'Energy-sucking' Radio Antennas, N. Tesla's Power Receiver

[MIJ]

I found this site some time ago when searching for Tesla coils, and thought that some of you would be interested for future antenna applications?

http://amasci.com/tesla/tesceive.html#dnn


Possibly some of you may have already seen this.

Best Regards

[Mike(Mont)]

About a year ago I made a post on thunting.com on the Black Box Technology forum page titled "Tuned circuits, MFD's, and Dogs". I mentioned about a guy who was using a Walkie Talkie as an LRL transmitter (one of Bill Morgan's gizmos) and the guy said his dog found the signal line to the gold test target even though the Walkie Talkie was not in the transmit mode--it was just receiving. Somehow the tuned circuit resonance creates or at least maintains a signal line to the gold. The above link talks about energy sucking antenna and how a cyrstal radio can do this also pocket transistor radios and that would include the Raven LRL that Carl dissed and said it can't work. And he never will admit he is wrong, again! Raven, crow, I think it must taste the same.

[Mike(Mont)]

I just wonder when all you electronics "experts" are going to admit you cannot conceive much of anything about LRL's. I feel like I am being cruel just to bring this to light.

"Thou shalt not bear false witness..."

[MIJ]

Mike,

That reminds me of an article in one of our treasure hunting magazines a few years ago, where a dog trainer chap supposedly trained his dog to sniff out “Hammered Silver Coins” as they have a smell all of there own!!!!!

How wonderful is that????

[MIJ]

I just wonder when all you electronics "experts" are going to admit you cannot conceive much of anything about LRL's. I feel like I am being cruel just to bring this to light.

"Thou shalt not bear false witness..."

Mike,

I think that its OK to bring this up “Do some of the LRL`s on this forum work or do they not”

There are so many LRL projects posted hear “parts of this / bits of that” how confusing this all is.

The simple answer is we need two new threads as below-

1 - Working LRL`s with proof that they actually produce consistent results.

2 – Ongoing LRL projects undergoing tests and improvements.

Also what’s the idea behind posting a new LRL pistol or project, and then not telling anyone how it performs and operates in the field?

Playing the guessing game “dose it do this / dose it do that” this is all very childish, this is an open forum for the benefit of all who are dedicated to treasure hunting, metal detecting and the tools required to do the job.

[J_Player]

I just wonder when all you electronics "experts" are going to admit you cannot conceive much of anything about LRL's. I feel like I am being cruel just to bring this to light.

"Thou shalt not bear false witness..."

Tell us more, Mike(Mont)

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=138348#post138348

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=138815#post138815

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=138911#post138911

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=138502#post138502

You have been bragging about your LRL abilities for years, but nobody saw any action.
You couldn't show Carl or me or anyone else.
Maybe you can show MIJ some proof that you have a working LRL.



Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

Mike,

That reminds me of an article in one of our treasure hunting magazines a few years ago, where a dog trainer chap supposedly trained his dog to sniff out “Hammered Silver Coins” as they have a smell all of there own!!!!!

How wonderful is that????

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15823

[Jerry]

This guy could probably answer all of our questions

http://biggeekdad.com/2010/11/turbo-encabulator/

Jerry

[MIJ]

! Now that I do understand!

In old English “Absolutely bloody brilliant”

Thanks Jerry

[Mike(Mont)]

Mike,

I think that its OK to bring this up “Do some of the LRL`s on this forum work or do they not”

There are so many LRL projects posted hear “parts of this / bits of that” how confusing this all is.

The simple answer is we need two new threads as below-

1 - Working LRL`s with proof that they actually produce consistent results.

2 – Ongoing LRL projects undergoing tests and improvements.

Also what’s the idea behind posting a new LRL pistol or project, and then not telling anyone how it performs and operates in the field?

Playing the guessing game “dose it do this / dose it do that” this is all very childish, this is an open forum for the benefit of all who are dedicated to treasure hunting, metal detecting and the tools required to do the job.

I can't vouch for any of the pistol type detectors. I use the MFD type equipment (Molecular Frequency Discriminator). I have also used some LRL Locator rods. The MFD is by far the best I have used. I constantly say to myself "Ain't life wonderful?" These are basically a frequency generator and L-rods. You have to learn how to use the rods and that takes a few weeks of daily practice. For some reason the brightest people cannot seem to get that point through their thick skull.They must have some fear of failure when in fact they are a failure because they give up too soon.

