The Aurificusian Hypothesis

[J_Player]

Surely you jest.

[Max]

My non-technical-hypothetical-possible explanation :
I´t absorbtion of natural radiated energy by the halo effect, from long wave to X-ray wavelenght.
So with a AM radio, fm , wideband microwave or IR light you will detect the same effect.for some reason the IR light must be modulated, just has the PD in the khz range needed to be.
Of course it could also be random beeping wrongly interpreted by human brain.But the halo effect is there...
I believe Esteban don´t know more about the effect itself, so he explains how to build it but no more.

so your IR

Hmmmmm.... Esteban tells just what he wanna you read... not the whole stuff... nor a complete design/schematic... at the end... nothing you can really use to test and repeat what he said...wrote...claimed.

Is up to you... you make some IR LRL crap... (remember to add hot melt glue) and it doesn't work... then you start asking Esteban again... and the cycle repeats... forever.

In this way you'll never know if your LRL doesn't work cause cannot (simply) work... or just cause you made it ... and failed at implementation.

If implementation details are "secret" nor you have any idea of what you're supposed to do... e.g. how the LRL is supposed to work... not your theory but HIS theory...there's no way for you to know what's wrong at your LRL implementation.

Happened with PD, will happen again with other crazy projects cause you need a complete design or , at least, know what are you doing to have some success.

At PD the lack of informations makes you, as an example, don't replicate the ferrite circuit at first... on PCB!

But seems they claim PD needs ferrite circuit... then you add a board for it...

but , cause you don't know what to do with it e.g. how to tune, that's changed nothing... and PD clone doesn't work.

Supposing LRLs work (and I don't belive that) trying to replicate one this way it's like you ask some swordsmith of year 1200 a.C. to replicate a boeing 747 ... just giving hints and making long jokes...I'm sure it will not fly!

You must know what you're doing... or have , at least, a complete project you can replicate without knowing about the supposed "principle of operation".

All other attempts out of the 2 alternative scenarios of above will simply fail... and we already know.

If we suppose (I don't) that Morgan's PD is a perfect replica of Alonso one... and that works... it's possible just cause he had on hands the original one to copy/clone... then take measures and everything... things that we haven't.

Of course, Esteban will say that we have everything, all informations but failed at experiments... but it's just plain stupid joke... he knows we haven't all details and play this game from many years now!

Kind regards,
Max

[Aurificus]

SIGNAL GENERATION FROM BURIED METAL OBJECT

YES & NO
Aurificus

The following mechanism that may enable (some) buried metal objects to
produce an electromagnetic signal that can be detected passively.

Sunlight striking the earth warms the ground

There is a gradient of heat (energy) from surface to depth (ignore geothermal)

Heat transfer is in the direction from hottest to coolest

The energy transfer through the soil is due to molecular vibration (phonons) and is relatively slow,

Thermal conductivity for soils around 1 - 2 W/(m.K)

For our preferred target metals: Gold 318 W/(m.K) Silver 429 W/(m.K)
Copper 380 W/(m.K)

Metals transfer heat by movement of free electrons, therefore rapid heat transfer.

Metal in the soil will transfer heat from top of object to bottom faster than surrounding soil.

Metal is an excellent electrical conductor .

Soil is a poor electrical conductor, but not an insulator.

Maximum thermal transfer will occur near top of target (from soil to target)

As target warms, electrons will migrate to bottom of object.

Accumulation of electrons at bottom will repel electrons in soil, leaving “holes”

The close contact of the metal object to the soil is analogous to a “Schottky” barrier.

Once the “forward voltage” potential is achieved the electrons will cross the junction and fill the holes.

Current flow (metal to semiconductor) is very fast and high.

And it will stop very quickly as it has next to nowhere else to go.

As the electrons are returning to a lower state they must release their energy.

This will manifest as a burst of electromagnetic radiation.

The metal target will also have lost its stored energy (ie “cooled)

Enhanced energy transfer from soil at top (phonons & free electrons) to cool target

Cycle repeats,,,,,,,Cool

Aurificus

[J_Player]

That pretty much proves that a buried coin produces an EM signal by the mechanism of heat conduction.
No need to ask further questions here. Simply build your passive circuit to detect the effects of the gradient you discovered.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

The following mechanism that may enable (some) buried metal objects to
produce an electromagnetic signal that can be detected passively.

