Help for build one LRL...

[J_Player]

...Have you ever wondered exactly why these jinns would be protecting buried treasures in the first place"? I mean it's not like the treasure is going to do them any good. And certainly the original person who placed the treasure there is probably not coming back for it.

I have wondered about that exact question. A question that comes to mind is "why anybody would be protecting buried treasures in the first place? I mean it's not like the treasure is going to do them any good".

Think about it... gold, diamonds and other treasures don,t do anybody any good, do they?

The commercial value of gold and diamonds exists mainly for grinding tools and in the electronic connector industry. The real driving force behind the value of gold and diamonds is that people covet them, and are willing to pay a monetary price for them. Isn't this the same driving force that causes people to visit the Geotech forums? And the driving force that causes people to pay large prices, or even risk their lives to find these golden treasures?

Perhaps Michael has already given the answer to your question of why Jinns would want to protect these treasures in the first place. "...jinns like gold much more than human especially when it becomes ancient they love it more than their life. so after death of owner they never leave it and consider themselves as owner of treasure". Apparently the reason is because the Jinns covet old treasures more than people do. Maybe they have a form of economy that makes these ancient treasures valuable to them as well.

Best wishes,
J_P

[michael]

Thanks for that.

Given the circumstances you were in, the activity and the depth, I can obviously think of other reasons for what you experienced, other than jinns. I'll not iterate them at this time, but suffice it to say they would fall in line with Occam's Razor.

However, let's assume for the moment that your experience was the result of what the jinns put upon you.

Have you ever wondered exactly why these jinns would be protecting buried treasures in the first place? I mean it's not like the treasure is going to do them any good. And certainly the original person who placed the treasure there is probably not coming back for it.

Do you think the original owner of the treasure invoked these jinn entities to carry out these guard tasks, or do you suppose they merely float around in the ether picking buried treasures at random to guard?

about original owner it's obvious they don't exist anymore from more than hundreds or thousands years ago.
they don't live any more. but jinns are still over treasures. As they live for thousands years based on what I've read and heard by this time.
of course many many things are unknown about these mysterious creatures.
surely at the time of assigning jinns for treasures, main purpose had been guarding, now with what kind of their
reactions and how, unclear, they can react on any form and use any of their abilities.
we don't know exact, me like you, me as mush as you. but I really experienced a strange true thing.

[michael]

Also, i wonder why (if) it attacked only you and not you patners?

Oh, yes, good question, the question that had made my mind busy for a while.
answer: I'm the manager and head of my team/partners I set all things, tools, appointments, planning and so on to program. and in work I'm the most active member, at that time I was personally working with electrical Hammer at 8m depth. as we were told at first they target and alarm the head of team to suspend their work. when head is dissuaded then work will be stopped. if all persist on continuing, all will be affected one by one.

I told, they're strange, and any suggested question comes from this strangeness. they have their own rules and do it very neatly.

Maybe only he believed Jinns...!

Oh, it's better than not believing in any thing in this world, as I remember well you are an atheist don't believe in even god,… http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showt...t=12663&page=3 #51

no expectation to you believe in this, you at first need to fix your mind for essential thing; GOD. it's now more important for you. jinn is the last case, don't take it serious and never bother your mind for this, otherwise will never get to anywhere for god. .

[1843]

Oh, yes, good question, the question that had made my mind busy for a while.
answer: I'm the manager and head of my team/partners I set all things, tools, appointments, planning and so on to program. and in work I'm the most active member, at that time I was personally working with electrical Hammer at 8m depth. as we were told at first they target and alarm the head of team to suspend their work. when head is dissuaded then work will be stopped. if all persist on continuing, all will be affected one by one.

I told, they're strange, and any suggested question comes from this strangeness. they have their own rules and do it very neatly.

Oh, it's better than not believing in any thing in this world, as I remember well you are an atheist don't believe in even god,… http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showt...t=12663&page=3 #51

no expectation to you believe in this, you at first need to fix your mind for essential thing; GOD. it's now more important for you. jinn is the last case, don't take it serious and never bother your mind for this, otherwise will never get to anywhere for god. .

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...5&postcount=60
Have fun with your beliefs!

[michael]

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...5&postcount=60
Have fun with your beliefs!

Ok, good, so what? it's confirmative of what I put above.
thank you for that. I told you are atheist and this link confirms it more and is attributed to all people who believe in god you call them all "solid and frozen mind".

