Constructive structure of controvers topics

[Funfinder]

While reading through the whole 20 pages long "Bionic 01 Video" thread I started to wonder if this actually used style of discussion is it really worth.

What's the goal, what's the gain, what's the reason of all this?

If the reason is getting secured info that LRL really works inclusive finding proven evidence we have to work more like detectives and focus on technical details, staying strictly ontopic and avoiding any discussion that has really nothing to to with LRL if it's success that we wanna achieve.

Do we want a working LRL or not?

I hope everybody now says: YESSSS!

So we really have to care about technical details. To make this whole "discussion-culture" problematic better understandable I will give you a very good example:

You all know the Sony Playstation (1), THE game console from 1995-2001 (next came up the PS2, XBOX, Wii etc. etc.)

Comparable with some working LRL I'm claiming now that you can play backups completly without modchip, bootdisc or swaptrick.

What will you do now?
Searching the internet high and low! What will you find? Nothing! Try it. Really. You only will get that info I told you already.

So what will you do after this? If anybody comes up and will tell you it is possible, like with LRLs you will completly negate such claims.

This is exactly the point we have here.

If someone tells a LRL works it would be the same if I would tell you a PSX backup boots by playing some audiofile with the PC.

Can't be possible, we can't imagine this could work - same like with LRL. We never have heard such could really work. We looked in all PSX forums or at Modchip-Pages and no one knows anything about this. It is impossible, because otherwise there never would have been modchips, if it really would be that simple.

This is exactly the same like with LRLs. "We" have no proofs, "we" have no serious info that it works, so "we" don't believe in such stuff.

You even would call me a liar 'cause I claimed such "nonsens" at all.


So let's now play through that game:
I'm claiming that playing a simple soundfile with the computer and sending it into the PSX completly replaces a bootchip. To keep it similar to the LRL I don't give you any evidence, so you have to check for other informations for verification of this statement. Maybe I could make some video like some guys do with LRLs so you see it but still won't believe it. But this won't convict you. Because it sounds simply far too unrealistic and crazy for you. Like with LRLs. No evidence, no circuits, no double-blind tests.

I'm waiting for replys to my above claim... - let's see how you will argument.

[Funfinder]

OK, you won't believe me - that was clear and for you perhaps the logical, right, secure or correct way - the same as with LRL...

But you have to believe me if I'm posting the special sound file - well, I really hope you will - finally.

So check this out: http://www.multiupload.com/U26BE3882T

Sorry all you nonbelievers, but you REALLY have to learn like the same with LRL that there are very clever & smart people out there that can do magic with electronic. If you like to believe it or not...

I also could have said it in other words:
"I don't care what others think and if they call it impossible, because I work already with such kind of real working stuff for a long time!"

But I like you and have to give you a serious: "open your mind"-lesson, because LRL is a much too important topic just for making criticism or even worse - fun - out of it!

[WM6]

This is exactly the same like with LRLs. "We" have no proofs, "we" have no serious info that it works, so "we" don't believe in such stuff.

97.79% of LRLs are working. No doubt.

There are only small awkward details tha LRL is not working as claimed.

[WM6]

I also could have said it in other words:
"I don't care what others think and if they call it impossible, because I work already with such kind of real working stuff for a long time!"

If so, thend we can be sure that LRL is not working.

[Funfinder]

WM6, please get more specific or do you like to deceive me?

The last statement you've quoted was general but really fits to members like Hung or Esteban.

And if that "97.79%" just are some "awkward" details (btw. this says nothing clearly technically again - tell me those details!) I wonder why as example such topics like the Bionic 01 have been discussed pure negative only (in explanation: "No, this stuff for shure can't work").

[WM6]

Hi Funfinder,

you say "... I work already with such kind of real working stuff for a long time!" "Long time" mean years, dont you?

So, it is clear that thing is not working all this years. If your LRL was working, you would not need to buy expensive Jeohunter.

[Funfinder]

@ WM6
It's useless to discuss with you, because you just don't get it! This statement was a citate and had nothing to do with me personally. But that wise statement makes clear the big difference between real world and people that only want's to see or believe what feels comfortable for them. Dreamers like the fans of pop-stars... You WM6 would be also a good candidate for those absurd: "AIDS doesn't exists at all"-believers.


But back to our experiment. So far I haven't heard any:
"Wow, Funfinder, cool your invention is really simple but brilliant and beats all modchips."