Sunlight striking the earth warms the ground

There is a gradient of heat (energy) from surface to depth (ignore geothermal)

Heat transfer is in the direction from hottest to coolest

The energy transfer through the soil is due to molecular vibration (phonons) and is relatively slow,

Thermal conductivity for soils around 1 - 2 W/(m.K)

For our preferred target metals: Gold 318 W/(m.K) Silver 429 W/(m.K)
Copper 380 W/(m.K)

Metals transfer heat by movement of free electrons, therefore rapid heat transfer.

Metal in the soil will transfer heat from top of object to bottom faster than surrounding soil.

Metal is an excellent electrical conductor .

Soil is a poor electrical conductor, but not an insulator.

Maximum thermal transfer will occur near top of target (from soil to target)

As target warms, electrons will migrate to bottom of object.

Accumulation of electrons at bottom will repel electrons in soil, leaving “holes”

The close contact of the metal object to the soil is analogous to a “Schottky” barrier.

Once the “forward voltage” potential is achieved the electrons will cross the junction and fill the holes.

Current flow (metal to semiconductor) is very fast and high.

And it will stop very quickly as it has next to nowhere else to go.

As the electrons are returning to a lower state they must release their energy.

This will manifest as a burst of electromagnetic radiation.

The metal target will also have lost its stored energy (ie “cooled)

Enhanced energy transfer from soil at top (phonons & free electrons) to cool target

Cycle repeats,,,,,,,Cool

Aurificus

Hi,
still the thermal gradient here...

Ok... but Seebeck's effect you describe works good with metallic junctions... more than between a metal and soil.

This is first problem.

Second problem is that you're talking about large (?) current...
What ? Seebeck effect between metals generates very small currents...and voltages.
As an example common themocouple alloys gives you a maximum of around 70uV/°K = 70uV/°C

So... if gradient is just 1°C you get maximum 70uV.
In the metal-soil interface you'll maybe get a voltage of some uV/°C at maximum.

About current... they are known to be really small... and usually thermocouple devices need proper preamplifier design with hi-impedance to get useful readings.

Indeed the power you could get from a single junction is really small... as another example: old radioactive generators used many thousands of them both for increasing voltage (in series) and for increase output current (parallel of them).
Such systems are widely inefficient... think that you need maybe 2KW thermal power (e.g. Plutonium-238 bars) to get maybe 100W electrical , like used in old spacecrafts (and also today's made are not much different about that). We are talking of something 5-10% power efficiency... you put in 2000 and get 100 at output!

About EM pulse... (?)
the thermal gradient you talk is there while things are going on... the heath moves from hot to cold and this will create small current... with no sharp cutoff... so not really an EM pulse... but maybe a small current which vary as function of time... then a magnetic field is surely present but of which amplitude ?

Maybe can e.g. deflect the needle of a compass if strong enough (maybe) but sure is not an EM pulse, and of course we are talking of very weak magnetic field.

Kind regards,
Max

[Aurificus]

Hi,
still the thermal gradient here...

About EM pulse... (?)
the thermal gradient you talk is there while things are going on... the heath moves from hot to cold and this will create small current... with no sharp cutoff... so not really an EM pulse... but maybe a small current which vary as function of time... then a magnetic field is surely present but of which amplitude ?

Kind regards,
Max

So, the Mechanism is Legitimate, Just a question of Magnitude?

I will Work(J) on the Numbers & report back.
May take some time & Brain Power(J/sec)

Aurificus

[Theseus]

So, the Mechanism is Legitimate, Just a question of Magnitude?

I will Work(J) on the Numbers & report back.
May take some time & Brain Power(J/sec)

Aurificus

Is there any chance this concept could wipe out metal detector sales?

[J_Player]

Is there any chance this concept could wipe out metal detector sales?

Sure...

Take note: Aurificus will be spending a lot of time running numbers to see how to make the concept work, after erroneously concluding the mechanism is legitimate, and only needs calculations to estimate the magnitude. He failed to grasp that people have been telling him the magnitude of signal to noise ratio removes the legitimacy from this method. But even if the energy supplied to the surface of the earth by the sun was completely homogeneous, the calculations already show that there is way too little heat conduction through the soil to heat a buried coin enough to maintain a differential thermal gradient, much less produce a voltage, especially when a second metal is not present to cause the peltier-effect induced voltage he is relying on for this concept to work.

