Something strange!

[kostas87]

Hello everyone!
** Something strange!

* Could someone tell me why a lrl can catch Surface plastic thing;
Know someone that field;
what could make the lrl me to see something like this;
Any opinion would be accept ..
THANKS!

[J_Player]

Hello everyone!
** Something strange!

* Could someone tell me why a lrl can catch Surface plastic thing;
Know someone that field;
what could make the lrl me to see something like this;
Any opinion would be accept ..
THANKS!

The field detected from plastic is usually an electric field.
Zahori LRL is an electric charge detector.
If you have plastic which holds an electric charge that is different than the surrounding electric charge, then the zahori LRL can detect it.
You will see that you can make the electric charge increase on plastic objects by rubbing on them.
After you finish rubbing on the plastic, the electric charge can be greater, and you will be able to detect it better with a zahori LRL.

Best wishes,
J_P

[kostas87]

The field detected from plastic is usually an electric field.
Zahori LRL is an electric charge detector.
If you have plastic which holds an electric charge that is different than the surrounding electric charge, then the zahori LRL can detect it.
You will see that you can make the electric charge increase on plastic objects by rubbing on them.
After you finish rubbing on the plastic, the electric charge can be greater, and you will be able to detect it better with a zahori LRL.

Best wishes,
J_P

ι do not have the zachori.
What is mentioned is my own construction, and playing in the fields with it, I found these plastic things on the surface everywhere!
I do not think electric charge, but do not know for sure.!
with the same device found several metals ago
But with a little change sees plastic!
Thanks for your answer!

[J_Player]

ι do not have the zachori.
What is mentioned is my own construction, and playing in the fields with it, I found these plastic things on the surface everywhere!
I do not think electric charge, but do not know for sure.!
with the same device found several metals ago
But with a little change sees plastic!
Thanks for your answer!

I doubt that anyone can determine what field your LRL is detecting from plastic unless they first know what is the construction of your LRL, so they can determine what kinds of fields this design can detect.


Best Wishes,
J_P

[Morgan]

I doubt that anyone can determine what field your LRL is detecting from plastic unless they first know what is the construction of your LRL, so they can determine what kinds of fields this design can detect.


Best Wishes,
J_P

Thats not new ,with my Mineoro DC2006 i remember to locate many ionized plastics meters away. The fact that the plastics stay on the ground surface colect static energy and the LRL pick them all.

[kostas87]

Finding plastic things on the ground with this device, the first thought goes to the statistical burden.
But what happens when the plastic ones hanging on the branch of a tree, you can not see;
And when you leave this again on the ground appears again;
I think there is some action on the soil surface, and plays with it.!

[J_Player]

Finding plastic things on the ground with this device, the first thought goes to the statistical burden.
But what happens when the plastic ones hanging on the branch of a tree, you can not see;
And when you leave this again on the ground appears again;
I think there is some action on the soil surface, and plays with it.!

Hi Kostas,
You have already been given the answer.
Plastic can create an electric field.
Plastic cannot create a magnetic field.
Plastic cannot transmit radio broadcasts to receive on a receiver.
The only field which we can detect coming from plastic is electric field.

The electric field which plastic can create comes from conduction or from friction.
You can expect an electric field from the atmosphere or from wind friction, or from dust or sand particles brushing against the plastic can change the charge of a piece of plastic.
Also rain or water droplets or any other material impinging on plastic can change the charge of a piece of plastic.
Any of these conditions found in nature can cause the electric field found at a piece of plastic to change to a different charge at a different time.

For what reason do you look for a different signal than changing electric charges from plastic?

Best Wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

Also rain or water droplets or any other material impinging on plastic can change the charge of a piece of plastic.

And ... just in case anyone doesn't believe that water droplets can transfer charge, try reading the book "Homemade Lightning - Creative Experiments in Electricity" by R.A. Ford.
ISBN 0-07-021528-6

This is a fascinating book that describes how to build your own Wimshurst and Van de Graaff generators and other creative, hands-on electrostatics projects.
In chapter 5 (Unusual Generator Designs) Kelvin's Waterdrop Generator (from 1867) is described, with a general plan of how to build your own. It can generate up to 15,000 volts by simply using falling drops of water.

I have the second edition, but it appears there is now a 3rd edition available on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Homemade-Lightning-Experiments-Electricity-Electronics/dp/0071373233/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1352897280&sr=8-2

[kostas87]

Hi Kostas,
You have already been given the answer.
Plastic can create an electric field.
Plastic cannot create a magnetic field.
Plastic cannot transmit radio broadcasts to receive on a receiver.
The only field which we can detect coming from plastic is electric field.

