mineoro fg/90

[Esteban]

I'm not sure what you're saying., but basically this forum is left to fend for itself, unless anyone raises an objection by reporting inflammatory posts. If it was closely monitored then admin would have a full-time job deleting posts and banning users.

By the way, Carl has not been away from the forum or not caring about it. The decision to add a second admin person was taken after the demise of Geotech during the Christmas period, when hackers managed to bring the site down for several weeks. Since then we have added further safeguards to prevent spamming and other unwanted nuisances. You may have noticed the improvement in the sevice. Now we just need the Remote Sensing Forum members to do their bit and quit posting inflammatory remarks. This means everyone.

You know that I try to be serious, but can't do nothing causes disturbances. Filter now is enable. I understand that always the advice is against LRL experimenters/promoters, etc. But maybe you're part of the "skeptical club", and maybe this is the "reason" that you are not in the middle point. In understand. But remember: I'm not the person who ever start disturbing others.

[J_Player]

Inflammatory ???

And who say what's inflammatory and what's not ??? Who will enstablish rules about ???

I mean... it's really personal point of view... and what's for me humor can be inflammatory for someone else...

Also, what's an unverified and unbelivable claim can be good and safe for those who belive in that... and VERY INFLAMMATORY to people that need proofs and facts like me.

Now... what's more inflammatory... that I say sometimes that someone plays with PaloAlto... and jokes like that (that are obviously jokes and don't pretend to be truth, of course) or that someone that say gold has DNA , or that a coin can be detected with an homemade pile of junk at 70meters ???

Inflammatory... we are not talking of gasoline and napalm here (or maybe yes?) but of something that become what people feel about.

So if I can stop any time with my stupid jokes can them stop polluting here with wild claims and impossibile ship-wrecks detection at 1mile under seawater done with a well known scam device ???

Victimism! just post a serious schematic, design, idea and physics theory and I will leave any joke for good... otherwise don't make claims here and pretend don't be challenged, even wildly and with jokes (why not ?), by me (and others).

Kind regards,
Max

There is one class of posts that nobody wants to read....
Not skeptics, not LRL proponents, and not casual visitors who come to read the forum.

This is the class of posts that makes no reference whatsoever to anything technical that anyone posted, and no reference to the topic of the thread, and is directed against a single other person using vulgar or derogatory language and images. This class of post carries no information of any value whatsoever, and is of no interest to anyone except the people who are sending these messages. The net result is these posts clog up the forum with a bunch of stupid stuff and make it hard for readers to find the technical information they are looking for.

We can safely eliminate this class of post without requiring any judgments to determine whether they are near the borderline of needing to be removed or not. I am sure nobody will miss these posts. And removing them will clear the forum for easier reading without having to hunt through pages of nothing to find something worth reading.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

Inflammatory ???

And who say what's inflammatory and what's not ??? Who will enstablish rules about ???

I mean... it's really personal point of view... and what's for me humor can be inflammatory for someone else...

Also, what's an unverified and unbelivable claim can be good and safe for those who belive in that... and VERY INFLAMMATORY to people that need proofs and facts like me.

Now... what's more inflammatory... that I say sometimes that someone plays with PaloAlto... and jokes like that (that are obviously jokes and don't pretend to be truth, of course) or that someone that say gold has DNA , or that a coin can be detected with an homemade pile of junk at 70meters ???

Inflammatory... we are not talking of gasoline and napalm here (or maybe yes?) but of something that become what people feel about.

So if I can stop any time with my stupid jokes can them stop polluting here with wild claims and impossibile ship-wrecks detection at 1mile under seawater done with a well known scam device ???

Victimism! just post a serious schematic, design, idea and physics theory and I will leave any joke for good... otherwise don't make claims here and pretend don't be challenged, even wildly and with jokes (why not ?), by me (and others).

Kind regards,
Max

I agree that it's very difficult to define the term "inflammatory", as everyone's interpretation may be different. Claims of detecting a ship-wreck 1 mile underwater, using some unknown pseudoscience, could also be considered a joke. However, there has been a flood of very silly jokes recently that many are finding quite tedious to read, resulting in members adding others to their ignore list. This is not very productive, and everyone needs to just use some commonsense when posting, and try to be more politically correct. Both Carl or I have better things to do than closely police this forum.

