The so-called PHENOMENON

[Morgan]

...

Hi J_P.
I would like at least other 2 persons, not alone. It is different if 3 or more persons check the PD from Morgan and say "OK, it work", and different if only Geo see it. Some people will say maybe Geo did not saw well, maybe he is friend with Morgan etc.

Regards

You,and your friends who decide to come here,are wellcome.
Once for all this forum needs the true about PD.
Also other LRL,Mineoro and others are ready to test.
Hotel here is not expensive,so if you have free time,can visit south of Portugal...

[Geo]

Hi Morgan. I dont like to come alone. I want and other members. For me is a easy way to see the original PD working. We try here 1.5 year to clone it without results and we dont pay 1000 euro to go a traver (as holiday) to Portugal to see the PD.
Regards

[Geo]

Maybe Manolo can visit Portugal....
Eee Manolo where are you????
Regards

[ivconic]

Discussion will be focused on topics.

Yes fellas, Esteban is right. Don't let this turn into spittin' arena. Better use same energy on pro et contra facts on this subject.

[Max]

Each time i become more curious about you.You have real head problems.
I think you should come with Geo to Portugal,traveling will help you...
Sure you will like to know the true about PD,than you can tell to everybody in forum your experience.

Last time I was in Spain I was about always drunk and tired... not a good starting point to check the PD...
You know... every night at the club...
I'd like to visit south of Portugal... though seems already now very hot indeed... expecially at summer it IS...problem is that I can't do that cause I'm too busy here... maybe I don't make any holidays this year...

What to say... hope someone full of goodwill will see that PD working!

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Yes fellas, Esteban is right. Don't let this turn into spittin' arena. Better use same energy on pro et contra facts on this subject.

Ok, back to the facts on subject of this thread: Quaozhi's discussion of the DNA of gold.

I must admit, I am skeptical about the existence of gold DNA, or a substance it produces that protects gold against rust, corrosion, etc. After searching every detail I could think of that might lead to information about the DNA of gold, I came up with nothing.

Does gold have DNA?
DNA is a nucleic acid that contains the genetic instructions used in the development and functioning of all known living organisms and some viruses. As far as I know, gold has never been alive, and has no cells or cell nuclei. Thus it cannot produce any organic acids that store genetic data, nor can the non-existent gold DNA produce any other substances that would protect gold from rust, oxidation, etc.

But hung maintains it is true, gold does have DNA, but he is not interested in explaining anything about it. This leads me to wonder why hung would say this in the first place when he has no interest in explaining anything to back up his claim?

Can you explain your own ideas and experiences with gold that might convince Qiaozhi or the rest of us forum readers that gold has DNA that produces a substance to protect it?

Originally posted by hung
This is a private survey I'm involved.
I have absolutely no interest whasoever in discussing it or convincing anyone about it. But even if I did have... no, I beleive I would not be able to convince you or some skeptics here and I doubt it that I would ever be.
Too many other aspects involved which 'conventional' science still has no data. Sorry.
Gotta go now.

I can only speculate that this is part of hung's "debunkering" campaign to post his correct information in this forum when he sees people believing wrong science. Or perhaps the meaning was lost between the time hung thought of his idea of gold DNA, and when he debunkered in the forum. Maybe some alternate translations of what hung was thinking are in order...

Possible translations of hung's answer:
1. Hahahahaaa I was able to get away with posting that gold DNA crap by using the old "secret research BS" trick.
2. If I told anyone about the gold DNA I saw with the electron microscope that I built from kitchen utensils and an old Mr, Coffee pot, they still wouldn't believe me.
3. Somebody in Myron Evans forum said gold has DNA. This pretty much proves gold has DNA. Too bad I can't reveal any secret information I learn in the Myron Evans forum.
4. Hmmmm... I looked everywhere for gold DNA, but I can't seem to find it. Note to self: Next time I make up some science and tell people it is a fact, first check online to see if I can find someone who agrees with me.

Not sure if my translations are correct or not.

