Does water conduct electricity?

[Ernie]

So far so good part 2

In fact, you cannot arrive at such a conclusion ... unless you are also self-deluded.

The reality is that 100% of the population are unable to use dowsing to locate water. Note that this is subtly different to saying that dowsers have never been successful, as even a blind man on a dark foggy night can sometimes find water.

You should really be saying that B% of the population believe they can use the dowsing method to find water. You are currently making an erroneous assumption. As I stated previously, the other questions are pointless.

Qiaozki wan'ts to play the game - Is the glass HALF full or HALF empty?. You would have to be a HALFWIT to play that game. I wanted to start a type of family tree with this thread to find a science explanation for dowsing. So o.k. QIAOZKI can’t find water so unfortunately his tree in this tread has died of dehydration and anyone in the B% will hopefully be able to make conversation WITHOUT Qiaozki tree rising up from the ashes ever again. Maybe Qiaozki can better spend his time deciphering Estebans broken English explanations of how his FM works. ie As they say in the Australian mining industry - f off ya halfwit!!


Pheeww! I thought we wouldn’t get this far within 24 hrs.
Well I for one can say that I both believe and have physically found water via divining so I am in B% that can AND therefor the B% exists and should be alowed freedom of speach on this forum. Maybe with some more of the same positive communication we can all take the “pseudo” out of this “medieval evil pseudo science” and give it a righteous place and scientific explanation. The main reason it became medieval evil pseudo science was in the first place that scientist did not have the knowledge, tools , experience and manpower to answer how it works and they answered to their sponsors the churches, so the churches there for called it evil “the work of the devil”. A funny thing I find with the narrow minded Christian churches and dowsing is before the medieval times their bible was different. Modern day Luke5 describes how Jesus taught the masses how to divine schools of fish. But today’s post medieval bible has been edited by a medieval religious scholar thinking he was a greater messiah than Jesus and now does not describe that he ( Jesus ) used a fishes tail as a divining rod just as you would use a forked stick for water. Maybe before proceeding I should change my online name from Ernie to Satan 666.
Ionic solutions in water, why yes! I would think that it would depend on the elements that are leaching into the water flow to determine the overall charge of the stream, but it does sound logical that ionic solutions flow underground. y/n? Then it may be a thought that these spare electrons or lack of spare electrons in the ionic solns cause a type of current flow similar to that in copper wire but at a speed of the stream speed y/n? If so then a very slow changing voltage difference would occur down the path of a stream and also a magnetic field would be present y/n?
O.k. so the L rods aren’t detecting the water (y/n)? But they may be part of a circuit that is, similar to an antenna in a receiver, or glasses for seeing, a type of extension of the main detector. y/n? My main question still remains. Which forces are involved? Gravity? y/n? The water flows down hill due to gravity until it gets to its (onion type) layer in the planet. (I think everyone will say yes) When I divine with L rods is my brain sensing this via balance in the ear drums or senses elsewhere, and stimulating my muscles (internal body current flow) on one side of my body in an attempt to regain balance, which in turn charges one rod and causes them to come together? Y/n? Sounds reasonable to me, if I was using metal rods.
An interesting experiment I did once was after detecting the center of a known underground stream I then placed one rod into the ground (a type of electrical earth) the other rod swung quickly towards the direction of the current flow underneath me. Maybe it was acting as a type of gravity field compass? Y/n or possibly the magnetic field of the stream underneath caused this to happen?? Y/n?
I still can’t get my head around a forked tree branch though, a known and tested 30,000 year old method for finding water. O.k. one hand will be charged a bit more than the other (like two plates in a capacitor) and the tree branch contains water and possibly an ionic solution, but this to me does not explain the force that twists the fork down to the underground water.
Happy prospecting
Ernie

[WM6]

Hi Ernie, you are hidding your arguments so well, that they can not be opposed.

[Theseus]

<< other stuff snipped >>

....but this to me does not explain the force that twists the fork down to the underground water.
Happy prospecting
Ernie

If you are truly looking for the "real" explanation, and not just trolling; the answer may be found in the ideomotor effect. Holding the fork under tension, and at the ready position, will easily twist the bark off the fork when the ideomotor response fires and the tip of the fork moves violently down towards the ground. There is nothing electric or magnetic or electronic happening to cause this action - and if you think there is, you have been fooled by an illusion.

[Qiaozhi]

I wanted to start a type of family tree with this thread to find a science explanation for dowsing.

You've already found it ... but you're not listening!

Your posts are similar to a child who doesn't like the response to his question, so he keeps repeating it in the hope of getting a different answer.

[J_Player]

You've already found it ... but you're not listening!

Your posts are similar to a child who doesn't like the response to his question, so he keeps repeating it in the hope of getting a different answer.

Do you suppose that anyone who keeps looking for the answer they have in mind will eventually find it?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

Do you suppose that anyone who keeps looking for the answer they have in mind will eventually find it?

Best wishes,
J_P

Maybe on a dowsing forum, but not here.

