ICONOS MD 807

[Funfinder]

thx for pointing me in the direction - if it's this:

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11674&page=6

I can try it first. But there exist also 2 other circuits that could work...

All this stuff reminds me alot on long time ago kids-electronic-experiments - amplifying of background-noise or putting some metal near some coil gave a change in audiofrequency...

But this is good because all those "EM-LRL-Circuits" have a broad variation spectrum. First I will try amp-circuits without all that many capacitors and stuff - keep it simple in the beginning like with detector-radio receiver (that works: "free to air").

I haven't seen the video movies yet but read about it and this was a great idea from you and Geo in 2009 to prove those LRLs under reasonable and real TH-conditions!

btw. what is the common reaction if "treasure" is near so I can focus on it: Does "static noise" vanishes or raises?

[Morgan]

Treasures

thx for pointing me in the direction - if it's this:

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11674&page=6

I can try it first. But there exist also 2 other circuits that could work...

All this stuff reminds me alot on long time ago kids-electronic-experiments - amplifying of background-noise or putting some metal near some coil gave a change in audiofrequency...

But this is good because all those "EM-LRL-Circuits" have a broad variation spectrum. First I will try amp-circuits without all that many capacitors and stuff - keep it simple in the beginning like with detector-radio receiver (that works: "free to air").

I haven't seen the video movies yet but read about it and this was a great idea from you and Geo in 2009 to prove those LRLs under reasonable and real TH-conditions!

btw. what is the common reaction if "treasure" is near so I can focus on it: Does "static noise" vanishes or raises?

Long time ago buried metals(hig conductive) or treasures acumulate or generate energy. When you locate treasure the sound in eletrostatic detector will increase,the same with the BFO,all together.
You should talk with member Detectoman from Mexico,he have build the project and made better performance,he is expert in BFO detectors.

Regards

[Funfinder]

OK, very interresting:

"Long time ago buried metals(hig conductive) or treasures acumulate or generate energy."

Because usually a piece of metal will "absorb" a part of the EM radiation energy of a metal detector by eddy currents, magnetic saturation etc. Perhaps this is the reason why some LRLs find the treasure anymore after someone "radiated" it with the in comparation very "strong" EM fields of his MD. Comparable with magnetized iron. I can imagine the buried treasure will absorb the "natural" and "industrial" radiation around for a long time and interact if the EM-field around changes, that's why this larger metal objects can radiate something at all! Temperature and galvanic effects may also play a role, but not necessarily.

OK, maybe this is too much to ask, but perhaps someone already know on what main-frequency range that "treasure-energy" radiates with the strongest level?!

Is it a mixture of all kind of frequency like with uncovered motor-sparks so you can simply can use some sort of "very sensitive everything-amplifier"?

I asked this because alot frequency spectrums can give alot background-noise and failure signals, even can jam good signals completly! There even exists the 8K background noise from the universe / big bang. Especially VHF radio stations, cell phones, satellite signals and: electricity lines make extreme noise if near - and most of the time if not always those are near.


Well, building a BFO is no problem:

http://www.easytreasure.co.uk/bfo.htm

I also can modify a wire-searcher that uses other circuit.

Perhaps a BFO that is very stable and recognises the difference of just 5Hz (audible as ticking) for the beginning is a good idea - especially if it works somehow "directional concentrated".

But if I find some FETs or what else will work maybe I'll better go for the electrostatic - could bring much more exciting test-experiments.

Thx Morgan, also for the info about Detectoman, perhaps I'll contact him or he posts some suggestions here.

[Funfinder]

In the meanwhile I found the shielded antenna detector so it has to be directional:

THE FERRITE TREASURE SENSOR

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14935

And i will test with open basis transistor, microvoltmeter, opamp circuits in series and all kind of stuff that can signalize the smallest amounts of EMfield, frequency or current-changes. Not to forget all kind of different antennas, coils...

btw. ferrite is blocking / absorbing HF! Anyway: Let's start the action.

edit: look what I've found - I could try this self created "Super Amplifier"-schematic with 2 PNP transistors from 12 years ago:

[Funfinder]

I knew it!

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12107

Dear Mr. Moreland,

We would like to double-accept your challenge, as :

- MINEORO manufacturer of electronic LRL and
- SEGMAX manufacturer of mechanical inertial detectors by ionic and electrostatics fields (not dowsing)

- Our system of detection is by ionic fields and electrostatic fields.
- It is neither electromagnetic nor terrestrial magnetic or magnets.

But seeing the dust on the outside screen of HF TV-Tube is proof enough electrostatic is electromagnetic, too. And aren't ions "overflueous" electrons?

However it's very good the mineoro inventors himself point us in the right direction - even if we really have to combine different methods to get most reliable results.

And: I don't wanna know what the Mineoro LRL signalizes if you're standing on a mountain and a thunderstorm is near... My father survived such a great electrostatic event...

Under such circumstances you'll get that spacy "haircut" like above - but without any plastic-friction.