Best wishes,
J_P

[ivconic]

Gold or any other metal does not have DNA...of course, but do have specific atomic structure which in a way we may take as its "DNA".... I guess Hung wanted to point on some specific feature which makes gold different than other metals and unique. We can name many features here. Which one Hung has on his mind..i dont know.
About corrosion; gold does not corrode, yes it is a fact. But gold also is producing (in time) certain patina. I really can not explain what exactly it is (actually i can...read more). But i guess it present some inpurities that gold "reject" in time, under objective influences.
Also you forgot one very important fact; if we are talking about golden items in soil, than you must know those are not made from 100% gold, but from various alloys. Usually gold was mixed with Cu,Ag and Fe in ancient times. To be specific on this we must take exact item and study it and it's origin, history, krafting technique and civilisation (habits) which made that item. Than we will know exact metal percentages in that alloy.
So...if it was Au/Fe alloy than it is no wonder to find some corrosion in traces on item surface, no matter it is golden. More Fe in that alloy - more corrosion....etc...etc...
You understand what i want to say?
Do not consider term "gold", oftenly used here, as pure 100% gold. But keep in mind that it was most probably some alloy.

[J_Player]

I guess Hung wanted to point on some specific feature which makes gold different than other metals and unique. We can name many features here. Which one Hung has on his mind..i dont know.

Hi Ivconic,
I first thought hung only meant to point out some specific feature which makes gold different and unique like you did. But when I read how he says the gold DNA produces a substance which coats the metal, I realized he is talking about nucleic acid produciing an organic substance. I agree with you, that this is not the case for gold, or any other solid metallic object.

About corrosion; gold does not corrode, yes it is a fact. But gold also is producing (in time) certain patina. I really can not explain what exactly it is (actually i can...read more). But i guess it present some inpurities that gold "reject" in time, under objective influences.
Also you forgot one very important fact; if we are talking about golden items in soil, than you must know those are not made from 100% gold, but from various alloys. Usually gold was mixed with Cu,Ag and Fe in ancient times.

You are correct about gold having other alloying elements. Natural gold often has similar alloying elements as are used in jewery, and in similar concentrations. Gold nuggets can be found with over 90% gold, or under 50%. California gold nuggets are usually in the 90% range. The alloying elements are usually silver and copper, and in lesser amounts, lead, platinum, tellurium, zinc or other metals. I sometimes wonder how much of the alloying elements corrode from a long-time buried piece of gold.

But the idea that gold does not corrode has been proven to be false. When you look at a gold item, You cannot see signs of corrosion over the years, but you can sometimes see a patina, as you described. No doubt, the patina has is caused by alloying elements and abrasion to the surface. However, scientists have discovered that long-time buried gold does corrode. The amount is much less than for copper, but enough gold corrodes to cause gold ions to go into solution with the soil around it amd migrate up to the surface, where it quickly becomes bound with elements at the surface and becomes part of the soil as a gold compound or microscopic metallic gold. Althopugh the process is slow, large amounts of gold are moving in the soil by this method. The corrosion of gold under the ground is not something that would happen easily above the surface, because there are colonies of microorganisms below the surface that are excreting chemicals such as cyanide and suolfur complexes which are capable of dissolving gold and suspending it in the soil as ions. A particular strain of gold-attacking bacteria has caused concerns at Fort Knox about the shrinkage of gold ingots stored below in vaults. (These vaults do not allow the gold bars to touch the soil, yet these bacteria are still corroding gold from the surface of the bars. The particular strain thrives dark,places without much oxygen like underground vaults or in the soil or rock crevices below the soil).

There are other microbes that can actually precipitate metallic gold from the ions that are released into the soil, thus forming new nuggets some distance above the original gold that was below. They have also been observed to deposit new, very pure gold on the surface of existing nuggets. Does this sound hard to believe? If it is true, it means there are gold ions in the soil, and not just a few unmeasurable ions, but enough to make nuggets from.

According to geomicrobiologist Frank Reith, "...the precipitation of gold by micro-organisms, and thus in the biomineralisation of gold, which as recent evidence suggests has led to the formation of some of the world largest gold deposits."
But in addition to micro-organisms precipitating metallic gold, there are microbes that ionize and dissolve gold:
"In soils with high contents of organic matter heterotrophic bacteria and fungi appear to dominate the gold dissolution by excreting amino acids, low molecular weight organic acids (LMWOAs), cyanide or organic sulfur compounds. These molecules were shown to have the ability to dissolve native gold and act as complexing agents for the resulting gold ions."