[goldfinder]

Q ans: PURE Water is non-conductive. In fact water purity is measured by its conductivity- the purer the water the less it conducts. I have a water purity meter. They are standard equipment for testing water purity.

I agree w/ Earnie. Water can be found with dowsing. I have a friend in Calif. who makes a nice living dowsing/witching water wells. He is about 98% accurate.

The mechanism of dowsing is another question. the ideo motor effects is just another mental gimmick to name it something else. It solves nothing. People who cling to this are to be discounted.

I do believe and know that there is some type of physics going on with all matter that once we understand the physics we will be able to do long range (a least much further than current EM methods) detection of minerals like we do spectral analysis and metal detector stuff. I don't believe that the method will be an EM effect. There are non-hertzian (i.e. non-EM) fields, forces, energy emanations and this is well proven. For those who don't believe in them, they are simply those who haven't kept up with some really advanced physics that is being proven in the lab and nature and don't want to admit anything outside their little domain of "knowledge".

So Earnie,Hung,Esteban - keep at it - there is gold in them thar hills.

Goldfinder

[J_Player]

Ionic solutions in water, why yes! I would think that it would depend on the elements that are leaching into the water flow to determine the overall charge of the stream, but it does sound logical that ionic solutions flow underground. y/n?

There are many elements and compounds that leach into streams above ground and underground. These are mostly salts which become ions of oppositely charged molecules or atoms after they dissolve. The net charge is zero, as there are an equal number of anions as cations from salts. However, there are sometimes imbalances in the net charge caused by subatomic disturbances as well as electrical and chemical influences in the vicinity of the stream. The amount of imbalanced charge of the dissolved ions is infinitessimal in comparison to the total amount of anions an cations that are dissolved in any body of water. A few rare exceptions can occur for short durations. For example, if a lightning bolt strikes a stream, it could be possible to find a local area of water with a large imbalance of charge, and resulting chemical and mechanical disruptions for some short period of time. Shortly after the imbalance, the charges will seek paths to neutralize to zero, with the voltage behind the charge imbalance as the driving force to find equilibrium. Unless the imbalanced charge is located in a good insulator, it will quickly discharge through the most convienient conductive paths, leaving no net voltage difference. This tells us the stream has zero net charge except in the instants when there is a disturbance that causes an imbalance. Also, take note that this zero charge is in relation to the surrounding soil. If you were to talk about the difference in charge between the stream and a plane flying by, there would probably be a measureable difference.

Then it may be a thought that these spare electrons or lack of spare electrons in the ionic solns cause a type of current flow similar to that in copper wire but at a speed of the stream speed y/n?

The positive and negative ions are homogenously mixed in the water with a net charge of zero or close to it. If we think of these equally distributed charges as flowing, we could say there are negative ions moving at the speed of the stream that constitute amperage moving downstream. Then we would also need to count the equal number of positive ions also flowing downstream alongside the negative ones, which constitute an equal amperage moving upstream. The net current flow is zero. It is the same current flow you can find from carrying a short length of copper wire in your hand with nothing connected to it while walking along the bank of the stream. A meter will show there is no measurable current flowing in the wire due to it's movement in the downstream direction. And we know the copper wire has negatively charged electrons as well as positively charged protons moving in the downstream direction.

If so then a very slow changing voltage difference would occur down the path of a stream and also a magnetic field would be present y/n?

Voltage difference? What do you suppose would cause a voltage difference down the path of the stream? Maybe earth resistance to telluric currents under the ground?

O.k. so the L rods aren’t detecting the water (y/n)?

According to some people L rods aren't detecting anything. But if they are detecting something, I doubt it is water. When geologists use instruments to detect water and other anomalies under the ground, they actually detect other things than the water. For example, they detect the capacitance or resistance across a distance of the earth from several locations, or they detect radio frequency penetration properties, or listen for echoes, etc. After studying the results they observe from their instruments, they form their conclusions of what they think is under the ground. In most cases, geologists are pretty good at figuring out what is hidden under the ground.

But they may be part of a circuit that is, similar to an antenna in a receiver, or glasses for seeing, a type of extension of the main detector. y/n?

I have no idea what L rods are part of. The only answers I have heard are opinions that have a wide array of explanations.

My main question still remains. Which forces are involved? Gravity? y/n?

Also more opinions are the only answers I ever heard. You will probably never find any scientifically tested answers, because no scientific evidence has ever produced any electronic test data to suggest any force is at work with the exception of gravity pulling the rods downward, and a person's arm muscles causing them to move. However there is no shortage of opinions and even claims of tests to prove the opinions are correct. I doubt you will see any real tests results that you can use to repeat the claims you hear other than gravity helps to pull the rods down, and your arm muscles can help to move them any other direction.

The water flows down hill due to gravity until it gets to its (onion type) layer in the planet. (I think everyone will say yes) When I divine with L rods is my brain sensing this via balance in the ear drums or senses elsewhere, and stimulating my muscles (internal body current flow) on one side of my body in an attempt to regain balance, which in turn charges one rod and causes them to come together? Y/n?