The same like with ignorant and just wanna talking things bad LRL-nonbelievers. No interrest on technical details, just the repeat of the "allmighty theme":

"It won't work because it simply cannot work. If it works it would be an affront to "my" mind and "my" great technical knowledge." Smokers also don't want to think about that it could seriously damage their health. This is all the same kind of psychological selfprotection - or better: selfdeceiving!

At least here are some electronically skilled persons that really want to find out how and if certain LRLs really work. But this requires own efforts and some grade of technical open mind.

That's why it is almost completly useless to convice you the PSX audio file works as long as someone can't make it work, too. It's the same with LRL: If a LRL-denier ask the OKM producers in Germany he won't believe their claims, and if he asks a successful customer or reseller the same. He only would believe it if it has worked "proofable" for him personally, but in alot cases he never will try or use such device because of the high price or other more ore less "good" reasons.

So in our experiment now the big question is: Anyone here that still has some old PSX / PS1 or knows someone that has one and is willing to proof my claim?

Compared to LRL this step would be "seriously testing" or "finding out if it really works". If you start a big campagne that you are shure this special car will stop working after 10.000 miles you would get really big trouble with the big company that produces it. But what some people here doing with LRLs is almost completly the same! Claiming without any deeper technical knowledge or large test experiences that this or that LRL doesn't work at all! This simply is not fair and if I would be the producer of a really working LRL I would drag your *** to court! Because what some here are doing really could be business-destroying by making all those wrong accusations!

Of course the still untouched 25grands pot could be seen as a proof that there actual no real working LRLs out there. Or those just work under special circumstances.

Perhaps it would be better to pay some LRL-nonbelievers that money if those are proofing this stuff really does not work. Because after this you would have hard facts and strong evidence and could forcing those companies by law that these have to stop BSSing treasure hunters with their sometimes extremly overpriced "wonder-machines".
But because alot or most LRL nonbelievers just wanna make big words instead of serious technical tests this will never happen. The same with my PSX experiment, nobody even will try if it works - because the nonbeliever-mind always says:
"No, it can't work, just don't waste your time with such stupid claims".

[Funfinder]

understanding the phenomenon

It is always very important (really?) to understand the working principle so I will try to make it clear for you:

Well, you can listen to the Band Phenomena with fantastic Songs like "Stop!" (...before you break my heart) or "Dance With The Devil" (isn't LRL some kind of "black magic" as long as you can't scientifically prove it?) OR you can listen to my explanations:

First you only will be shure that my claims are the truth if you can experience it by yourself. So please do this not very hard job and get yourself some old PSX, there are still millions used but working out there!

If you are seriously interrested you have to prove it by yourself to convince yourself. No matter how big the personally gain or profit is.


But for making you more appetite (like here with LRLs) I will try to explain you the "phenomena":

You may say it is absolutly impossible recreating digital encryption or protection patterns by simple analog stuff like a audio-soundfile is.

Shure, because this is the general technical knowledge - but not the specific one.

In case of the PSX boot protection it was written at a 22khz modulated wobble of the game CDs Lead-In area (the one very near the center, before the data track starts). Any CD-R already has a 22kHz modulated pre-groove so the burning laser can align to the track and knows where to write. This makes it impossible to write the "boot-code" onto CD-R. You only can press it.

Making a long story short: I found out that you simply can inject the 22kHz booting code signal by the soundcard into the PSX-Lasers output connection wire.

Removing the Plastic cover and soldering the contacts of some 3,5mm audiojack to ground and the special CD-unit pin works!

The "phenomena" in fact just consists of a fitting change of digital current/voltage/frequency by analog current/voltage/frequency. The lower digital signals get a huge amount of analog power. That's why the CD-R 22kHz signal does no longer matters at all.

Is this solution too simple to understand for you? I really hope not, because the goal must be to understand it at all, no matter how simple it is. If you refuse to understand it even if it is that simple, you have to try it out as a proof your opionion is right or wrong! And believe me, it is right.

And if you ask me, the so called "LRL phenomenon" also just is a very simple change in electromagnetical field caused by a natural "condenser-effect" that interacts with the electrostatic and electromagnic field lines! The surrounding ground changes the polarity of the emanating metal-ions which causes the condenser effect! Just the way for signalizing the engery-changes of this field nowadays is too simple and therefore misunderpretable. Better sometimes we use a grafical display with different colors to make that field directly visible and taking 3 instead of just 1 antenna for showing the grafic and field-differences much more accurate.