These units do not work 100% of the time, most of the time but not all the time. Whatever the reason--be it atmospheric/solar magnetic conditions or human operator emotional state--yes, it can be frustrating to learn if you let it, if you think you are smarter than the manufacturer, if you do not follow the instructions (I read that old people cannot follow instructions), if you have your head up your rear like a few people around here, if you are pompous. I'm sure I missed a few choice adjectives. After all these years I still don't know why some people get so anger at the mention of these units. I can only figure they are paid by the metal detector industry (be it directly or indirectly) and that cost is passed on those who buy the metal detectors. Just like when they tax the rich, the costs are passed down to the poor people. They aren't smart enough to figure that out.

[Fred]

I use the MFD type equipment (Molecular Frequency Discriminator). I have also used some LRL Locator rods. The MFD is by far the best I have used.

Used for what purpose, Mike ?

[J_Player]

...I use the MFD type equipment (Molecular Frequency Discriminator).

... After all these years I still don't know why some people get so anger at the mention of these units.

Of course you don't know the reason why "people get so anger at the mention of these units".
The reason why you don't know the reason is because most people DON'T "get so anger at the mention of them".
The fact is you are so cut off from the reality of events around you that you apparently cannot discern when people are laughing or when they are angry.
This is to be expected considering your statements of how you do not read 95% of what is posted in this forum.

But what do people think about MFD units?
Most people think they are a joke -- something to laugh about.
Not something to "get anger at the mention of them".

And the people who don't think they are a joke to laugh about are busy trying to find all the best treasure frequencies -- They also are not "getting anger at the mention of them".
The only thing people "get anger at the mention of" is when people come to the Geotech forums and spread lies and other false information which is proven to be proven to be false.

Have you ever considered apologizing for the false information you spread here?
Have you considered that it is wrong to make false statements about people just because you don't like to hear them explain how your theories are wrong?
Did you ever consider that it is a lie to say you didn't call people stupid and liar when we can all read the words you typed where you did say these things?



Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

I use the MFD type equipment (Molecular Frequency Discriminator).

.

In fact it is not about "Molecular Frequency Discriminator", but Malicious Frequently Deceptionator.

[J_Player]

Mike,

I think that its OK to bring this up “Do some of the LRL`s on this forum work or do they not”

There are so many LRL projects posted hear “parts of this / bits of that” how confusing this all is.

The simple answer is we need two new threads as below-

1 - Working LRL`s with proof that they actually produce consistent results.

2 – Ongoing LRL projects undergoing tests and improvements.

Also what’s the idea behind posting a new LRL pistol or project, and then not telling anyone how it performs and operates in the field?

Playing the guessing game “dose it do this / dose it do that” this is all very childish, this is an open forum for the benefit of all who are dedicated to treasure hunting, metal detecting and the tools required to do the job.

Hi MIJ,
To answer your question,
Do some of the LRLs in this forum work or do they not?

And to give some insight why it is not possible to have what you need from the Geotech Remote Sensing forum:
1 - Working LRL`s with proof that they actually produce consistent results.
2 – Ongoing LRL projects undergoing tests and improvements.

It is not possible to post in the Remote Sensing forum a thread which has only a single working LRL with proof that it actually produces consistent results.
This has been tried many times.
Whenever someone attempts to do this, other LRL experimenters feel a need to hijack the thread and interject the details of a different LRL project instead of allowing people to discuss the topic of the thread.
This is a widespread tactic used by LRL experimenters to hijack threads in the Geotech Remote Sensing forum.
You can see a typical example of this tactic in Esteban's Zahori project shown here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11674

If you follow the Zahori thread from the beginning, you will see it was all about the Zahori LRL which Esteban introduced to show his version of a 50/60 Hz filtered detector.
The thread was complete with schematics and construction details.
We even see people build the project, then make tests and report back the results.

... but before you get 1/4 of the way through the thread at post 133, you see other LRL experimenters do not want people to hear results from this Zahori project.
They want Esteban and other experimenters in this project to stop talking about the Zahori so nobody can read any further developments with this circuit.
They decided they must flood this thread with their own projects so they can divert readers away from the Zahori circuit that they came to read about.

But Esteban quickly intervened to get back on the topic of the Zahori circuit.
By post 151, we see Esteban is successful at returning the focus to his Zahori project.
And the thread continues discussing the Zahori until we see other LRL experimenters make their second attempt to hijack the Zahori thread at post 253.