OK, let take a look on your brilliant mind :
you are disciple of this Idea: "seeing is believing" here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showt...t=12663&page=2 #46
so if you admit your own word, and still stand on your words you should never believe in much more invisible things e.g. any kind of waves in ordinary human science realm; radar, wireless, radio and ....... waves.
If your answer be :"I realize to these based on their effects, cos I see their work" ,
Ok, it’s what we tell about other invisible things: " we realize to god existence based on all of his creatures."
and also to jinns based on their effects, but with a great difference; god never can be or have been seen by no one whereas jinns can be seen by some rare especial persons.

when you conclude: "they don't exist cos I don't see" is from serious problem in the logic and analogy part of your mind that is closed and...... ,see? such mind not merit to work on.
now call yourself open-minded???? which is very funny.
of course I never like to get you or any guy like you believed these, no, it's useless for me.
If you believe it what will I catch? so better you remain in that level and enjoy of your brilliant mind abilities.

every time I put this info is only for guys who believes them but ignorant about their reactions in THing, as most people in Middle East believe in jinns and Vistac is one of them tried to put for him/her to be cautious
otherwise for atheists is as if blowing in a cage.

[Theseus]

Ok, good, so what? it's confirmative of what I put above.
thank you for that. I told you are atheist and this link confirms it more and is attributed to all people who believe in god you call them all "solid and frozen mind".

OK, let take a look on your brilliant mind :
you are disciple of this Idea: "seeing is believing" here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showt...t=12663&page=2 #46
so if you admit your own word, and still stand on your words you should never believe in much more invisible things e.g. any kind of waves in ordinary human science realm; radar, wireless, radio and ....... waves.
If your answer be :"I realize to these based on their effects, cos I see their work" ,
Ok, it’s what we tell about other invisible things: " we realize to god existence based on all of his creatures."
and also to jinns based on their effects, but with a great difference; god never can be or have been seen by no one whereas jinns can be seen by some rare especial persons.

when you conclude: "they don't exist cos I don't see" is from serious problem in the logic and analogy part of your mind that is closed and...... ,see? such mind not merit to work on.
now call yourself open-minded???? which is very funny.
of course I never like to get you or any guy like you believed these, no, it's useless for me.
If you believe it what will I catch? so better you remain in that level and enjoy of your brilliant mind abilities.

every time I put this info is only for guys who believes them but ignorant about their reactions in THing, as most people in Middle East believe in jinns and Vistac is one of them tried to put for him/her to be cautious
otherwise for atheists is as if blowing in a cage.

Please correct me if I got the wrong understanding from this particular posting of yours; but are you concluding that if a person does not believe in your Jinns, then by default they must also be of a closed-mind and be an atheist?

[Qiaozhi]

Please can I remind you all of the original purpose of the Remote Sensing Forum:

The term "remote sensing" is used to describe scientifically viable methods of detecting geophysical anomalies from a distance. It is also used to describe the less scientific method of "long-range locating", which is engulfed in controversy.

The discussions here have wandered far from the original purpose of the forum, and are rapidly degrading into a religious debate. Please refrain from personal attacks and try to get back to technical discussions.

[J_Player]

Please correct me if I got the wrong understanding from this particular posting of yours; but are you concluding that if a person does not believe in your Jinns, then by default they must also be of a closed-mind and be an atheist?

From what I read, michael has not made that conclusion.

Michael referenced a post above whereby 1843 described his discussions with people who have strong religious beliefs:

I've been discussed about religin, believes,... with those narrow-minded! poeple for a few years, but no one could change their mind... In my opinion they have an absolute solid and frozen mind!

After quoting 1843's concept of people who had religious beliefs being "frozen minded", he then went on to examine 1843's supposed preference for the concept that "seeing is believing". Michael's argument is that some people must "see before they will believe", or else that will refuse to believe. Michael suggests people who must see before they will believe may have a hard time believing that invisible things could exist. Not only Jinns, or dieties, but other things such as electricity, magnetism, EM waves, etc.

His point is that most scientifically educated people believe in the invisible energies used from electricity, magnetism, EM waves because they can see the secondary effects of these forms of energy which are visible, even when they can't see the energy itself. His implication is that 1843 is not among those who will be satisfied to believe after only seeing the secondary effects of things that are invisible, whether it is some form of energy, a diety, or a Jinn.

Any interperetation that "if a person does not believe in your Jinns, then by default they must also be of a closed-mind and be an atheist" is simply an inference that a reader may erroneously draw after reading what michael wrote.

Best wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

Please can I remind you all of the original purpose of the Remote Sensing Forum:

The term "remote sensing" is used to describe scientifically viable methods of detecting geophysical anomalies from a distance. It is also used to describe the less scientific method of "long-range locating", which is engulfed in controversy.

The discussions here have wandered far from the original purpose of the forum, and are rapidly degrading into a religious debate. Please refrain from personal attacks and try to get back to technical discussions.

They have?
But I thought you were not able to see what is written in the forum when the subject of Jinns is part of the post:

Sorry ... cannot hear you.
My Jinn filter is working at full capacity.

Actually, I don't see any attacks on people here. just a questioning of beliefs, one of which happens to be religious. The real discussion relates to precautions that may be warranted when recovering deep treasures in the Middle East.