Wet soil samples were incubated with these microbes, then gold pellets were added to the soil. After 20-30 days of incubation, up to 3 ppm of gold was found in solution, compared to none measurable in the sterilized soil samples with gold pellets.
Now, how do atoms from a gold pellet get into solution? They have to become ionized first! Thus it cannot be true that buried gold does not form ions. We are talking about small amounts (3ppm), But this is the amount measured in some small sample test areas after a month in the ground. The investigations into mine sites from the real world show that this process can happen on a much larger scale, creating nuggets that are very pure where microbes precipitated the gold (98% and better).

Not all gold nuggets are created by microbes. Many are formed with cooling molten rock masses. The gold formed by microbes is derived from these primary gold sources in the ground. But it has been discovered that there are many nuggets which have a rich outer gold shell, and a lower purity gold in the center. In some cases these were nuggets formed by molten gold cooling, then later, microbes deposited a layer of higher purity gold on the top surfaces.
Because it takes some time for these microbes to ionize buried gold metal and put it in solution with the surrounding soil, it tells us that long time buried gold is different than fresh gold that was recently put in the ground. In addition, there are microbes that will attack the other metals alloyed with gold like silver, copper, platinum, etc. According to these studies, some soil is richer in these gold-eating microbes than other soil, so we can expect some soils to show a greater difference between fresh gold and long time buried gold.

In the case of the other microbes that convert the ions back into gold metal, we will find gold nuggets that have ions around them being converted into metallic gold to precipitate and grow the nugget. These new gold nuggets may have similar halo properties as gold that is decomposing. Check here to read this article:
http://crcleme.org.au/NewsEvents/News/Archive/2004/AUSIMMReith.pdf

There are over a million reports on microbes that convert gold to ions, and other microbes that convert gold ions to gold metal in the soil. These include much larger concentrations of gold ions, enough to precipitate gold nuggets. See these reports showing how microbes convert gold to ions, and other microbes that convert gold ions to gold metal in the soil:

Microbes manufacture gold nuggets: http://www.geotimes.org/sept06/NN_Microbes.html
Electron micrographs of microbes moving gold associated with Au(III) reduction:
http://aem.asm.org/cgi/reprint/67/7/3275.pdf
Microbes convert dissolved gold into solid metallic gold:
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1032376.htm
Report says scientists have ascertained the microbe’s process converts approximately 1% of exposed gold per year.
http://www.sandersresearch.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1171
http://www.ornl.gov/info/ornlreview/rev32_3/amazing.htm

You will find over a million reports on microbes that eat and ionize gold and other metals if you google for "gold microbe": http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=gold+microbe&btnG=Google+Search&aq= f&oq=&aqi=

There are several gold corroding chemical processes that have been documented in different locations depending on the soil conditions. In soils with high organic content, the microbe strains that dissolve gold are mostly microbes that produce cyanide and organic acids and complexes which react with metallic gold and bind it in the complex. This complex goes into solution in the soil, and moves with the subterranean moisture. Much different microbes that live only on metallic gold surfaces are able to digest the dissolved ions and precipitate them onto the nuggets where they live. Various chemical mechanisms have been documented, but the researchers are still working to unravel the mysteries of how these processes change in different soils. Apparently the ability of microbes to adapt to their environment is an important part of the puzzle.

Here are a few pages about cyanide producing microbes that dissolve gold:
Microscopic plants and fungi Produce cyanide which is thought to have dissolved ancient gold deposits in alluvial sands:
http://books.google.com/books?id=L8Be8rprGgkC&pg=PA495&lpg=PA495&dq=microb e+gold+cyanide&source=web&ots=E9FBKen7LJ&sig=jaLBL d1JAjV9BDA5NOEGPuoR_co#PPA494,M1

30 species of microorganisms including bacteria, yeasts, actinomycetes, fungi and algae were found to accumulate gold from laboratory solutions. This abstract also describes how Pseudomonas cells can be treated to absorb and desorb gold on demand. http://www.springerlink.com/content/u142554485g84k31/

Microbes moving gold in Southern Australia by various chemical methods:
http://crcleme.org.au/NewsEvents/News/Archive/2004/AUSIMMReith.pdf

I just finished reading over an hour of reports on mining exploration where they claim they have been finding gold ions that rise in a column to the surface soil above buried gold ores. According to Dr. Mark Fedikow, exploration geochemist and mineral deposits geologist, approximately 1000 sample sites have been analyzed using the mobile metal ion process (MMI) to locate gold and other mineral deposits since 1993 in over 30 countries. Dr. fedikow says the MMI technique of chemical and electronic analysis results in distinctive anomalies directly over mineralized zones. The MMI sampling has been successful for finding metal ions in the surface soil from Cu, Pb, Zn Cd, Ni, Co, Pd, Au, Ag, Cr, Nb, and Mg. The technology to locate these mineral deposits was developed by an Australian company who measures ions in the parts per billion and sub-parts per billion range in surface soil. The main testing laboratory for the MMI surveys is SGS Group.