This time they are successful at ending the discussion of Esteban's modifications to the 50/60 Hz filtered Zahori detector.
They accomplished their hijacking by interjecting a simple charge detector circuit which I designed.
Then they re-named it as the "mini zahori" so nobody would notice that they switched from the Esteban's circuit to the plain charge detecting circuit which I designed.

This turned out to be a good tactic to hijack the Zahori thread.
Not even the administrators noticed the switch because they re-named my charge detector circuit to "mini zahori" so readers think they are still reading about the Zahori.
Their tactic worked well to give them bragging rights to show off their locator.
But it served to confuse all the readers who are trying to learn about these circuits and projects.

From that point onward we have been reading details about how to modify my charge detector to hunt for buried treasures, not the Zahori circuit.
Once the thread was hijacked, it was open season to add in whatever kind of treasure hunting circuit you want.
We see where attention is diverted even to an antique Heathkit metal detector that was modified for long range hunting at post 628 to 631 in the Zahori thread.
This is followed with various charge detector schemes, none of which have the characteristic 50/60 Hz unloading filter feature that we find in the true Zahori circuit.

This example of hijacking Zahori thread is only one of many we see in the Remote Sensing forum.
I could show many other examples in similar detail if there was a reason to.
It shows clearly why it is not possible for anyone to post a thread for only one single LRL project that people can read about and experiment with.
As long as there are other LRL experimenters who set out to destroy any discussion of a particular LRL, we will find many unrelated projects brought in to confuse any project discussion.
This tactic serves well to make it impossible to find the information about the topic you want to read about.
For example, if you want to learn about the Zahori, you need to know ahead of time to stop reading at post 253, or you will become confused to think my charge detector circuit which behaves much differently is the Zahori circuit that Esteban was talking about.
You will need to know that nothing after post 253 is about the Zahori circuit at all before you set out to build the Zahori.

And you will also need to know this if you are reading about negative ion detectors here http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11392 ...
You will need to know that there is a continuation with more modifications to these charge detectors to read about.
But you will need to look in the Zahori thread, beginning with post 253 to find the continuation of the charge detector modificatioins.

Maybe this explains why it is not possible to post a single thread about a single LRL project in the Geotech Remote Sensing forum.


Best wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

...Also what’s the idea behind posting a new LRL pistol or project, and then not telling anyone how it performs and operates in the field?

Playing the guessing game “dose it do this / dose it do that” this is all very childish, this is an open forum for the benefit of all who are dedicated to treasure hunting, metal detecting and the tools required to do the job.

The idea of posting a new LRL pistol or project without telling anyone how it performs has its roots with LRL salesmen.
The newer pistols and projects here are not commercial units.
But the idea of secrecy started with old-timer LRL dealers who refuse to provide any public demonstrations of the equipment they sell such as Dell Winders.
The idea behind this practice was to prevent people from making objective tests to see exactly how well their equipment performs.
In Dell's case, he had the experience of demonstrating his LRL in 1987 live for Randi to show how well he could locate coins he hid at the beach.
He failed miserably, and did not win the Randi prize.
Rather than answering Randi's offers for a re-test to show how well he can locate treasures, Dell calls him names.
See here:

http://www.randi.org/jr/200511/111805setback.html#i9

http://www.randi.org/jr/200511/112505psychich.html#i5

Dell still refuses to show any public demonstrations of the equipment he sells.
Dell's idea behind not telling what the LRLs he sells will do is to prevent people from suing him for selling non-working equipment.
You can see even on his web page he does not say what his equipment actually does.
He only talks about the ease of use, and and treasure hunting applications where they can be used.
But he never says how far any specific product will detect a particular hidden treasure.
The only claim Dekk makes is "At the moment I really don't know the extent of it's capabilities, or of it's limitations".
See here: http://www.omnitron.net/del_prod.htm
Certainly nobody can sue him if it doesn't work.

As with Dell's case, other LRL manufacturers and salesmen have historically refused to submit their equipment to objective testing that will determine how well it works.
They only offer testimonials and anecdotal stories which are designed to convince you to send them money to buy their equipment.

But we have two other classes of LRLs found in the Remote Sensing forum which are projects that are not for sale commercially.
We can class these as follows:
1. MFD "swiveling rod" style LRLs used in combination with signal generators.
2. Fully electronic hand-held pistol type locators which have no swiveling mechanism.

