Morgan]

PD

Hi Max. I will agree with you at the most things. I will try to write my experience with little words. I saw real LRLs, i worked with real LRLs but i did not find any treasure yet with LRL or with other metal detector.
The LRLs who i worked, i cant understand as electronic engineer how they work, at who principle. For example.... with Iconos i found 3 small items at the same place and i got a lot of times strong signal at archaiologic places but i can't dig. But last time at a mountain iconos did not gave me signal but other detectors gave signal for gold. I had another machine that had the ability to locate a door at 30m, metal pipes at 10 m but was so sensitive who was no practical to locate objects Last time i am working on a ferrite type LRL. Very very critical adjustments. One time i located a gold coin at 10m +++ , a inox object at 20m++ and a car speaker at 30m+ very easy. BUT the problem is that every time when i readjust it a little, it stop to work. Really i lost my sleep. Some times i believe that it dont work as a electronic device....
Really i dont know....... lrl exists but.... not so simple as a metal detector, maybe they need special conditions ... maybe....


Regards

Yes,you are rigth,The Pistoldetektor only find small objects if you have the skill to put it in critical and limit adjustment,this is what i told many times here. You can see this when serch during the nigth,the Green LED stay more bright when you are near the electric field produced by buried metal,and if the pistol is in limit of sensitivity it catch weak electric fields produced by small objets,the target will produce the buzzer beeps,otherwise if not in limit you only will find very big targets. I´m talking about fractions of milimeter,when you turn the 100K Potentiometer. Actualy i´m using one multiturn POT. anyway its sometimes dificult,but the findings and the pleasure of using one working LRL compensate the hard work of calibration.

[Geo]

Yes,you are rigth,The Pistoldetektor only find small objects if you have the skill to put it in critical and limit adjustment,this is what i told many times here. You can see this when serch during the nigth,the Green LED stay more bright when you are near the electric field produced by buried metal,and if the pistol is in limit of sensitivity it catch weak electric fields produced by small objets,the target will produce the buzzer beeps,otherwise if not in limit you only will find very big targets. I´m talking about fractions of milimeter,when you turn the 100K Potentiometer. Actualy i´m using one multiturn POT. anyway its sometimes dificult,but the findings and the pleasure of using one working LRL compensate the hard work of calibration.

Hi Morgan
I don't speak about Pistol Detector but about another lrl very very powerfull but i cant do it to work anytime. I made it to work only 3 times with fantastic results.

Regards

[Max]

Hi Morgan,
You mean Max and Fred were right?
The Zahori does not work unless another secret circuit is connected to it? It is an incomplete LRL design?

This would mean that I am better to believe that the Zahori that is shown in the forum does not work to find treasure. I have read reports of all people who built the Zahori say it cannot find treasure except Esteban, so I will continue to believe the people who say they tested it and found it does not find treasure, not Esteban.

The modified Zahori with secret circuits added is another story. I can say nothing about that.

Best wishes,
J_P

As I wrote before... they will always say that there's something we (e.g. me and Fred) didn't implement in our devices... so they will stay there in the lrl-hollywoodland and we'll stay here in real world of electronics.

I'm starting thinking that their secret "detail" is something like some drops of acid on paper... we have just paper so will be about disappointed of what we see but they will be sure much more happy!

About same piece of stuff (wood, copper, fiberglass, plastic... etc) but their is spicy!

Kind regards,
Max