On the other hand the meeting between Geo and Morgan was a great event inspired by the Geotech Remote Sensing Forum. Whether you like or dislike what you saw in the videos is another story, but this is the sort of collaboration that should be going on here. I'm sure that skeptics and LRL believers will continue to agree to disagree for many years to come. But let's do it politely.

[Qiaozhi]

You know that I try to be serious, but can't do nothing causes disturbances. Filter now is enable. I understand that always the advice is against LRL experimenters/promoters, etc. But maybe you're part of the "skeptical club", and maybe this is the "reason" that you are not in the middle point. In understand. But remember: I'm not the person who ever start disturbing others.

I totally agree, and I hope you will get a chance to be serious from now on without disturbances. Personally I enjoy seeing the results of your experiments. I may not agree with the results, but I have never joked about them.

Yes - I am a skeptic, but if I was an LRL believer I would not be in the middle point either.

[Max]

I agree that it's very difficult to define the term "inflammatory", as everyone's interpretation may be different. Claims of detecting a ship-wreck 1 mile underwater, using some unknown pseudoscience, could also be considered a joke. However, there has been a flood of very silly jokes recently that many are finding quite tedious to read, resulting in members adding others to their ignore list. This is not very productive, and everyone needs to just use some commonsense when posting, and try to be more politically correct. Both Carl or I have better things to do than closely police this forum.

On the other hand the meeting between Geo and Morgan was a great event inspired by the Geotech Remote Sensing Forum. Whether you like or dislike what you saw in the videos is another story, but this is the sort of collaboration that should be going on here. I'm sure that skeptics and LRL believers will continue to agree to disagree for many years to come. But let's do it politely.

The videos ??? The jokes were not about the videos!

But anyway... lets be more "politically correct"... why not ?

But about ignore lists... it's all fake... they play victimism each time things become harder...

Yes jokes, of course, but what is that ?

Is not a joke ?

And is it politically correct ?

Just someone that read could these posts could also belive it's truth and buy then one of that fine Mineoro's devices...

Why not... let be politically correct!

Let people read here and spend thousand dollars for their fools gold...

Then usefulness of this forum will be sacrificed to this "politically correct" idea... why not ?

I'll do that way.

Kind regards,
Max

[Qiaozhi]

Just someone that read could these posts could also belive it's truth and buy then one of that fine Mineoro's devices...

Why not... let be politically correct!

Let people read here and spend thousand dollars for their fools gold...

Then usefulness of this forum will be sacrificed to this "politically correct" idea... why not ?

I'll do that way.

Kind regards,
Max

Hi Max,

I'm not saying that you cannot disagree with the LRL claims. Of course you can do that. In fact, as a skeptic, it is your duty to assist the technically challenged. I wouldn't expect anything else...

[hung]

It's not often that I agree with Hung, but in this case he has a point.

Let's have a reminder of the forum rules:

The term "remote sensing" is used to describe scientifically viable methods of detecting geophysical anomalies from a distance. It is also used to describe the less scientific method of "long-range locating", which is engulfed in controversy.

Note the sentence referring to "long-range locating". If you make outlandish claims then you must expect to be challenged. There is no need to get upset. Just state your case and move on.



This forum is for the open discussion of either method. Because LRL-oriented forums can quickly degrade into personal conflicts, this forum will be strictly controlled. Rules are still simple:

• You must be a registered user to post here. Guests may read.
• Be polite. Name calling will get you banned quickly.
• Be factual. If you make an extraordinary claim, be prepared to get challenged.

In general, try not to take differences of opinions personally.

Recently this Remote Sensing Forum has degraded into a circus. In general we do not like to moderate this forum closely, although I have occasionally removed certain attachments.

Now here's the most important part:

Postings considered to be inflammatory can be reported to Admin by clicking the little red triangle icon at the top of each post. Please use this only when absolutely necessary... I would like to keep this forum as open as possible, and do not care to mediate every conversation.

... and nobody has reported a single post during the recent circus! Therefore the assumption is that everyone is happy with the current postings?

Please can I ask everyone to cool it regarding the jokes, etc., and let's try to focus on the technical aspects of remote sensing and LRLs, whatever you consider them to be.

Thanks again to Hung for pointing out the degradation in quality of recent posts.

I appreciate your good sense of intervention as current adminstrator of this forum and I agree that it's very hard to keep an eye all the time on what happens here in terms of flaming and BS floating around, but you also have to admit that before your 'current job' you also were included in the package of skepthics who chose to ridicularize many of the LRL proponents claims, ideas and opinions. Specially my own.
Then things got out of hand and people such as Max and Jplayer started their picture galleries and cartoons regalia with Max now taking this to unaceptable limits.


