A patent to detect substances by infrared like Esteban used.

[Esteban]

I am not saying detection of substances by infrared is complete bogus idea, i am just pointing you on fact that it is not necessary true and real all what have been patented so far.
However; detection of substances by infrared is not usable technique in our domain - exploring buried metals etc..
How could you possibly expect IR waves to penetrate the soil?
Or...you gonna repeat same old theory about airborne substances, especially over the areas with buried metal?

Maybe only small portion of IR can penetrate the soil, but the modulated IR ray collect the distortion in the place. I know you don't have experience in it, so, for you is impossible. And I can added more: maybe this one of better electronic LRL procedures.

[Esteban]

Google patents, here you can downloaded the pdf.

http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=wa2RAAAAEBAJ&dq=7288927

[Esteban]

The system used in patent is modulated, as mine system. But you don't need receiver photodiode, because the total voltage in receiver (the monitor, a simple FM radio) changes and voilá!

[ivconic]

Maybe only small portion of IR can penetrate the soil, but the modulated IR ray collect the distortion in the place. I know you don't have experience in it, so, for you is impossible. And I can added more: maybe this one of better electronic LRL procedures.

I think i understand what are you meaning by that. Only i don't understand what kind of "distortion" you are talking about? Distortion in earth magnetic field? Distortion in temperature? Distortion in moisture?
What kind of distortion in/on soil is detectable with IR waves?
If you clear up this, than it would be more easy to understand the rest of your ideas.

[Esteban]

I think i understand what are you meaning by that. Only i don't understand what kind of "distortion" you are talking about? Distortion in earth magnetic field? Distortion in temperature? Distortion in moisture?
What kind of distortion in/on soil is detectable with IR waves?
If you clear up this, than it would be more easy to understand the rest of your ideas.

The distortion is a change in electrical/magnetic/chemist/temp characteristics in soil where is buried good conductive metal. So, the "phenomenon" is some complex. With IR I found (in my patio) not very old item (a coin) buried for only few years, but not at depth. In few years isn't creates the enough electric field or "phenomenon", called by others "halo". But a item buried for 100 years can be detected at more depth. But this isn't mean that a item buried for 1,000 years can be detectable X 10 in depth. I think the limit for a single coin is 75 cm for IR. But IR laser can be good. Maybe.

[Astrodetect]

As I understand it the infrared modulated beam stimulates the substance to be detected by molecular resonance which in turn produces a characteristic electric response signal.
The IR beam causes a resonance in the electron clouds in the molecules of the air.
The electrons are charged particles which can be moved (attracted or repelled) by external electric fields and if the frequency of the ac electric field is adjusted suitably in frequency and amplitude, then this resonance will cause the object or substance to give off electrons so there is an electrical emission in the air surrounding it.This is the phenomenon which is being detected.
Regards

[Esteban]

As I understand it the infrared modulated beam stimulates the substance to be detected by molecular resonance which in turn produces a characteristic electric response signal.
The IR beam causes a resonance in the electron clouds in the molecules of the air.
The electrons are charged particles which can be moved (attracted or repelled) by external electric fields and if the frequency of the ac electric field is adjusted suitably in frequency and amplitude, then this resonance will cause the object or substance to give off electrons so there is an electrical emission in the air surrounding it.This is the phenomenon which is being detected.
Regards

The patent refers molecular resonance. Many years ago Alonso use the words "molecular detection". And born many experiments, the most workable systems. The metal buried many years also causes his own "clouds", or particular "atmosphere" around the target, called by us "phenomenon".

[WM6]

As I understand it the infrared modulated beam stimulates the substance to be detected by molecular resonance which in turn produces a characteristic electric response signal.
The IR beam causes a resonance in the electron clouds in the molecules of the air.
The electrons are charged particles which can be moved (attracted or repelled) by external electric fields and if the frequency of the ac electric field is adjusted suitably in frequency and amplitude, then this resonance will cause the object or substance to give off electrons so there is an electrical emission in the air surrounding it.This is the phenomenon which is being detected.

Your undestanding is correct. In the fifties scientist did an experiment so that red laser beam was modulated by voice of Marilyn Monroe and all the gold ingots in Fort Knox exposed to red laser beam have experienced an extrasensoric erection. Fresh stored gold ingots rise to 46 °, but gold ingots more than 10 years in storage even as much as 87 ° of rising.

[WM6]

The metal buried many years also causes his own "clouds", or particular "atmosphere" around the target, called by us "phenomenon".