First, in the case of underground water, these streams can also flow upward when the surrounding strata dictates it must. But it generally seeks a downward direction due to the force of gravity. I have no clue how this relates to your ear drums or balance when you are holding dowsing rods.

Sounds reasonable to me, if I was using metal rods.
An interesting experiment I did once was after detecting the center of a known underground stream I then placed one rod into the ground (a type of electrical earth) the other rod swung quickly towards the direction of the current flow underneath me. Maybe it was acting as a type of gravity field compass? Y/n or possibly the magnetic field of the stream underneath caused this to happen?? Y/n?

I have no idea.

I still can’t get my head around a forked tree branch though, a known and tested 30,000 year old method for finding water. O.k. one hand will be charged a bit more than the other (like two plates in a capacitor) and the tree branch contains water and possibly an ionic solution, but this to me does not explain the force that twists the fork down to the underground water.

I have no idea.

If you have narrowed down the force under question to be magnetic, electric, or gravitational, then there are some tests you can make to see which if any of these forces is at work:
You will need sensitive instruments to make these tests... the kind that geologists use. Here is how you can find the answers:
To test for a gravity force, you will need to use a gravimeter. If you don't own one, you could rent one or borrow one from a geologist in between field surveys.
Simply log the gravity readings and compare them to your dowsing response. It would be helpful if you recorded all your dowsing response before taking any gravity readings so you can be sure your response was not influenced by what you know the gravimeter reports.

You can repeat the same test with a magnetometer and with an electric field meter and any other instruments you want. If you are using calibrated instruments, then you will get some good data that shows what forces actually exist in the locations where you are seeing dowsing response, not opinions or anecdotal stories. Maybe this kind of testing can help eliminate some of the mystery about dowsing for you.


Best wishes,
J_P

[mts]

I think J_Player has this under control. Excellent answers.

[detectoman]

geo: may be is been easy find water whit l'rod, due what water is in movement and is conductive and has salt, these induce superficial magnetic field lines difference on iron, so due change of ground polarization, but on medium and little object this other story
tambien una rama verde en forma de y, y presionada a tension se dobla hacia abajo debido a la humedad que comprime sus fibras por el lado de abajo debido a la diferencia de exposicion del vapor de humedad, y arriba de esa rama el calor del sol, esto aunado a la alcalinidad interna y atraccion de hambre de sed de esa rama verde

[detectoman]

me han dicho que puede ser mejor una rama en y' del sauz lloron", ya que es muy elastica y le da mas sed, may be if may be no, im not wh

[Geo]

geo: may be is been easy find water whit l'rod, due what water is in movement and is conductive and has salt, these induce superficial magnetic field lines difference on iron, so due change of ground polarization, but on medium and little object this other story
tambien una rama verde en forma de y, y presionada a tension se dobla hacia abajo debido a la humedad que comprime sus fibras por el lado de abajo debido a la diferencia de exposicion del vapor de humedad, y arriba de esa rama el calor del sol, esto aunado a la alcalinidad interna y atraccion de hambre de sed de esa rama verde

Hi detectoman.
I know about it, i can find water very easy (and at who depth it flows).
The problem is the other people, who they can't find anything.... and they says that it is ideometor, electromotor, fantasticmotor .... and any type of motor they imagine.
Especially some people never tried to learn to work with dowsing, but they like to have opinion about the dowsing ..... and especial that it don't work


Regards

[Qiaozhi]

Hi detectoman.
I know about it, i can find water very easy (and at who depth it flows).
The problem is the other people, who they can't find anything.... and they says that it is ideometor, electromotor, fantasticmotor .... and any type of motor they imagine.
Especially some people never tried to learn to work with dowsing, but they like to have opinion about the dowsing ..... and especial that it don't work


Regards

http://www.randi.org/library/dowsing/

[hung]

Especially some people never tried to learn to work with dowsing, but they like to have opinion about the dowsing ..... and especial that it don't work


Regards

Hey Geo, your statement is so true that right after, one skepthic posted something to quickly prove it correct.
Mr. Administrator aside from his ideomotor definitions from 1812, being an armchair THunter and thinking acumpuncture is voodoo, yet posts a link to the GREATEST FRAUD in the internet. The cracked ex-magician who only survives trough the money of a few TV comercials. Well, at least this is what some dowsers say, but when I was in USA, I did not see a single of these comercials. Maybe Uri Geller has made it disappear for good?

[Qiaozhi]

Hey Geo, your statement is so true that right after, one skepthic posted something to quickly prove it correct.
Mr. Administrator aside from his ideomotor definitions from 1812, being an armchair THunter and thinking acumpuncture is voodoo, yet posts a link to the GREATEST FRAUD in the internet. The cracked ex-magician who only survives trough the money of a few TV comercials. Well, at least this is what some dowsers say, but when I was in USA, I did not see a single of these comercials. Maybe Uri Geller has made it disappear for good?

James Randi's Dowsing Fund: $1M
Hung's Dowsing Fund: $0

Wonder why that is?