The MFD style locators have never been demonstrated live to show objective tests for various reasons (excuses) given by the people who use them.
This is the kind which Mike(Mont) claims he finds hidden treasures with.
Mike also refuses to demonstrate his MFD unless you pay him $2500, with no guarantee that he will be successful.
All other users of this kind of LRL have their own reasons (excuses) why they can't demonstrate them working successfully.
They will give various reasons why their MFD locators cannot pass an objective tests which is administered by a competent engineer such as Carl-NC to determine if they work or not.

The final remaining class of experimental locators have no swiveling mechanism.
These are usually portable hand-held units that beep or turn on lights to indicate which direction the treasure is located.

This is the kind of locator we see in the Ivconic's negative ion detector, and in the Zahori thread, the gold gun, and many other topics which Esteban showed for his experimental projects.
Certainly Esteban was the most prolific experimenter ever to post in the Geotech Remote Sensing forum, and he does tell us about detection abilities of his LRLs.
However, he does not tell the whole story.
For example, we see where he says "X project" detected a coin buried 10cm deep from 30 meters.
But he does not tell the details that this was a day which was exceptionally clear from radio noise and good atmospheric conditions for detection which allowed the locator to outperform the usual 2 meter distance.
Or perhaps he does not mention the secret wiring he added to the antenna.
And certainly he did not show any schematic that will allow others to build this circuit.
The only complete circuit Esteban has posted is the Zahori circuit.

Why?
Because most of his circuits contain trade secrets which he learned from his cousin who designs LRLs for Mineoro.
From what we have seen these Mineoro circuits are not patentable, because they have been copied from other designers, mostly engineers from the USA.
The only proprietary feature to the Mineoro LRLs I have seen is the way certain parts of the circuit are arranged and tuned.
It appears the trade secrets are in the placement of concealed parts which seem to serve no purpose, and in some critical tuning that an experimenter would not know how to do unless someone explained it to them in precise detail.
These are the secrets that Esteban never talked about.
And this is the reason Alonso and Damasio from the Mineoro factory felt confident that nobody could successfully reverse-engineer their locators.

So why was Esteban posting these experimental LRLs that he and his cousin built, if he was not going to show us how to make a working LRL?
The only reason that comes to mind is for glory.
Think about it...
Alonso knows he cannot patent circuits which were designed by other engineers.
And he is not willing to patent his tuning methods.
He most likely looked into it and discovered there are plenty of detector companies who would find a way to design around his methods and arrive at the same results without infringing on his claims.
But he had a bigger problem:
He and his partner Damasio did not know what signal they were detecting.
They only knew how to build an apparatus that gets a response.
Since they did not know what signal they were detecting, they were not able to electronically optimize it and improve it.
They were left with trial and error experimentation to see how they could get their best results.
This is why we see strange silver and gold samples in their crude antennas, and random beeping.
And this is also why we hear strange pseudoscience to explain why the detection limits fall in an elliptical pattern.
If they really knew what they were actually detecting, we would hear none of this BS about gold ions floating in the air, or static electricity acting as an antenna.
They also know very well that a competent engineering firm might actually discover the signal which causes beeping when treasure is in range.
Then these engineers could make circuit modifications to optimize the performance.
They know that a fully electronic circuit with some advanced signal processing methods can outperform anything they were able to devise, without using strange "ion chambers" or "samples" in their antennas.
So it was to their advantage to hide their crude detection methods as trade secrets, and publish some pseudoscience BS to lead everyone on the wrong path.
As long as the pseudoscience sounds plausible to ignorant treasure hunters, and the engineers laugh and ignore it, their secret is safe.

But why was Esteban posting these experimental LRLs that he and his cousin built, if he was not going to show us how to make a working LRL?
The only reason that comes to mind is for glory.
Think about it...
Alonso knows he cannot patent circuits which were designed by other engineers.
And he is not willing to disclose to the public his tuning methods.
Since he does not know how to further improve his locators, he will never become rich or famous.
But if Esteban posts pictures of his experimental locators and convinces everyone he is a genius, then at least he will get some glory from it.
You can see his motive is not to show other treasure hunters how to build working treasure hunting projects, but to bring glory to his cousin Alonso and to himself.

We see other LRL experimenters from around the world apparently have the same motive.
They have no problem to destroy Esteban's only complete LRL project by hijacking it to show their project is better.
But you will see they do not post the full details for a really good working LRL project for experimenters to build.
We see a lot of LRL projects with claims of really good detection, but without any credible evidence to demonstrate it working.
Or we see a few complete projects which seem pretty Mickey Mouse style, and not working well by the people who build them.
Do you suppose the people who post these LRLs developed a taste for glory after watching what Esteban did?


Best wishes,
J_P