Your feedback wanted on dowsing.

[okantex]

hi carl

why do not you fill your rods with negative ions?when a person holds it with bare hand (there must not be holding pipes on it (because it is nonconductive))static electricity flows to end of rods.one of static electric rules.
and Cu in soil is positive +2 (inner parts of matterial does not oxidies ,outer is notr)
why not to cross?
is this a good puzzle?

[J_Player]

Dowsing is one of the least understood phenomena in treasure hunting. I am an engineer who thought it was a bunch of bunk until I made a search to find the most promising methods of finding treasure. I still believe a lot of the lore about dowsing is bunk, but the practice of dowsing does work for some people. It seems that some people are better able to dowse and discriminate what they have located than others.

During my search for a way to locate gold, I came across a book called "the divining hand" http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/092...72136?n=283155 , which had some very revealing information about the technical details of dowsing. This book also has a chapter about a German rocket scientist who built an electronic machine that works on the same principle that dowsers use. When I contacted the inventor of this machine, he demonstrated it, and he also showed me his own dowsing rods, which were identical to yours, except no gold soldered on the ends. He made them himself from copper wire and wooden dowels drilled through in the middle. He told me he used them as backup in cases whern his machine was malfunctioning.

The principle he described is the same as what is explained in the book "The Divining Hand". He says there are weak traces of gamma radiation that come up from the earth's surface. Where there is an anomoly such as a stream of water, a cave, an ore deposit or other object that is dissimilar to the surrounding earth, these gamma emanations are concentrated at the edges. ie: at the edges of an underground stream, there is a wall of concentrated gamma energy rising up in a vertical plane. Some people are more sensitive to these areas of strong gamma energy. According to the theeory, these emanations cause a sensitive person's muscles to twitch, and their heaert beat to increase. This in turn causes the muscles in the arms to tighten and make the rods tilt. There may be some component of autosuggestion involved, but according to the theory, this principle of tightening muscles works in locations where the dowser does not know what is under the ground. It should be also noted that in areas where there is strong gamma energy emanating up from the ground, it is considered very unhealthy to spend a lot of time there, as these areas are where researchers have found very high incidence of diseases and people feeling generally uncomfortable (this means you dont want your bed to be located over a place where 3 underground streams cross).

Here is a web page that explains some of the details in a little more depth, based mostly on the information from the book "The Divining Hand": http://www.sunherb.com/geopathic_stress.htm

All of what I described above is theory, and has no basis in fact, except the data that was collected by researchers, and the machine that the German scientist built on this principle, which can locate gold under the earth. I describe this machine in more detail in a neighboring forum: http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/s...d.php4?t=11342

Hope my reply helped.

[Jim]

Why do you suppose this “phenomena” only affects the arm muscles? In theory, this “phenomena” could cause the leg muscles to tighten, and cause one to walk around in circles, or possibly make the eye muscles tighten to the point of seeing cross-eyed.

Utilizing the theory you have presented us with, everyone living within a quarter-mile of buried treasure would be walking around in circles, cross-eyed.

Jim

[Qiaozhi]

Dowsing Phenomenon

If you type "dowsing" in the google search engine, the first hit is a site called http://www.mystical-www.co.uk/dowsing.htm - not exactly what you might call "scientific".

According to this site "dowsing" is scientifically known as radioesthesia, and is the interaction of the mind of the dowser and the energy of the object of interest.

There is even a masters course in Radioesthesia, put on by the American Society of Dowsers, of Danville, Connecticut. Plus a reference to specialized training in intuitive detection, and the method of psychometry.

Following this intriguing piece of information, I then found that in parapsychology, psychometry is a psi (or psychic) ability in which the user is able to relate details about the past condition of an object or area, usually by being in close contact with it.

My goodness! There's a whole new world out there I've heard about!

[J_Player]

A FEW ANSWERS

"Why Why do you suppose this “phenomena” only affects the arm muscles?"

It is my understanding that the phenomenon does not affect only the arm muscles. When a sensitive person passes over an area of higher-than-average gamma radiation, his whole body is stressed, and there are probably numerous muscles tensing as a stress reaction. But the rods in his hands tend to amplify the small movement of the hands to make it more easily discernable. According to the theories, this stress reaction occurs because these are generally harmful emmisions coming from the earth, and I suppose this is a natural response, much like muscles tensing when you get too close to a fire. I read that there are metals that can act as a shield so the dowser is no longer affected by the emanations from the ground. Read "The Divining hand" for lots of details about this, as well as objects above the ground that tend to concentrate and re-direct these emmisions.

I know very little about radiosthesia, map dowsing and that sort of thing. It may have some scientific basis in fact, but I can't imagine what basis. What I do know is what Dr. Bickel taught me when he described how his long distance locating machine worked. I have to believe him to some degree, because his machines are in the satellites that NASA uses to map the earth's mineral deposits.

