sniff out gold?

[grungymike]

This doesn't have anything to do with metal detectors, but a fellow river rat posed a question that got me to thinking, after I stopped laughing.

Pigs have been trained to sniff out truffles, dogs have been trained to sniff out buried bodies, has anyone ever tried to train a pig or dog or (?)
to sniff out gold nuggets?

gm

[Fred]

The question is not as crazy as it sounds,
But if gold is so stable i don´t think it has any odor.

[J_Player]

This is interesting...
The gold ring on your finger will not have any odour detectable by people. But if there is copper in the alloy, then the acids in your skin could dissolve some trace amount of the copper into an acid solution, which could in turn become airborne to some small degree where a dog could smell it. The dog would not e smelling gold, but copper. This doesn't seem too likely, but is theoretically possible for the sake of discussion.

But buried gold is not the same as gold in the air. Scientist have discovered that after gold is buried a long time, microbes can attack it by excreting tiny amounts of cyanide, which dissolve a trace amount of gold from the surface of a buried gold item. The scientists also discovered the trace amounts of gold ions will rise in the soil, migrating in a column to the surface, where they eventually become bound with other soil constituents within 10-30 cm of the surface. As the gold ions migrate upward over many years, they form a trail of trace amounts of gold ions suspended in sulfur complexes or organic acids that are chemically neutralized in this final 10-30 cm of the surface of the ground. This chemistry of buried gold dissolving and moving upward is well established by thousands of tests.

Now, considering these chemicals that are becoming neutralized near the surface (10-30cm), do you suppose it is possible some trace amounts of hydrogen cyanide gas is released into the air where the gold ions are rising above the treasure? Maybe the organic acids and sulfur complexes are releasing gases such as hydrogen sulfide in very trace amounts that a dog can smell. Could the combination of odours from these gold-related chemicals be a signature for buried gold that we can train a dog to locate?

After all... dogs and pigs have been trained to smelll the odours of organic activity where truffles are growing under the ground.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Don't sniff...

But if you have to do... at least inject that stuff!

Red nosed people are too easy to locate...

[grungymike]

yeah, right...

Been there, done that, outgrew it, but fun while it lasted.

gm

[Max]

[homefire]

This one has been hashed out a few time here.

Not so crazy.

Gold is the Noble metal and will not oxidize unless forced .

Will not corrode in any fashion unless forced.

How ever Indicator elements and associated mineral do produce detectable smells and flags.

Here in New Mexico, gold is associated with Iron and Quarts.

Iron produces a smell.

Even I can smell Iron Oxides.

Some Sulphide produce Gold, Silver.

I can smell the sulphur and do further testings.

I do think this could be used to the advantage.

[J_Player]

This one has been hashed out a few time here.

Not so crazy.

Gold is the Noble metal and will not oxidize unless forced .

Will not corrode in any fashion unless forced.

How ever Indicator elements and associated mineral do produce detectable smells and flags.

Here in New Mexico, gold is associated with Iron and Quarts.

Iron produces a smell.

Even I can smell Iron Oxides.

Some Sulphide produce Gold, Silver.

I can smell the sulphur and do further testings.

I do think this could be used to the advantage.

Hi homefire,
Gold may not oxidise in the manner of forming a "gold oxide crust". But it does dissolve naturally in the soil when conditions are favourable. The mechanism that forces it is found in bacteria and fungi which are native to the soil that gold is buried in. These microbes are found near the surface as well as over two miles deep in gold mines. Some of these microorganisms can also cause gold ions to precipitate as gold metal, which can grow into a gold nugget. According to geomicrobiologist Frank Reith, "...the precipitation of gold by micro-organisms, and thus in the biomineralisation of gold, which as recent evidence suggests has led to the formation of some of the world largest gold deposits."
But in addition to micro-organisms precipitating metallic gold, there are microbes that ionise and dissolve gold:
"In soils with high contents of organic matter heterotrophic bacteria and fungi appear to dominate the gold dissolution by excreting amino acids, low molecular weight organic acids (LMWOAs), cyanide or organic sulfur compounds. These molecules were shown to have the ability to dissolve native gold and act as complexing agents for the resulting gold ions."

Wet soil samples were incubated with these microbes, then gold pellets were added to the soil. After 20-30 days of incubation, up to 3 ppm of gold was found in solution, compared to none measurable in the sterilized soil samples with gold pellets. This incubated soil sample produced a higher gold ion concentration than is usually found in nature, but it proved the point that these naturally occurring microbes are dissolving gold in the soil.