Yeah, that's THE idea! We go treasure hunting with a mobile tesla generator! This is really cool, as long as the flash hits the treasure! Like under real conditions the high electorstatic field causes the flash to hit the nearest and most attractive "electrode", which often is metal. Don't wear any umbrella in a thunderstorm but wear a mobile faraday cage @ MDing.

So the only question remaining is how to make the flash hit the treasure and not us, some ground or trees! And without big noise & setting the treasure chest on fire!

[Morgan]

LRL´s

I knew it!

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12107

But seeing the dust on the outside screen of HF TV-Tube is proof enough electrostatic is electromagnetic, too. And aren't ions "overflueous" electrons?

However it's very good the mineoro inventors himself point us in the right direction - even if we really have to combine different methods to get most reliable results.

And: I don't wanna know what the Mineoro LRL signalizes if you're standing on a mountain and a thunderstorm is near... My father survived such a great electrostatic event...

Under such circumstances you'll get that spacy "haircut" like above - but without any plastic-friction.

Yeah, that's THE idea! We go treasure hunting with a mobile tesla generator! This is really cool, as long as the flash hits the treasure! Like under real conditions the high electorstatic field causes the flash to hit the nearest and most attractive "electrode", which often is metal. Don't wear any umbrella in a thunderstorm but wear a mobile faraday cage @ MDing.

So the only question remaining is how to make the flash hit the treasure and not us, some ground or trees! And without big noise & setting the treasure chest on fire!

Hi funfinder

You have some ideias,can put in practice and inform us. i can tell you all MINEORO devices detect TV screen radiation,also the project i put in threads,even go more distant...
The box must be made of wood,no plastic,this is very important.
This is a LRL easy to build project and nobody become empthy walett.
The BFO you post is good for the project becouse of good stability.I have buit,its the Dave Smith BFO,this man is the ZAXON-X1 builder,good MD but heavy and disccriminate on 70% of iron ,anyway better than PI detectors ...

Regards

[Funfinder]

Hi Morgan,
thx for your answer and I got a new idea already:
You are one of the few persons here that has some Mineoros.

Can you make some tests at what distance and circumstances (as example place some iron objects between the detector and the device) it shows a new gold- or silver coin?

The distance is not important but the question, how and if "usual" noble metal gets detected in air and what "unburied" energy level a coin etc. has. In Air tests at least are reliable and repeatable, thats why such experiments will lead us to "all the time working" LRLs.

[Morgan]

MINEORO

Hi Morgan,
thx for your answer and I got a new idea already:
You are one of the few persons here that has some Mineoros.

Can you make some tests at what distance and circumstances (as example place some iron objects between the detector and the device) it shows a new gold- or silver coin?

The distance is not important but the question, how and if "usual" noble metal gets detected in air and what "unburied" energy level a coin etc. has. In Air tests at least are reliable and repeatable, thats why such experiments will lead us to "all the time working" LRLs.

Its not so easy...

Only the model DC 2008 can detect gold in air test,but distance on large coin is 20 cm. The other models DCH 85 ,PDC 210 and DC 2006 not detect metal in air test but detect static charges on plastics,the DC 2008 not detect the plastics.
The DC 2008 is the model i like,becouse found some objects,and the DCH 85 with circuit TDA 7000 (modificated by Esteban) is also good and found objects. But MINEORO never locate with pinpoint precision as they claim in their site,it was always flip flop sparzed signals a few meters around the objects, i always confirm it was not erratics.

[Funfinder]

lrl i'm coming

Very well - at least one detector finds a coin by "electrostatic"-method and those 20cm are improvable.

However now I know that coins in air test will get more complicated as battery-sparks sensitivity tests.

But I don't know this is better if the new DC 2008 doesn't detect (any?) electrostatical-charges.

If you attach the Mineoro to some small parabolic satellite dish which is grounded with the box you may get better directional results.

I can imagine the pinpointing is complicated because of the broad and low frequency spectrum. So it works more like a:
"The nearer the signal-source, the stronger the waves."

However to construct and improve such devices it is very important those find metal - even with low sensitivity and very close - under "hobby-room conditions" and not only under "undisturbed far out in the fields or woods" ones.

btw. sparzed signals also can be the fault of a wrong designed end-stage. If the "give a blink or beep level" is too high you just will hear or see some "peak values". This is a question of threshold, filtering and making small changes of signal-power very good distinctable.

Thats's why some broadband analogue output could be better than just some on/off LEDs.

btw. the new ultrabright LEDs still work with a 1kOhm resistor using 9V (normally those work with 4.5 Volts and a pre-resistor of about 50-100Ohm) starting with 220 Ohm so it's possible to use them as very sensitive and from dark to bright going "analogue" signal-lamps.

OK, I really have now all information and will start with the "creative experiments". Yesterday I built already the accu-pack (8 x 1.2 or 1.5 Magnum) that has a 9V battery connector so the power is on!