The electric field which plastic can create comes from conduction or from friction.
You can expect an electric field from the atmosphere or from wind friction, or from dust or sand particles brushing against the plastic can change the charge of a piece of plastic.
Also rain or water droplets or any other material impinging on plastic can change the charge of a piece of plastic.
Any of these conditions found in nature can cause the electric field found at a piece of plastic to change to a different charge at a different time.

For what reason do you look for a different signal than changing electric charges from plastic?

Best Wishes,
J_P

hi j_p!
I can not tell you why I wonder about this, my English is so bad!
I believe the strength we see a device lrl is neither statistical burden, nor magnetic fields .. If that were so the solution would be simple!
think someone different fields there not moderate!

Best Wishes!

[J_Player]

hi j_p!
I can not tell you why I wonder about this, my English is so bad!
I believe the strength we see a device lrl is neither statistical burden, nor magnetic fields .. If that were so the solution would be simple!
think someone different fields there not moderate!

Best Wishes!

Hi Hostas,
This is where you make your mistake.
The only physical fields we can detect in nature are force field, electric field, and magnetic field.

In the case of force field, any object can develop a force field, which is transferred to the object by interaction with kinetic or potential energy. As an example, a sail may be blown by the wind, then the energy in the wind will be transferred to the sail to create a force which can be measured where the sail is attached to a boat. The actual force field is located at the surface of the sail fabric, and adds to all the forces on the neighboring areas of the sail surface. This force field located at the sail surface is then transferred to the cables which are tied to the corners of the sail, and balance the force field to prevent the sail from moving into the wind. instead of the sail blowing away, the boat is caused to move as a result of the force field in the sail fabric, which is caused by the wind acting on the sail.
As a treasure hunter you will encounter force fields if you see a tree fall over. Gravity exerts a force field on all the mass of the tree. And the same force on your own body due to gravity is very helpful to prevent you from blowing away in the wind.

A second field is electric field which is an invisible field that develops when the electric charge of an object is different than the charge of the environment surrounding the object.
When an electric field exists on an object, we can expect there will be an electric potential, or voltage which seeks to balance the charge of the object with the charge of the environment which surrounds it. If the object should find a way to balance it's charge to become the same as the surrounding charge, then we say the charge has been neutralized, or the object has discharged. At this time we will no longer be able to measure an electric field, because the unbalanced charge condition no longer exists.
However, at the time when this unbalanced charge does exist and we can measure an electric field, then a force field can also develop due to the electric field. This is the reason why we see small plastic foam objects can sometimes move upward against the opposite force of gravity if the electric field becomes strong enough. But in order for this to happen, the unbalanced electric field must be polarized in a particular direction, rather than simply a charged object surrounded on all sides by an equally unbalanced charge. This polarized unbalanced charge is responsible for how we observe the vector components of the force field due to electric charge.

Magnetic field is similar to the electric field in the manner which it can cause a resultant force field in some objects. But the laws which govern the forces from magnetic fields are a bit different than the laws for electric fields.
After we look at these three kinds of fields, we have no more physical field types which we can measure with instruments. What remains are combinations of electric, magnetic, and force fields working together to create patterns which we can detect and measure.

For example, the well-known electromagnetic waves are a phenomenon observed where we find an interaction of electric and magnetic fields. But the manner in which we detect electromagnetic waves will change depending on many details about the electric and magnetic fields. Frequency of the waves will determine what instrument can detect this energy. For some frequencies, we can use light sensors, while others will require tuned coils or various shapes of metal antennas to detect. Some other electromagnetic frequencies can be detected by thermometers, or other instruments designed to measure these waves.

The interaction of force fields with magnetic fields, or with electric fields can also be responsible for creating electromagnetic waves of various kinds, depending on what kind of forces are acting and at what strength the field is for an object, and how fast the fields change at the object. For example, a magnet rotating on a shaft will broadcast electromagnetic waves from the magnet. This will be a very inefficient transmitter, but some amount of electromagnetic waves will be sent out into the air where the broadcast can be detected by an instrument suitable to measure that particular kind of electromagnetic wave.

There are many other odd examples as above which can show how signals can be made to emit from various objects found in nature. But the fact is there are only three kinds of physical field which we normally detect in the physical world. All of the other things we call radio, light, sound, etc. are simply patterns made from combinations of the three basic fields. Yet, these patterns such as modulated sounds and various kinds of modulated electromagnetic waves are what we usually are most interested in, because they are easier to discriminate, and can be used for transmitting information, as well as converting energy.