[Bojidar]

That realy work

Hi foxs ) Thit "unit" realy work,but only for find underground water streams!
Two sticks are made from Cu wire.Man must to have strong bio-field,in other case don't work!I use it to find water before dig well.

[Elie]

What I do know is what Dr. Bickel taught me when he described how his long distance locating machine worked.

So tell us what Dr. Bickel taught you.

[J_Player]

He taught me about the nature of matter and how gold and other elements came to be formed from the stage of a nebula to the solid materials under the surface of the earth. He told me from the point of view of a German astrophysicist what characteristics we can expect to find in the minerals under the earth. He went into some detail about radioisotopes and sub-atomic particles and energies. From there he explained how his long range locating machine worked. The explanation I posted in the forum is a simplified version of what his LRL machines measured. They did detect the presence of gamma radiation, but they did a lot more. His detectors were fitted with small computers that performed the function of gamma spectroscopy in conjunction with the sensor to identify what elements the probe was picking up. This was at a time before desktop computers were common. Most of the sampling circuitry was analog, with a digital section that did the computing. He also taught me the difference between what his machine was measuring and what dowsers are sensing when they "locate anomolies" in the ground. According to Dr. Bickel, the dowsers are not (in his opinion) sensing gamma radiation directly, but the effects it has on a number of naturally occurring fields that can be sensed on the surface of the earth. He explained the effects of underground streams in masking other anomolies below them, and how many of these naturally occuring fields are concentrated around the edges of an underground stream or other anomaly. He also explained that these naturally occuring fields are greatly influenced by physical objects aboove the ground (buildings, cars, etc.) as well as space energies (sunspots, ionosphere, cosmic radiation activities, etc.)

From what he taught me I concluded there is no simple science to dowsing, and if a person wanted to have a good grasp on how it works, then he would be well advised to learn more about the geophysics involved. For those who are not scientifically inclined, I would suggest that if they are sensitive to these fiields, they can still become quite sucessful at dowsing as long as they keep in mind that their results are not always repeatable, and subject to variations in the fields around them. Also I would caution that when they get a reaction in their dowsing instrument, they have no real way to know what exactly is causing that reaction until they excavate and find out for themselves. Perhaps it is not even something from below the ground.

The electronic machine that Dr. Bickel built was not subject to the natural fields at the surface of the earth nearly so much as a dowser is, because his machine was measuring gamma waves, not the fields they traveled through. Dr. Bickel was also a dowser, but he did not use any LRL dowsing machines. He preferred a simple pair of L rods he made from wire and 2 dowels.

If you want to know more of what Dr. Bickel taught me, you can read "The Divining Hand". It is a dated book, but the theories and explanations in that book are in fairly good agreement with what Dr. Bickel told me.

[Alexismex]

Hello forum,
Thank you J player for your explanation, many years ago i look for some info on the Dr.Bikel and now I know you who know personaly him , very interesting ... I read the book 15 years ago also very good book on the subject of radiesthesia ....to all the people who are saying : dowser is a joke I recommend always this book .In the internet you can see professional gamma ray geophysical analyser but it is very difficult to understand exactly How it work , the specification are very difficult to understand for a non geophysical man....but the question is :
These gamma detectors can detect gold ore at some distance in the soil for exemple 1 or 2 meters ???? I did not know and for the Bikel apparatus he tell in the book seven meters away but he did not say HOW DEEP ????
see: http://www.llnl.gov/str/September03/Becker.html
And for the mineoro : no-comments........
Alex

[J_Player]

Hahahahaaa...

I asked Dr. Bickel that same question. He put his 2 oz gold nugget on the ground and it did not register on his machine. I can tell you his machine is not good for finding a gold coin 2 meters away. It is best used to locate large gold or other ore deposits under the earth that is measured by the tons. By placing the gold a few meters from the machine, the gamma energy does not increase to a noticable amount because the machine is sensing gamma waves very deep under the ground in a cone-shaped pattern. The nugget is only one small part of the tons if materials that the machine sees. What the machine can see the most easily is when a large deposit of mineral is below the ground. This machine is best used when flying in a grid pattern over a large area of earth, then look at the areas of the land that gave higher readings. This is where you will likely find ore deposits. It is also good to have an understanding of how the anomolies under the ground can interfere with the reading so you know to compensate for bodies of underground water etc when looking for gold or oil or other minerals.

If this machine could be used as a nugget locator, then those who owned the machine would all be rich.

[J_Player]

Your link shows a gamma/photon sensing device that will discriminate what the different elements it is looking at. This is exactly how Dr. Bickel's machine worked. He was a pioneer in this field. I havent really elaborated on the details of Dr. Bickels machine. Ok... here is how the machine that Dr. Bickel built works:

The sensor contains a special crystal that is sensative to gamma waves, called a scintillator. His scintillator crystals are not the average type used for medical instruments. They are extremely sensitive and not generally available to the industrial/commercial users. Because of his work with NASA, he had a direct link with the suppliers who sold him some of these crystals to use in his machines for locating oil fields and mineral deposits.