I don't know about the other LRL proponents here, but I watch this forum to trade ideas about LRLs, techiniques involved and occasionally to help any Mineoro user here who happens to hang around.
I never had the intention to discuss my latest findings, prove any scientific discovery which is against 'officially released' science, or post any kind of working LRL schematics here.


Now let's get real. This will never happen among LRL proponents here. For the skepthics who in their wildest dreams thought they would come here facing someday a complete schematic of these devices, loose your hope. Don't be silly. The LRL proponents who develop their projects, such as Esteban and a few others, will never be that naive to publish their work in an open and public forum.
I think you people know the obvious reasons for that, but I think it's worth mention the reasons for those who are blinded by make believing...


They would never do it, because anyone can steal their project, ideas, concepts and in case they have idustrial capability, start to make money from it in a matter of seconds.


So, wake up and face reality.
But that does not justify the attacks, jokes and ridicule they are exposed in public. Treat them with respect and when you don't swallow their claims or ideas, simply say you don't agree. Respect they reserve themselves to omit details or keep it secret. Understand they cannot divulge it.


Start to act as 3 to 4 people I'm aware in this forum who never said a word against anything or anybody, did their homework and now have their LRLs working.


If the skepthics keep the jokes and the idiotic attitudes, I'm sure many here will leave this forum for a better option.

[Qiaozhi]

I appreciate your good sense of intervention as current adminstrator of this forum and I agree that it's very hard to keep an eye all the time on what happens here in terms of flaming and BS floating around, but you also have to admit that before your 'current job' you also were included in the package of skepthics who chose to ridicularize many of the LRL proponents claims, ideas and opinions. Specially my own.
Then things got out of hand and people such as Max and Jplayer started their picture galleries and cartoons regalia with Max now taking this to unaceptable limits.

OK - let's leave it there. Perhaps we can all agree to move on, even if skeptics and LRL proponents will continue to agree to disagree.

I'm sure if we all met in a bar somewhere we would get on just fine, even after a few beers.

[WM6]

Hmmmmm..... no circus... no humor... then just technical ???

ok lets back to technical...

I'll be glad to see a complete schematic or tuning instruction set by you...

If will happen I mean... I don't hold breath for it...

I asked you a number of times about technical stuff regarding LRLs... never get a complete answer ! My fault ??? My bad attitude ???

You guys made the mess each time posts that you can e.g. detect a coin at 2 or 70 meters... doesn't matter...just out of "normal" or "human" md ranges...and I added just humor and jokes... nothing more.

Each time someone challenge you and that's not just you Esteban but all LRL belivers and pretenders you start this victimism here...

Old story...

Kind regards,
Max

Agree 100%. Here, I believe, nobody is against undiscovered science. In contrary. But must be science not something between religion, fairy tale, David Copperfieldism and fraudism (continued more or less disguised advertising mineoro and others fraudulent boxes).

Our kidding's are less for our enjoyment, and not in order to defend our skepticism, but primarily to protect the naive members here against propaganda tricks which ultimate goal is selling worthless goods by rude prices.

If the background would not be commercial but seriously deal with an undiscovered science, it has long away to seen here working schematic of these terrible LRL devices, but we have not and obvious will not too. We saw only a technical comics. Why, then, would not laugh?

So: Be factual. If you make an extraordinary claim, be prepared to get challenged.

And they are challenged nothing else.

They're not victims at all.

Victims are naive buyers of of expensive LRL crap.

As always.

Regretfully.

I can only repeat:

There is only one answer to all LRL believers, LRL promoters, LRL sellers, LRL producers and their Lawyers: come to my "regio" (testing field) and repeat such dummy tricks. I am willing to buy 20 gr gold medal with the inscription "LRL WINNER", and buried only 5 cm deep in soil, and if you manage to find it with any of yours LRL crappy toys, medal is yours. That medal is really buried at the end we prove by ordinary Chinese metal detector. And this is not all, I will add my written apology and promise to promote LRL in future.

So stop by blah blah loading here and prepare instead yourself on the real controlled test.

[Qiaozhi]

Our kidding's are less for our enjoyment, and not in order to defend our skepticism, but primarily to protect the naive members here against propaganda tricks which ultimate goal is selling worthless goods by rude prices.