Answer to Theseus question:
The chance that this concept courld wipe out metal detector sales is about the same as the chance that people will stop buying tickets to heavy metal concerts because of the annoying sound of a pin that might accidentally fall and crash against the concert stage floor.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

Sure...

Take note: Aurificus will be spending a lot of time running numbers to see how to make the concept work, after erroneously concluding the mechanism is legitimate, and only needs calculations to estimate the magnitude. He failed to grasp that people have been telling him the magnitude of signal to noise ratio removes the legitimacy from this method. But even if the energy supplied to the surface of the earth by the sun was completely homogeneous, the calculations already show that there is way too little heat conduction through the soil to heat a buried coin enough to maintain a differential thermal gradient, much less produce a voltage, especially when a second metal is not present to cause the peltier-effect induced voltage he is relying on for this concept to work.

Answer to Theseus question:
The chance that this concept courld wipe out metal detector sales is about the same as the chance that people will stop buying tickets to heavy metal concerts because of the annoying sound of a pin that might accidentally fall and crash against the concert stage floor.

Best wishes,
J_P

Ummmmm..... that's more or less my opinion too.

I thought maybe it was only me that saw; "He failed to grasp that people have been telling him the magnitude of signal to noise ratio removes the legitimacy from this method."

[Max]

So, the Mechanism is Legitimate, Just a question of Magnitude?

I will Work(J) on the Numbers & report back.
May take some time & Brain Power(J/sec)

Aurificus

Hi,
"So, the Mechanism is Legitimate, Just a question of Magnitude?"

Hmmmmmm ... maybe you misunderstud...

the mechanism is true cause the Seebeck effect is real and measurable also... but this doesn't mean that it's "legitimate" as LRL principle of operation of claimed working passive devices.

The magnitude is small, no dubt about... just if someone wanna quantify it several factors must be taken into account including e.g. conductivity of soil, soil composition, if there's an oxide layer it's e.g. porosity and density and influence on charge exchange/flow, conductivity of matrix, level of mean humidity etc etc...

A simplified model I think is possible to obtain with realistic results for voltage generated and then also current flow due to the thermal gradient.

As an example then suppose that we have say 1uA/°K and 20°K thermal gradient at coin/soil interface so... 20uA current when process starts... the B-field could be (using approximation of single turn of current with radius equals to coin's diameter of 23mm)...


B= (2*pi*b^2*I)/(c*(z^2+b^2))^(3/2)


b is radius of turn = 23mm = 0.023m
pi = 3.1416
I=20uA = 0.00002A
c=speed of light 300,000,000m/s
z= 10meters (distance on z axis from the coin... turn of current)

So... let's go for it...

B=(0.0000000664)/(30000158700)^(3/2) = (about) 1.28*10^-23 Tesla

or... to put it simple... 12.9 yoctoTesla!

So at 10meters from the coin... supposing the things of above... just this small value...

The intensity drops as power of 3 with distance... so it's easy understand why so slight magnetic field is absolutely undetectable using actual technology.

Now consider that you have something 30-50microTesla as Earth magnetic field...

1.29*10^-24/30*10^-6 = 4.3*10^-20

You need something that's capable to look at 1/4.3*10^-20 part of your background noise... it's like looking for 1 volt difference when you have a noise of 2.32*10^19 volts!

If we consider SNR... as SNR=(Asignal/Anoise)^2 we have (4.3*10-20)^2 = 1.8949*10^-39

and in decibels... SNRdB= -387.33

I think no passive device could be made (at present years) to detect so small variations... and with that dramatic SNR... a huge negative one!

Impossible.

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

SNRdB= -387.33

What?
Only -387.33 dB?
Maybe it would go lower if an earthworm who was near the surface burrowed down and helped to add some thermal gradient.

Hmmm... but wouldn't that just be more noise?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Aurificus]

or... to put it simple... 12.9 yoctoTesla!

Kind regards,

Max

Thanks, for mentioning Tesla, IT'S HIS BIRTHDAY!!

I agree, an operating voltage derived from the Seebeck coeff. is about 1 million times to small to produce a measurable signal.

So, I won't use it.

[Fred]

So, I won't use it.

You won´t use it where ?

[Qiaozhi]

Thanks, for mentioning Tesla, IT'S HIS BIRTHDAY

Have you seen today's Google image?

[Qiaozhi]

... and, continuing the subject of Tesla, here's an interesting article ->

http://atlasobscura.com/places/electrum