There is no religious debate here. The information that Vistac2000 asked for has been given, and the remaining discussion is only about details, such as the identity of the person who started the forum thread, and a precaution that one poster feels is important. The reference of religion is not about the theology or dogma of any particular religion, in fact it is not about religion at all. It is a discussion about the ontology and epistemology of the sciences being put forward in order to reason with people who are challenging the posted experiences.

The question is whether this is a good subject to include in a remote sensing forum?
I think yes. Especially when a member has been misquoted by another in order to make his challenges look more convincing. And isn't this what epistemology is all about anyway? Determining the nature of knowledge, and what we should accept or not accept? My opinion is we should start with accurate information, rather than re-writing what others say they have observed, concluded, etc. to mean something different.

I have seen entire threads in this remote sensing forum dedicated only to the football games. So what is wrong with looking a little closer into what some members consider a legitimate concern for treasure hunters who requested a long range locator plan?

Apparently some people cannot tolerate reading posts that describe experiences of things that are not seen by most people, and the option to turn on their filters and play "ostrich" became a suitable solution. The head buried in the sand is good insulation to prevent reading or answering any unwanted questions in a forum thread.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

Please can I remind you all of the original purpose of the Remote Sensing Forum:

The term "remote sensing" is used to describe scientifically viable methods of detecting geophysical anomalies from a distance. It is also used to describe the less scientific method of "long-range locating", which is engulfed in controversy.

The discussions here have wandered far from the original purpose of the forum, and are rapidly degrading into a religious debate. Please refrain from personal attacks and try to get back to technical discussions.

I see your point, and I won't be making any additional comments to this, or related threads.

My initial knee-jerk reaction was in response to what appeared to be a conclusion or axiom stating that if I (or others) couldn't believe in Jinns then we must be closed-minded and also an atheist. Perhaps my interpretation of the comment was in error, but certainly the inferences were there - I didn't make them up.

In either case, I'm considering the topic closed.

[Qiaozhi]

There is no religious debate here.

... and let's keep it that way.

[1843]

I respect the Qiaozhi's note; so I don't argue anymore.
Michael, you can open a new thread regarding Jinns!

[michael]

Please correct me if I got the wrong understanding from this particular posting of yours; but are you concluding that if a person does not believe in your Jinns, then by default they must also be of a closed-mind and be an atheist?

absolutely no, J-Player gave the best answer. I referred to 1843 opinions that based on his clear statements, he is a right instance of atheist cos he believes in nothing; god,...
man, be a little more careful of your misquotations.
meanwhile they are not my jinns, they're god jinns/creatures.

Please can I remind you all of the original purpose of the Remote Sensing Forum:
The term "remote sensing" is used to describe scientifically viable methods of detecting geophysical anomalies from a distance. It is also used to describe the less scientific method of "long-range locating", which is engulfed in controversy.

The discussions here have wandered far from the original purpose of the forum, and are rapidly degrading into a religious debate. Please refrain from personal attacks and try to get back to technical discussions.

this was not religious debate, at all. and as an aside from first what I see in this thread is less for technical discussions.
Meantime what I said anyway is concerned to THing and is not less important than a detector for who works in Middle East. this is like I prevent a THer of going to a especial place so that there are a plenty of hyenas or poisonous snakes, some body call it religious debate. it's an ordinary precaution concern to THing.
The best and complete answers been given by J-Player which I couldn't induct my comments such appropriate. Thank you man.

Michael, you can open a new thread regarding Jinns!

Yes sir, I was waiting for your orders.

I never had decision to elongate discussions about this matter to this point, I just wanted to warn a guy with a post, some friends with their questions/curiosity and some like you with ridiculing ,pushed me to put more posts. Any independent person with reading the posts will realize my purpose was honesty pure not to show off.

anyway I see no necessary not to answer to questioner about this matter here or anywhere else. I will answer him honesty to god based on what I've experienced personally not dream or fancy.

[Qiaozhi]

...this was not religious debate, at all. and as an aside from first what I see in this thread is less for technical discussions.
Meantime what I said anyway is concerned to THing and is not less important than a detector for who works in Middle East. this is like I prevent a THer of going to a especial place so that there are a plenty of hyenas or poisonous snakes, some body call it religious debate. it's an ordinary precaution concern to THing.

On the subject of misquoting:

What I said was: "The discussions here have wandered far from the original purpose of the forum, and are rapidly degrading into a religious debate. Please refrain from personal attacks and try to get back to technical discussions.

I did not say that it had actually become a religious debate, but I can see it heading that way, with some members calling others atheists or whatever. You can continue discussing Jinns (if you must) but I have already stated my own position concerning this nonsense. If anyone else has a strong opinion, I suggest that you do the same ... state your case and move on.

[Theseus]

man, be a little more careful of your misquotations.

I didn't say it was a direct quote; that's why I calmly asked you in the first place if I misunderstood your meaning. My words were......

Please correct me if I got the wrong understanding from this particular posting of yours....