A patent to detect substances by infrared like Esteban used.

[ivconic]

I don't know.
I have never detected what you call the "phenomenon". The anomalies I know of where there are buried metals take different forms depending on the metal and the soil it is in as well as a few other influences. These anomalies can be measured with a number of different instruments. But I never saw any instrument shaped like a pistol with a large coil or a zahori detect soil with buried metal from a distance to the side more than about a half meter.

If course, there is chemical action that releases metal ions from the surface of corroding buried metal. But I have no way to know if this contributes to the phenomenon that you claim to detect at a distance from the side. Maybe if I knew exactly what electrical property of the "Phenomenon cloud" area you are detecting, I could provide some clue.



...

And yes; also type of metal can affect speed of phenomena evolving. I am talking mostly about coins made from bronze here.
And i guess your coins were made mostly from nickel...
Best wishes,
J_P

I do beleive you on that. You never detected it...and i did many times. What's the differences?
I presume difference is in time; for how long item was buried in soil.
You live in USA? Right?
So, usuall coins you can detect there in soil are not older than 200-300 years.
I live in Europe, and usuall coins that i can detect on sites i've been visiting are for 1500-2000 years buried in soil, here.
So i guess; differences are in period of time that coins were buried in soil.
I presume that phenomena can not evolve in short period of time.. only logical explanation.

And yes; could be also dependable on type of metal too! Alloy! I am talking mostly about coins made from bronze here. And i guess you are talking mostly about nickels...

Regards!

[ivconic]

Or...maybe there i NOT any kind of phenomena we are talking about here?
Than how to explain my experiences? (posted previously)

....
Maybe...just maybe in cases when coin was detected at certain depth and later recovered couldn't be detected in air at more than 2/3 of previous depth; maybe in those cases where some "special" and beneficial chemical and electronical conditions in soil arround coin that improved EM field from search coil to propagate better?
If so than what would be those beneficial conditions?

[J_Player]

I do beleive you on that. You never detected it...and i did many times. What's the differences?
I presume difference is in time; for how long item was buried in soil.
You live in USA? Right?
So, usuall coins you can detect there in soil are not older than 200-300 years.
I live in Europe, and usuall coins that i can detect on sites i've been visiting are for 1500-2000 years buried in soil, here.
So i guess; differences are in period of time that coins were buried in soil.
I presume that phenomena can not evolve in short period of time.. only logical explanation.

And yes; could be also dependable on type of metal too! Alloy! I am talking mostly about coins made from bronze here. And i guess you are talking mostly about nickels...

Regards!

Nickels in the USA are made from stainless steel.
But I am talking about any metal. If the metal is corroding, then it is releasing ions by definition. Corrosion is an ionic chemical process. Even stainless steel corrodes to some small degree. I can show you about 5 pounds of stainless steel knives and forks I dug that are corroded enough to have holes through them. But it all depends on the soil and how long they were corroding. Much faster corrosion happens to copper and zinc based metals, while gold is one of the slowest. But the release of ions from metal surface is not limited to coins. It also happens with buried pipes, lost jewelry and metal buttons and ornaments and other metal trash, as well as natural metal deposits and ores.

Maybe you didn't understand me about what I didn't detect. I have detected buried metals using a metal detector that was held above the buried metal, that seemed to have an unusually strong signal which returned to the normal expected signal after I dug them. This only happened a couple of times.

What I did not see is any pistol type detector or zahori type pistol detect what Esteban describes as the "phenomenon" around a buried metal from more than about a half meter distance measured from the side of where the supposed "phenomenon" is. In fact I don't know exactly what a "phenomenon cloud" is other than what Esteban described as being a cloud area around a buried metal that seems to be electric/magnetic that could be in the air or ground or both... not known for sure. With that definition, I can't determine what it is.

Best wishes,
J_P

[ivconic]

J Player:

"...Maybe if I knew exactly what electrical property of the "Phenomenon cloud" area you are detecting, I could provide some clue..."

Exactly!
Truth is; WE DO NOT KNOW HOW TO EXPLAIN that phenomenon...

[Esteban]

I also experienced existence of "phenomena" many times on real soils (sketch below). I can not explain what is going on, but , for example:
i detected coin at certain depth in soil. Than when dug and recovered, it can be detected in air barely to 2/3 of previous depth in soil.

But it is hard to beleive that such small item like single coin, buried at such large depth as 1 meter, can produce so strong phenomena to reach coil surface and become detectable on soil surface! You see my point?

So if this was true; than my conclusion is that your LRL device simply MUST be able to PENETRATE soil to some depths...
Right?

Either that....either i can conclude that all previous claims about single coin detection at large depths were LIES...

I explain millions times. When you put oscillator near item, also you're killed the phenomenon. So, common MD can't show extreme difference only 1/3 more... But pistol is not an aggression to the environment. Also coil of common MD is more near to soil, so this robs the sensitivity. How can you speak of are lies if you do not have experience in this?

[ivconic]

Nickels in the USA are made from stainless steel.
But I am talking about any metal. If the metal is corroding, then it is releasing ions by definition. Corrosion is an ionic chemical process. Even stainless steel corrodes to some small degree. I can show you about 5 pounds of stainless steel knives and forks I dug that are corroded enough to have holes through them. But it all depends on the soil and how long they were corroding. Much faster corrosion happens to copper and zinc based metals, while gold is one of the slowest. But the release of ions from metal surface is not limited to coins. It also happens with buried pipes, lost jewelry and metal buttons and ornaments and other metal trash, as well as natural metal deposits and ores.