If you are referring to your spoof LRL posting, then please don't misunderstand me. This was not one of the jokes in question. In fact, you may remember that I also posted a spoof pseudo-scientific description of the Ranger Tell Examiner some years ago, and it actually got posted on their website as as an excellent description of the underlying "science". How naive!

To most people here your posting was obviously a spoof, and quite funny. LRL proponents could also see that, and could simply choose to ignore it. Unfortunately there were some members here who did believe it to be real. This was due to English not being their first language, or maybe not good enough to see that it was "tongue-in-cheek". So sometimes you have be careful.

Some LRL manufacturers, who post here, often get a hard ride, but I'm sure they have thick skins and get the same treatment elsewhere as well. It comes with the territory. However, the amateur experimentors should be given more leeway, and allowed to describe their experiments without constant barracking.

Hope you understand my concern.

[WM6]

Hope you understand my concern.

I think you are doing what administrator have to do.

It must be some clarification from time to time.

I hope we all are open minded with different knowledge and experience. This is what we are here. To exchange our knowledge and experience. But there is a line that delineating the technical knowledge from religion. It is hard to exchange religion beliefs and experience between believers and technical skeptics if believers provide only religion in different form.

Of course religion per se is not problem, this is a private matter, until it not try to sell itself costly. When this happens, they offer itself in the comment. Here we are.

[Morgan]

LRL distances

The videos ??? The jokes were not about the videos!

But anyway... lets be more "politically correct"... why not ?

But about ignore lists... it's all fake... they play victimism each time things become harder...

Yes jokes, of course, but what is that ?

Is not a joke ?

And is it politically correct ?

Just someone that read could these posts could also belive it's truth and buy then one of that fine Mineoro's devices...

Why not... let be politically correct!

Let people read here and spend thousand dollars for their fools gold...

Then usefulness of this forum will be sacrificed to this "politically correct" idea... why not ?

I'll do that way.

Kind regards,
Max

Hi Max

Its realy amazing that Esteban can detect one single coin at 70m distance. But with Alonso Pistoldetector this distances are not possible.
Unfortunatly the LRL videos are not convincent specialy for the skeptics,anyway i insist to tell you and Forum that PD works and me or Geo not use any kind of fake sistem to deceive and make people here believe in something that is impossible.

Regards

[Morgan]

Of course

OK - let's leave it there. Perhaps we can all agree to move on, even if skeptics and LRL proponents will continue to agree to disagree.

I'm sure if we all met in a bar somewhere we would get on just fine, even after a few beers.

Yes,you are rigth,just remember some time ago when we start building the Pistoldetektor,and Geo cant put it to work as LRL,he also said PD is a fraud,but you can see now he as diferent opinion,he travel just to see the truth and with his recent and sucessful experience with PD, HE BELIEVES !!! after all we become good friends.

[Fred]

It doens´t mean sckeptics cannot be convinced

[Esteban]

Agree 100%. Here, I believe, nobody is against undiscovered science. In contrary. But must be science not something between religion, fairy tale, David Copperfieldism and fraudism (continued more or less disguised advertising mineoro and others fraudulent boxes).

Our kidding's are less for our enjoyment, and not in order to defend our skepticism, but primarily to protect the naive members here against propaganda tricks which ultimate goal is selling worthless goods by rude prices.

If the background would not be commercial but seriously deal with an undiscovered science, it has long away to seen here working schematic of these terrible LRL devices, but we have not and obvious will not too. We saw only a technical comics. Why, then, would not laugh?

So: Be factual. If you make an extraordinary claim, be prepared to get challenged.

And they are challenged nothing else.

They're not victims at all.

Victims are naive buyers of of expensive LRL crap.

As always.

Regretfully.

I can only repeat:

There is only one answer to all LRL believers, LRL promoters, LRL sellers, LRL producers and their Lawyers: come to my "regio" (testing field) and repeat such dummy tricks. I am willing to buy 20 gr gold medal with the inscription "LRL WINNER", and buried only 5 cm deep in soil, and if you manage to find it with any of yours LRL crappy toys, medal is yours. That medal is really buried at the end we prove by ordinary Chinese metal detector. And this is not all, I will add my written apology and promise to promote LRL in future.

So stop by blah blah loading here and prepare instead yourself on the real controlled test.

Do you believe that somebody will expend money in travels thousands kilometers, hotel, etc., to your patio for an only medal? Your proposition is very unbelievable.

Be factual.