Interesting, by us the same thing is called "aberration".

[J_Player]

The patent refers molecular resonance. Many years ago Alonso use the words "molecular detection". And born many experiments, the most workable systems. The metal buried many years also causes his own "clouds", or particular "atmosphere" around the target, called by us "phenomenon".

Hi Esteban,
Are you defining the "phenomenon" you refer to as "clouds" that are produced in the air around long-time buried metals?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Carl-NC]

There are some "tells" in this patent. Can anyone find them?

[J_Player]

There are some "tells" in this patent. Can anyone find them?

"tells"?
It seems to me they are more than "tells". They tell the whole story of what is being patented:

1. To start with, "other publications" and "prior art" shown in this patent come from a background of using spectroscopic methods to measure unknown materials with an emphasis on detecting bio-hazard gasses and explosives. The material being identified is either in the air, or placed in a testing location for a sample to be measured. Samples to be tested include gasses in the air and solid objects.

2. The claims in the patent tell a lot about what his idea is. His claims begin with three well known laser methods using tunable lasers, absorption spectroscopy, and triangulation, then incorporate a new method to transmit data from the sample target material. He is claiming rights to incorporate a tube located in his apparatus containing an 820nm laser to ionize oxygen to create a plasma that can be used in sending the signal to be collected and processed in a digitizer. The data collected from the target is digitized and combined with a separate signal returned from the target, then both signals are processed digitally to determine distance and identify the substance the laser spot is focused on using spectrometry methods.

3. The operating description at the bottom gives the final "tells".
The invention he patented is able to tell the distance of a target in the path of a laser by using triangulation methods that require two sensors to perform the triangulation. One case allows triangulation by a single sensor as long as a second sensing location separated by some distance is multiplexed into the light sensor. He even gives the schematics used for using a PIN diode or a phototransistor.

In his claims, the inventor specifies that:
A. An IR laser beam is AM modulated at about 100 KHz and held on the target in the line of sight of the beam in order to energize the sample to be identified. An additional "tell" is the author of the patent says other sources such as sunlight will also energize the target. This points us in the direction of photoacoustic spectroscopy, which he is already including in his methodology for this patent application.
B. The returned signal received from one or more light sensors is digitized and sent to a signal processor that compares the two return paths to extract the distance from triangulation data. It then finds the spectral peaks by using a fast Fourier transform and compares them digitally to known spectral signatures in order to see if a match is found for a known substance.
C. 820 nm laser-ionized oxygen is a feature of his claims that is used as an intermediate chemical in producing a signal that results in data found at the sample being identified.

Those are the "tells" I found in the patent. I didn't see any part about using an IR LED pulsed in the air with a 400 Hz square wave or an FM radio held near the power supply as an audio receiver to determine the spectral analysis or distance of the target material. Should we tell the inventor there is an easier way to determine what material he found at a distance?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Carl-NC]

You mention a few of the tells I noticed, but there's one that stands out:

"the ionization means is an optical radiation source, such as an IR laser beam source."

Infrared is not a frequency band that will ionize. Any jr level patent examiner should have noticed this and said, "Uh, wait a second... do you actually know what you are talking about?"

- Carl

[J_Player]

You mention a few of the tells I noticed, but there's one that stands out:

"the ionization means is an optical radiation source, such as an IR laser beam source."

Infrared is not a frequency band that will ionize. Any jr level patent examiner should have noticed this and said, "Uh, wait a second... do you actually know what you are talking about?"

- Carl

Yes, of course.
We cannot expect IR will ionize the target material. It would take a higher energy such as exposing the target to a radioactive source, or other ionizing radiation. This is what raises some curiosity about his "ionized oxygen" container, which he calls the "intermediate" ionized plasma that communicates with the target material. I was wondering if it ever worked in practice. Actually I haven't ever seen any evidence of this method being used in the years since this patent was issued.

I still wonder ... "does it work?"

I suppose if it did work, there are governments all over the world that would want to use it to identify contraband and to locate explosives, as well as finding where there are dangerous bio-hazard fumes in the air. This is a multi-billion dollar industry. A little checking will show that the inventor John Nutting is the owner of a small business with less than 4 employees, and does not appear to have become rich from producing his locator for the industries that desperately need what he claims it does.

Oh well. Maybe he should have tried the method of an LED pulsed at 400 Hz with an FM radio held close to hear and identify materials from a distance. This would have made him successful, right?

Best wishes,
J_P

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