First I will keep the circuits very simple but still trying to get maximum gain so almost everybody here can reproduce the effects. The more complex part will be a good "directional antenna" 'cause I guess just a small alu-tube won't receive much energy. Perhaps I'll find something between 90cm sat.dish and litte alutube.

I'm outta here but soon back and will inform you about the first tests including schematics and additonal stuff!

[Funfinder]

Fantastic - the first "treasure" already was found - 3 FETs, 1 Thyristor and some other stuff! (most of them from an old Macintosh Plus TV-Unit board)

I haven't found any 2N3819 or MPF102 but I'll check if mine work the same good or even better.

[Morgan]

The LRL Antenna

Very well - at least one detector finds a coin by "electrostatic"-method and those 20cm are improvable.

However now I know that coins in air test will get more complicated as battery-sparks sensitivity tests.

But I don't know this is better if the new DC 2008 doesn't detect (any?) electrostatical-charges.

If you attach the Mineoro to some small parabolic satellite dish which is grounded with the box you may get better directional results.

I can imagine the pinpointing is complicated because of the broad and low frequency spectrum. So it works more like a:
"The nearer the signal-source, the stronger the waves."

However to construct and improve such devices it is very important those find metal - even with low sensitivity and very close - under "hobby-room conditions" and not only under "undisturbed far out in the fields or woods" ones.

btw. sparzed signals also can be the fault of a wrong designed end-stage. If the "give a blink or beep level" is too high you just will hear or see some "peak values". This is a question of threshold, filtering and making small changes of signal-power very good distinctable.

Thats's why some broadband analogue output could be better than just some on/off LEDs.

btw. the new ultrabright LEDs still work with a 1kOhm resistor using 9V (normally those work with 4.5 Volts and a pre-resistor of about 50-100Ohm) starting with 220 Ohm so it's possible to use them as very sensitive and from dark to bright going "analogue" signal-lamps.

OK, I really have now all information and will start with the "creative experiments". Yesterday I built already the accu-pack (8 x 1.2 or 1.5 Magnum) that has a 9V battery connector so the power is on!

First I will keep the circuits very simple but still trying to get maximum gain so almost everybody here can reproduce the effects. The more complex part will be a good "directional antenna" 'cause I guess just a small alu-tube won't receive much energy. Perhaps I'll find something between 90cm sat.dish and litte alutube.

I'm outta here but soon back and will inform you about the first tests including schematics and additonal stuff!

Very well,you can develop better antenna for this LRL,but also need something very ligth,satelite dish ok but one of the smaller.
As i told,this is one LRL experimental and open to many modifications and improvments for better performance.

Regards

[Morgan]

Very well,you can develop better antenna for this LRL,but also need something very ligth,satelite dish ok but one of the smaller.
As i told,this is one LRL experimental and open to many modifications and improvments for better performance.

Regards

[Funfinder]

Morgan you're right with the antenna, 'cause the pistol-MD shouldn't be too heavy.

Accupack, Case, electronic, Antenna - maybe all together 1-2kg max.

I've been lucky with my FET find 'cause I found this info:

"2N5485 is a viable alternative to the seeminly weak MPF 102"

And I've constructed already circuit01 - see below.
It is very simple and uses two NF "low gain" transistors (the most common ever) but it has already noise output via speaker, even without any antenna!

The principle is an AM diode receiver with audio amp but without any tuning capacitor or ferrite-transformer-coils and you can built it at 1x1cm size even without pcb. Very sensitive already because it justs needs a 470k resistor as "electron-feed". No sparks audible so far.

Perhaps this will be later just the audio-stage. For amplifying such week electrostatic signals i have to check what noise level all those parts have and maybe an op-amp LM358 or LM324 makes a better job. And I'm already curious how good the field effect transistor will receives "whatever"..

Anyway - my first receiver circuit after a very long time and this is just the beginning!

[Funfinder]

It works!

Silver Ring lying on cartboard detected from 15-20cm! over some sort of transformercoil I attached to the gate. Hum vanishes if ring is near.

So far no shielding and built on a plastic surface - no problem!

FET 2N5485 drain to antenna in (see schematic) and source to +9V via 150 Ohm resistor. Everything else like before.

Antenna- and fine-tuning-experiments will follow soon.

Thx for ya help Morgan and as you see already it also won't take very long to perfectionate the whole thing.

[Morgan]

LRL modifications

Silver Ring lying on cartboard detected from 15-20cm! over some sort of transformercoil I attached to the gate. Hum vanishes if ring is near.

So far no shielding and built on a plastic surface - no problem!

FET 2N5485 drain to antenna in (see schematic) and source to +9V via 150 Ohm resistor. Everything else like before.

Antenna- and fine-tuning-experiments will follow soon.

Thx for ya help Morgan and as you see already it also won't take very long to perfectionate the whole thing.

Well,it seem we are alone in this project but i like to hear you have good results with the first PCB. Anyway what kind of antena or coil you make to detect the silver ring ?

Regards