Maybe you didn't understand me about what I didn't detect. I have detected buried metals using a metal detector that was held above the buried metal, that seemed to have an unusually strong signal which returned to the normal expected signal after I dug them. This only happened a couple of times.

What I did not see is any pistol type detector or zahori type pistol detect what Esteban describes as the "phenomenon" around a buried metal from more than about a half meter distance measured from the side of where the supposed "phenomenon" is. In fact I don't know exactly what a "phenomenon cloud" is other than what Esteban described as being a cloud area around a buried metal that seems to be electric/magnetic.

Best wishes,
J_P

Ah that !!!!

You are not the only one! Me too!

[ivconic]

I explain millions times. When you put oscillator near item, also you're killed the phenomenon. So, common MD can't show extreme difference only 1/3 more... But pistol is not an aggression to the environment. Also coil of common MD is more near to soil, so this robs the sensitivity. How can you speak of are lies if you do not have experience in this?

So..i see!
Than you are supporting case B ? Right?
Case where single coin IS "ABLE" to produce phenomena to cover large area, to come out to soil surface and to be detectable with IR pistol? Right?

Other words; you are saying: 2cm diamm coin is able to produce 1 meter diamm phenomena?

Is that what you are claiming here Esteban?

[Esteban]

So..i see!
Than you are supporting case B ? Right?
Case where single coin IS ABLE to produce phenomena to cover large area, to come out to soil surface and to be detectable with IR pistol? Right?

Other words;2cm diamm coin is able to produce 1 meter diamm phenomena?

Is that what you are claiming here Esteban?

If the coin can be detectable at this depth and also at some distance, not only has vertical shape, also must be have an horizontal shape.

[ivconic]

If the coin can be detectable at this depth and also at some distance, not only has vertical shape, also must be have an horizontal shape.

Ok,ok...but please answer me with direct answer; yes or no!

I can extend my question with horizontal and vertical propagation, i don't mind.

So please read this again:

Other words; you are saying: 2cm diamm coin is able to produce 1 x 1 (horizontal and vertical) meter area of detectable phenomena?

[ivconic]

Might be that my question is not easy to understand ?

So i draw another sketch to make it more understandable.

Esteban please be patience with me and answer me with simple YES or NO.

So;

ARE YOU SAYING THAT 2cm SINGLE COIN, AT 1m DEPTH IN SOIL, IS ABLE TO PRODUCE PHENOMENA DETECTABLE AT SOIL SURFACE WITH IR LRL?

Simple Yes or No?

Many thanks for your answer, in advance.

[Esteban]

Ok,ok...but please answer me with direct answer; yes or no!

I can extend my question with horizontal and vertical propagation, i don't mind.

So please read this again:

Other words; you are saying: 2cm diamm coin is able to produce 1 x 1 (horizontal and vertical) meter area of detectable phenomena?

And more meters too! RF detector (radio) also helps here. So, the "phenomenon" is complex...

Experiments have been made:

1. If you climbs to a stairway, the "phenomenon" continues above.

2. If you close a cable or wire over the object (this is a closed loop), the "phenomenon" disappears. Shortcircuited!

3. If you put a small iron object near the object, the distance decreases.

4. If you put a large iron object on the target area may disappear almost completely, except for a treasure or a large object, good conductor.

5. If the soil is salty, the phenomenon spreads and is difficult to focus the object. Conductivity.

6. If you put a MD (on) over the target for 15 minutes or less, the "phenomenon" dissapears. So oscillations consumes the "phenomenon". The "phenomenon" recovers after X time.

7. If a lightning strikes near the target, the "phenomenon" dissapears and recovering after a certain time, can be 1-3 months.

And many more describing other experiments posted through the years, wish no repeat anymore... tired! If the "phenomenon" does not exist, why so many tests and experiments? (above).

And... are you another inquisitor?

[ivconic]

"..And... are you another inquisitor?..."

God NOOO! Of curse not! I just want to understand your views and understanding of phenomena!





"...Esteban please be patience with me and answer me with simple YES or NO...."

???

Esteban what is wrong with my question?!?

Are you NOT ABLE to simply answer my question???
Simply "Yes" or "No" ???


Do i need to preformulate question for hundred times more?
Do i need to repeat question also for hundred times more?

Are you able to simply answer with "Yes" or "No" ??

[ivconic]

Look; i am not asking you for any kind of explanations. Also i am not asking you for any kind of experiments here!


All i am asking is SIMPLE ANSWER; YES or NO.

Is my English so bad?

[Esteban]

8. If the wet is very high (in the air, no problem in stream, river or quiet water), "phenomenon" suffers dispersion and can't be detectable or expand like in salty terrain, except that with high moisture in air is not sure the detection (can exists many falses). But you're sure in salty terrain because is not false detection, only "phenomenon" is expanded.

9. Extremely fine rain helps in detection. Seems the "phenomenon" uses as a "road". This I comprobe with a BFO pistol, very insensitive to riffle cartridge. But in this opportunity seems the extremely fine rain acts as a "way" and beeps many times in the place of the riffle cartridge 7.62.

10. Round objects as coins and rings can be detectable at more distance. Seems that the charges do not "escape" from the round shapes.

I'll added more all I remembered.

[ivconic]

Look; i am not asking you for any kind of explanations. Also i am not asking you for any kind of experiments here!


All i am asking is SIMPLE ANSWER; YES or NO.

Is my English so bad?

All i am asking is SIMPLE ANSWER; YES or NO.

Is my English so bad?