See the SGS Group page that explains the movement of ions uward here: http://www.geochem.sgs.com/mmi__theory_geochem
See more web reports about sampling the soil for traces of metal from the vertical movement of metal ions here:
http://geea.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/5/3/201
http://www.diggerresources.com/hdrg.htm
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2005_Jan_7/ai_n8682755/
See more than 250,000 web pages showing reports of gold ions being measured in near-surface soil with MMI techniques here: http://www.google.com/search?q=mmi+gold&hl=en&start=10&sa=N

The point is, even though you don't see much gold corrosion, it is happening, and causing gold ions to move through the soil in a vertical column that can be detected by chemical surveys of the soil. Can it also be detected by an LRL?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

EXCELLENT!

[Qiaozhi]

The technology to locate these mineral deposits was developed by an Australian company who measures ions in the parts per billion and sub-parts per billion range in surface soil.

Therefore the conclusion is that a column of ions hovering in the air above a gold target is nonsense, and (even if any gold ions present were not bound by the soil) their numbers would be so few as to be undetectable at any distance, let alone several meters.

EXCELLENT!

Selective memory at work again?

"WHAT DOESN'T WORK, CANNOT BE MADE TO WORK"

[ivconic]

I didn't knew that, really. But i can accept that. Usuallly i am having conventional knowledge (laic you may say) on subjects out of my primary focus. So..this is very nice article you posted here, let's us to learn more details on this subject. Excellent post J Player! Thank you!

[Max]

Hi,
gold is not organic stuff... have no DNA... DNA is specific of organic tissue and material that's found in life-forms not metals.

Now... the concept is totally bogus referred to gold... and even if gold has metallic structure there isn't any DNA or DNA like behaviour.

The complex chemical exchanges that are performed at DNA molecules are not even comparable with chemical reactions that take place, under particular conditions, between gold and other (very few) elements.

The problem is Hung and LRL-pretenders bind gold with something particular behaviour that indeed doesn't exist... as doesn't exist e.g. a particular frequency for gold so it's employed in so called MFD-devices... that are actually just scams...

Most of LRL-pretenders belive in "mystical" properties of gold... that simply there aren't. If we talk about physics or chemistry there's a way to understand the facts about gold and its interactions with soil etc... and I belive there are compounds and ions of it around e.g. old time buried stuff... but problem is that when people talk of that DNA and other silly issues they are automatically pissed-off...

Like happened with Hung again...

I would say , instead, JP issues are truly interesting and based on real science... not pseudo-science!

Kind regards,
Max

[Qiaozhi]

I would say , instead, JP issues are truly interesting and based on real science... not pseudo-science!

Agreed ... and that information also demonstrates that so-called LRL devices, based on remote detection of gold ions floating in the air, are completely bogus.

If a device, such as Morgan's PD, is truly capable of long-range detection (and we are talking about meters here, not miles) then the basis of detection has nothing to do with gold ions.

The stuff that JP posted requires the taking of soil samples, that are later analyzed in the lab using extremely sensitive and expensive equipment, not an nicely polished wooden box from Brazil filled with old radios and beepers.

[Fred]

Dell,
Is that you in this video ? :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNQBO6gKMU8&feature=response_watch

Is that the way you have found to use your surplus of components, because you don´t know how to solder, and L-rods dont´t sell too well lately?

[Qiaozhi]

Dell,
Is that you in this video ? :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNQBO6gKMU8&feature=response_watch

Is that the way you have found to use your surplus of components, because you don´t know how to solder, and L-rods dont´t sell too well lately?

Now I'm speechless!

It's not Dell, but some other ...
And there are actually people who believe this crap. Well good luck to them and the wallet-miner in the video. They deserve each other.

Here's the guy's website -> http://www.idhhb.com/

Warning ... please don't injure yourself laughing.