Now, where you are wrong...
The mysterious signals which come from objects which are on the ground or buried do not usually originate in the object unless one of these basic fields is unbalanced in the object.
ie: Very high charge on a capacitor sitting on the ground can kill a person if the capacitor is large enough. And it can send a signal which you can certainly detect at long range if you discharge the capacitor by shorting it. Same for an extremely strong magnet. If you have a few kg of rare earth magnet buried 5 cm below the ground, then you can detect it with a magnetometer from more distance than you can detect a piece of iron which is the same size.

But these buried objects generally do not generate patterns, such as electromagnetic waves of any measurable strength. The reason is because they have no power source to generate electromagnetic waves of any detectable strength. For example, suppose you wanted a piece of iron to send EM waves which are detectable as light from a distance. You could do this by holding a flame to the iron until it became hot enough to glow. Then you would be able to detect a light frequency in the red-yellow range emitted from the iron from a distance. But the iron does not have enough energy to send these light waves unless you add energy to the iron. The same is true for electromagnetic waves at tunable radio frequencies, or at audio frequencies and up past gamma frequencies.
So what are the strange signals which might originate at the site of a buried treasure?

These signals are usually signals from man-made sources, or sometimes from natural forces which include:
lightning - causes electronic currents to rush under the ground, and electronic noise in the air.
Friction from wind and rain... can cause electronic noises in the air and can charge objects.
Power generating stations - Can broadcast 50/60 Hz into the air and ground, can cause currents to flow from the ground into buildings.
radio, microwaves, radar, military broadcasts - most of the tunable RF in the air.
Intentional energy sent to an object - metal detector, ground probing radar, VLF surveying, etc.
Nuclear decay of materials - Particles and gamma waves from decaying materials travel through the ground and air to collide with objects.
Cosmic rays - Travel through the ground and air.

These are only some of the sources of measurable signals. These noises have no reason to congregate where a treasure is buried, or on a piece of plastic which is causing you problems. But objects which are buried, or lying on the surface of the ground can be influenced by some of these sources of stray noise signals. For plastic, it seems doubtful any of the weaker external electromagnetic signals would focus to make the plastic detectable. But the force of the wind or the rain impinging on plastic is expected to impart a charge imbalance to the plastic.

However, your biggest problem is you never bothered to find out what exactly your LRL is detecting. You can only guess and ask questions which cannot be answered, because nobody knows what your locator detects... Not even you.

Now we have an easy experiment which we can perform to test and see if it is a simple electric charge which you are detecting from the plastic.
You can drive a metal stake into the ground to a depth of 1/2 meter, and leave the top exposed above the ground. Pour water on the ground at the stake, so the ground will be wet where it contacts the stake. Then connect a copper wire to the stake by solder, or by a strong clamp which makes a good electrical connection.
When the stake is ready, you can get a piece of plastic which is causing your signal. Cover the plastic with a metal mesh, like a metal screen, to cover the plastic on all sides. Then connect the copper wire to the screen, and put the plastic on the ground.

Now you can check to see if you can still detect the plastic when it has the screen covering it. The electric charge will be gone, so the plastic will have the same charge as the ground.

Then remove the screen and test again to see if you can detect the plastic with no screen covering it. With this experiment, at least you can find some evidence to tell if your locator machine is detecting electric charge.


Best Wishes,
J_P

[kostas87]

hello j _p!

everything you write is very nice and thanks for your help!

the lrl is so difficult to function, sometimes we do not know what to think of to explain the situation, and yet most difficult to discover a new situation!
your test with the metal mesh was negative, the plastic can detect!
Ths!

[kostas87]

Thats not new ,with my Mineoro DC2006 i remember to locate many ionized plastics meters away. The fact that the plastics stay on the ground surface colect static energy and the LRL pick them all.

hi morgan!
you want to say and metals have some static energy;
This is the phenomenon are looking for, the static energy that creates the extra metal in nature;

[WM6]

hi morgan!
you want to say and metals have some static energy;
This is the phenomenon are looking for, the static energy that creates the extra metal in nature;

Morgan didn't say "have", but "picked up", this is something different.

Due to different reason (par example due to ions in air flow), things in nature constantly collect and constantly lost electric charge. Practically all things, not metals only.

How big those electric charge in partial thing can go, depend on how well it is isolated from surrounding world. This mean, things in soil has in principle the same electric charge as surrounding world (soil).

No useful phenomena in soil.

This is why electric charge detector like Zahori are not capable to detect something buried in soil, but can detect piece of plastic in free air.