The metal object simply distorts the EM and Voltage-Field like here described:

http://www.eskimo.com/%7Ebillb/emotor/chargdet.html

7. FIELD DISTORTIONS
Electrify a plastic object, place it on an insulating support, place the FET sensor near it, then make sure the LED is turned on. If you now wave your hand near the object or the sensor, the LED will respond. Your hand causes the e-field around the object to distort and change. Even though your hand is not electrified, the FET responds. You've created a sort of "DC Radar" system which sends out a signal and then responds when nearby objects "reflect" the signal. Some types of industrial sensors ("proximity" or "capacitive" sensors) use this effect. Some burglar alarms do as well.

and therefore leads to detectable reflection, bridge, radar or concentration effects.

[WM6]

. But this requires own efforts and some grade of technical open mind.

That is which you apparently lack of.

[Funfinder]

@ WM6
Your answer is offtopic and you are offtopic!


But back to our experiment:

For making it much more exciting and mysterious like with LRLs of course I also have to post some pic(s) where the important things have been edited or deleted...

[WM6]

Excellent, dear Funfinder. Best schematic ever seen.

[Funfinder]

Thanx for your kind words, WM6, i know finally you would recognise it.

But this nice schematic above was just a demonstration and was used for my: "boot PSX with programmable keycard"-project.


Here what I really like to demonstrate is the contraproductive, unfair and untechnical discussion about LRLs.

ivconic was absolutly right when he criticised Esteban not posting ONE simple but working or complete LRL schematic.

Heating up the interrest of people for must having on of these LRL-wonder-machines by colorful pix/movies containing alot gold-finds is the marketing and commercial side of the whole topic (especially if we look to the extreme price of those devices!), but to proof that for shure and how good those work is THE essential and much more important thing!

Of course we should be cautious with patented and for a company important "industrial secrets" so those can live on without the fear of "chinese production pirates" etc. but at least they have to convince people that their LRLs really works, 'cose otherwise they will sell just a few at all to very uninformed, uncritical people or arabic oil-millionaires that like to play with some new toy.


The whole stuff is pretty simple:
If someone buys something he wants a working product! Basta!
And usually it's the task of the producer and the resellers for making clear it really works as claimed.

This crucial point here in this forum is completly missing!

And I doubt it is only because LRLs work just under special circumstances like dry sunny weather, very seldom long buried gold treasures or even long range to where the production-firm is located.

Taking a closer look to all those special conditions is very important, filtering them out or verifying them, so that in the end a working or not working LRL will remain.

Morgan and Geo did a great job in this direction and also J_Player would think positive about LRLs if he can be assured by personal experience those really work.

Showing you that my PSX audio file really will work is childsplay for me, but what we need are water-proofed LRLs and the active help of those that produce or claim it.


That's why we must discuss very technical without all this "offtopic smalltalk" that brings us no step further.

[J_Player]

... J_Player would think positive about LRLs if he can be assured by personal experience those really work.

I have personal experience that LRLs of the kind shown in this forum don't work. Can you show me one that does work?

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

Thanx for your kind words, WM6, i know finally you would recognise it.

.

What "finally"? I believe in your ingenuity from start.

[Funfinder]

I have personal experience that LRLs of the kind shown in this forum don't work. Can you show me one that does work?

Best wishes,
J_P

OK, your negative experiences will make it more complicated, but if I have enough info I really hope I can present you a working one.

btw. "shown in this forum" is some special case... The most important technical details, witnesses that it really works and a whole bunch of user-reviews is completly missing! The most here about LRL is "guessing", like if non-meteorologists discuss what kind of weather they will have in a few days.

J_Player, I'm shure you are an open-minded and fair-judging person with technical understanding so it's a proof how problematically the whole LRL topic is.

But Morgan also has had bad experiences with LRL in the first time like you and still some of his devices only sometimes work. btw. owning a MD or LRL is no guarantee for finding treasures. OK, with a MD for shure someone will detect something out of metal, but with a "Gold only LRL" the chances are many times lower.


@ WM6
> What "finally"? I believe in your ingenuity from start.

You are fantastic, so my ingenuity now just has to proof you that there is some real working LRL outside, correct?!

I will do my best but it could take some time. It would be much easier just throwing all LRL-producers into jail and release them only if they can proof their devices are really that good as they claim.