For most gold that has been in the ground a long time, a collection of microbes dissolves traces of the gold using cyanide or organic acids that they secrete. These microbes are capable in surviving in places that are generally considered toxic to living things. The same microbes are also responsible for the formation of sulfur complexes that suspend the gold ions during their slow journey upward toward the ground surface. Scientists and technicians have actually measured the traces of gold ions from excavated soil and found that the trail of gold ions forms in a column above the buried gold metal, and by following the trail, you will be led to the underlying parent metal. The traces of dissolved gold ions follow a path from the buried metal to the surface of the ground, which can take the form of a column of soil that has an abnormally high concentration of gold ions.

What is interesting is that cyanide in the trace amounts found around these microbes is below the toxic level for higher animals. But it does have an odour similar to almonds that some people can smell, and dogs should be able to smell very well.

Also, it is documented that the gold ions become bound when they reach within 10-30 cm of the ground surface, and cease to be gold ions as they change to microscopic pieces of gold metal. Now considering they were suspended in sulfur complexes up until the point where they reached 10-30 cm of the ground surface, we can expect a resultant chemical change to the sulfur complex at the same time. Perhaps a very weak amount of hydrogen sulfide gas is released that can be smelled by a dog or a person. Or maybe some other aromas from organic sulfur compounds created by microbes can be smelled as they are evaporated from just below the surface.

But these are only the beginning of the story. The amount of biological/microbal activity in the soil is much more than what was thought in past decades. How many other organic acids and other compounds are produced as by-products of bacteria and fungi that dissolve gold? Can any of these be detected by their aroma? If fungi are involved in the chemistry, then we know that fungi produces spores with myotoxins, which may not be dangerous in small amounts, but usually have an odour. Here is an example of a fungus that was found to propagate near where gold is buried: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0523075914.htm

I wonder if a dog can smell where this fungus is growing?

If you want to read more about the microbal action around buried gold, there are also some references to scientists explaining the mechinisms that I previously put in posts in this thread: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13276

Best wishes,
J_P

[homefire]

Cool!

I was reading some place that they were working on a bacterial leaching system some place too.

[J_Player]

Cool!

I was reading some place that they were working on a bacterial leaching system some place too.

Hi homefire,
You are right. A lot of money was spent on biological research by mining companies. They are definitely studying bacterial leaching to extract metals from excavated dirt and rocks. But much larger amounts have been spent by government agencies who want to clean up toxic wastes. This is where the research really started. Scientists discovered these bacteria and other microbes that survive in toxic environments actually thrive on metals and other minerals that are considered non-digestible. These microbes derive their life energy from the chemical digestion of gold and other metals, while producing toxic metal salts in the process. Yet they don't die. In fact they multiply.

Governments want to exploit similar microbes that neutralise toxic wastes in order to clean up toxins that find their way ground water and soil, so they will convert them to harmless compounds. They even have microbes that like a radioactive environment, and derive some of their energy from decaying atoms they ingest. These are being studied to clean up nuclear wastes. There is a lot of interesting reading about this online. But for our purposes, we only need to focus on what can be smelled at the surface to lead us to the treasure.

As a side note, there is an instrument called "Sniffex" which is an electronic sensor for smelling chemicals in the air. It is an ingenious invention that can be more sensitive than a dog for detecting faint aromas in the air. But do not confuse the Sniffex with the fake "dowsing rod" style sniffex. What's interesting is the Sniffex instrument can be built fairly cheap in quantity. And if the specific airborne molecules you are trying to smell are known, then you can manufacture the Sniffex to identify them. Be sure to check my links to the sniffex in the post I made here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=20

Getting ideas?

Best wishes,
J_P

[grungymike]

uh oh...

I originally posted this query as a casual joke, but this is mind boggling.

I'm starting to envision something like the "gold spear", a gold sensing probe used much like a moisture meter for gardening. It's been around for a while, I remember reading about it 15 years ago.

Time for some more research and reading...

gm

[J_Player]

I originally posted this query as a casual joke, but this is mind boggling.

I'm starting to envision something like the "gold spear", a gold sensing probe used much like a moisture meter for gardening. It's been around for a while, I remember reading about it 15 years ago.

Time for some more research and reading...

gm

Yes, microbiology applied to geology has been a lagging field in the sciences.
It seems this field is just beginning to come of age since governments are putting so much money into it.