How his machine worked? When a gamma wave passes into the crytstal, a very small light (a photon) is emmited. The energy of the gamma wave will determine the characteristics of the light, or the photon energy. By measuring the light that is emitted with a photomultiplier tube, the energy of the gamma wave can be determined. This energy can be compared to a known list of energies that will tell where the isotope that sent the gamma wave came from. This is a simplified version of the actual method, but the electronics are able to identify exactly what element is below the probe that sent the gamma waves. By looking at the enery in the photons before they disintigrate into positrons, the exact element that sent the gamma wave and caused the photon can be determined as accurately as a fingerprint can be measured. These gamma waves come from a very few radio isotopes of that element that exist in the natural deposits under the earth. It is only when there is a large deposit of an element that we will see a large reading on the probe. When we are looking for gold, it does not matter if the gold is in a solid metal form, or a telluride or sulfide. Any compound of gold or matallic gold will send gamma waves from the very few traces of gold isotopes. What the machine is looking for is an area of the earth that shows a relatively larger concentration of gold (or other element) than the surrounding areas. It is looking for an area that has a heavy deposit of a mineral. This is what the detecror does best. It is not able to find a small coin or nugget in the near proximity. it is specialized in sensing trace anounts of gamma rays from large deposits of minerals.

This machine can sense the gamma waves from isotopes of other elements like silver, copper and carbon (oil). By comparing the light energy sensed to the known energies of isotopes of these elements, the element can be identified. This is how the discrimination is accomplished. This method is known as gamma spectroscopy. It is commonnly used in the laboratory to identify unknown substances which have been irradiated to caues the substance to emit gamma waves. The difference with Dr. Bickel's machine that it senses gammma waves in very small amounts, which came from naturally occuring isotopes, not from pounding the target with a high dose of radiation. This is why the sensor in his machine must be of the highest quality and extremely sensitive to these faint gamma waves. The advantage of Dr. Bickel's LRL over the conventional LRLs is that it will work even when there is heavy sunspot activity and the conventional LRLs are not able to get a signal from the near ground fields. Dr. Bickel's sensors are not dependent on these fields because he is measuring the gamma waves, not the fields near the surface of the earth. If you check with the oil companies and mining companies you will find that Dr. Bickels detectors are very highly respected. These companies pay a premium price to have a survey done whith his machines.

Before ending this discussion, I shoud tell you that Dr. Bickel was a very nice man. He had a heavy German accent and white hair, and he was very accommodating. He showed me a handful of gold nuggets he found on his expeditions making surveys for the oil companies. He showed me several other projects he was working on including a 2-cylinder aluminum hydrogen-fueled engine. All this happened when he was in his 80's, and he was still lecturing to the NASA scientists and others in his spare time when not looking for oil and gold.

Dang, I hope I am that active in my 80s

[Alexismex]

Thank you J player for your answer , now I have a main vision of the Dr. Bikel detector , I understand it is geophysical , yes with ton of mineral ....OK Thanks again
Alex

[Alexismex]

Hello J.Player, very good explanation of the gamma ray detector , I print it to show to my friends and thank you again for your time and amability to explain well .
Another question , do you really believe in this full of farse publicity like the famous KOCHRAN , for the mineoro ......of some infamous selling people...
I hope to have in my hand one off these to show the kind of machine is this , one of these day and complete reverse ing..with photos....for the Forum
many people here in Mexico was trapped in internet and pay cash these funny detector for to find NOTHING , not gold not silver not a small piece of iron.... nothing only the big laughing of Mineoro "inventor"....with the cash in his pocket.....Ah...Ah...Ah...
Have a nice day J.player ,
Alex.

[J_Player]

I have never seen anyone find gold using a LRL like the Mineoro. If they work then I know nothing about it. My understanding is that they work exactly as well as dowsing. But I may be wrong.

If I had $8000 to spend on a Mineoro deteector, then I would spend the money on an Eric Foster Goldscan 5 PI detector instead, and I would spen the remaining money traveling from Arizona to Mexico looking for nuggets and buried treasures.

[Alexismex]

Hello J.player,
One 100% thinking the same for the 8000$ and like I said when I have one (mineoro ) in my hand I will do the work I think soon....
And for the phenomenum of Radiesthesia For me it exist , I know a very good dowser who discover water very deep 80-200 meters with accuracy in difficult soil where water is difficult to find with traditional geophysical instruments ....he say me for water is easy for him but for something without movement he do not have result ( metal treasure etc...) ...it is physical a flux of water generate a flux of something this something detected by the dowser....
Have a good day
Saludos Alex