My favourite idea is the Sniffex approach because the sensors can be doped to detect just about any molecule you are searching for. Maybe if a sniffex sensor was located at the top of a pipe probe that is shoved into the ground, and a some air is circulated to the tip of the probe and back to the sniffex, you could grab a sample of some vapours from below the surface to test for "smell".

But don't expect instant results in the near future. There are a few technical hurdles to pass first. For one, you need to research to find what chemicals are in the soil around buried gold that whose vapours can be "smelled". This probably means a lot of research to find out what microbes usually congregate around buried gold, then to find out what by-products they produce that could be "smelled". Then you need to get a "smelling machine" that can identify the vapour you are looking for. This could be a dog or an electronic machine. But if you use a dog, you need to train him to recognise the smell you are looking for.

After finishing all this research and getting a "smelling" tool, you are still not guaranteed that the vapours you are searching for will be around a particular buried treasure. Suppose for some reason no gold-eating microbes decided to start a colony at a particular target. Or suppose there is some other bacteria present that destroys the chemicals you are looking to "smell" in the same area where the treasure is? Or suppose the treasure has not been buried long enough to develop a good size colony of gold-eating bacteria?

.... or what if there is no treasure buried in any of the places you hunt for it?

I think it is a case of probability, where you are wise to choose your sniffing target vapours as those which have a good record of being present near gold or whatever other treasure you are looking for. If you can get past all the technical hurdles, you may have some very good odds for finding treasure with a sniffing device.

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

Solution is here:

http://www.inhabitat.com/2009/11/12/nasa-unveils-chemical-sniffing-device-for-the-iphone/

and Iraqi version:

http://gizmodo.com/5396888/the-bomb+sniffing-gadget-thats-definitely-not-saving-iraq

using insects

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TCW-4S563MK-1&_user=1818001&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1109023235&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000054880&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=1818001&md5=f26f5a6a245c22091a5c683b3b469f33

or dogs

[WM6]

WASP detector handmade in 30 minutes

Drug&Bomb-Sniffing Wasps May Sting Crooks

Sneaky drug smugglers and terrorists may soon meet their match: a handheld chemical detector powered by trained wasps.
Dubbed the Wasp Hound, the prototype tool houses five parasitic wasps that react to the smells of explosives, illegal drugs, and plant diseases. In theory, the insects' movements set off an alarm to alert authorities.


"They are an incredibly versatile type of system. We've really just scratched the surface," said Glen Rains, a biological engineer at the University of Georgia, in Tifton, who co-invented the device.
Known for their keen sense of smell, parasitic wasps don't sting humans and are as small as flying ants.



Researchers believe the insects are nearly ideal for the task of sniffing out bombs. Unlike dogs, the wasps can be trained within 30 minutes and bred by the thousands, providing a near limitless supply.
Other scientists are working with honeybees, rats, and fish as chemical detectors.
The Wasp Hound, which is still under development, grew out of decades of study of Microplitis croceipes, a parasitic wasp species native to Georgia.
In the wild the wasps use their antennae to detect corn borer caterpillars, which the parasites use to hatch and grow their young.
The wasps lay single eggs in the caterpillars. As the young mature, they feed on their hosts, which eventually weaken and die.
Surprise Discovery
The Wasp Hound was co-invented by W. Joe Lewis, an expert on parasitic wasps who works as an entomologist with the USDA Agricultural Research Service in Tifton.
In the 1970s Lewis and his colleagues discovered that the wasps locate the caterpillars by detecting a chemical in their feces.

Pinpointing can be made by concentration of wasps on one part of bigger sensor.

How to trainee wasp (here used: Parasitic Wasp, Microplitis croceipes (Hymenoptera: Braconidae):

[WM6]

Detecting potencial of some animals

BEES

• Can see light between wavelengths 300 nm and 650 nm.
• Have chemoreceptors (taste receptors) on their jaws, forelimbs and antennae.
• Worker honey bees have 5,500 lenses ("ommatidia") in each eye.
• Worker honey bees have a ring of iron oxide ("magnetite") in their abdomens that may be used to detect magnetic fields. They may use this ability to detect changes in the earth's magnetic field and use it for navigation.
• Can see polarized light.

MOTH

• Noctuid Moth has a hearing range between 1,000 and 240,000 Hz.
• Emperor Moth can detect pheromones up to 5 km. distant.
• Silkworm Moth can detect pheromones up to 11 km. distant. This moth can detect pheromones in concentrations as low as 1 molecule of pheromone per 1017 molecules of air. A receptor cell can respond to a single molecule of the pheromone called bombykol and 200 molecules can cause a behavioral response.