Is bee smarter than human?

[ivconic]

WM6
Not your country, dear Morgan, your country is beautiful.
System of all country is crap.
And we all (except maybe brave Greek) are crap, because we do not resist to such crapy systems.


Funny thing; you reminded me on that problem! If some organized group of people stands up for their rights and protest peacefully than they will achieve nothing - waste of time only. But if same group stands up and try something radical (to really make some difference) than system decree that group as terorist group. Why Greeks are different? Simply because they are tired of wasting time. As long as Greeks are the only one - we will achieve nothing against the system. If we want to beat the system we must organize on global plan. Tough and hardly possible....but not impossible.
....
And yes system in all countries is crap, i agree.
I was born and lived in almost perfect society - Socialism. Than "system" came here and destroyed everything. It is time for revenge - time to destroy system!

[ivconic]

HUNG:"....Many governments make laws to make treasure hunting illegal, so treasure hunters must be pirates to find treasure.
But when the treasure is found, then all the work becomes worthwhile.
The only problem is to find a way to keep the treasure you find...."


That is true. Same situation here in my country. That's why is better each day to find one gold coin than only in one day to find 100kg hoard, because you will have to watch your back from government and mafia at the same time (aren't those also the same?).

[ivconic]

J Player:
I think governments have made laws to make the government the owner of all valuable things in their juristiction since the first governments.
A good example is taxes. Most governments collect more taxes than they need to perform the job of keeping thier country orderly.

But for treasure, Spain has made laws to say they own all treasure not only in Spanish territory, but many other places far from Spain. The most fair treasure laws I know of are in the UK, where the treasure hunter can have the joy of finding his treasure, and then will be paid a fair price to sell the treasure to the government to put in a museum. I think this is good, because it encourages treasure hunting, and at the same time it preserves the treasures for their historical value to anyone who wants to see the actual artifacts from ancient civilizations.

Best wishes,

[ivconic]

I am 43/44 years old and one thing still is not clear to me at all;
why do we have to pay taxes at all? At least in present (Capitalism) situation, why? Earlier, in Socialism i understood taxes as support for maintaining social equality. But today....? I really don't know?
Ok...i know and i understand..but i do not agree! State gives me big NOTHING so why should i pay anything to it? Ok...forget me, i was born in Socialism and now i am living in very sick verson of musty Capitalism. Let's take USA citizen as much better example. Why USA citizens must pay taxes? What USA gives back to them? What? Everything you must pay for, from your pocket. Nothing is for free. You must work like a horse whole your life to barely survive. Your house is not really yours. Your car is not really yours. You must eat junk food. You must sit on nuclear bomb (nobody asked for you to agree). You must go to war each time "they" decide. If not you, than your children must go to war ...several 000 miles away from your home. Again nobody asked for you to agree. And over all you must pay taxes!? Why? What are you exactly paying for? To watch few rich bustards everyday perversity arround you? I am asking this because i am now in almost the same position, eversince "democracy" knocked on our doors here (without asking me if i want).
So...first step to changes is to stop paying hard earned money for NOTHING.

[ivconic]

Ok...let me put it this way;

if one citizen refuse to pay taxes, he goes to jail and state takes all his goods.
But...if 200-300 millions refuse to pay taxes this year...than what?
.....
That's my idea; to rise sence to majority and to make global change in one simple move. Impossible...? Maybe not!

[ivconic]

Fred:
For you the answer ivconic..

[ivconic]

Originally Posted by Fred
For you the answer ivconic:

Yes you are right!
Bees are smarter than human! I agree!

[ivconic]

"....to rise sence to majority and to make global change in one simple move. Impossible...? Maybe not!..."

Not impossible especially in this era - era of informations, era of internet, era of globalisation.
Internet is most powerfull "weapon" in history. Look at us now; several thousand miles away from each other, yet speaking directly and exchanging ideas and experiences.
Is it impossible to "synchronize" majority of people arround the world to do the same thing in same moment? I don't think so. I think it is possible.
It can start as a funny game and end up as serious thing that can make global change.
...

[ivconic]

What to ask from majority of human population?
Money? No! Personal datas? No! Much effort? No!
Enough will be to ask something funny and unusual which involves no effort at all, no personal risks, no money....
What than?
For example: "do not buy and drink Coca Cola for one week" would be quite enough for a start!
or
"do not buy gas and do not drive a car at least 3 days" - would be more than enough!
or
"do not turn on and watch tv today, instead go outdoor and walk in some park"...
or
"do not accept vaccine against "mexican" flue, because it is fake and lie"..
etc...etc...etc..

You see my point?


Beleive me or not...but if at least 50% od Coca Cola drinkers skip to drink it just for one week - Coca Cola will bust totally!
And if Coca Cola bust than USA government will not have enough money to start new war! Voila! (it is just picturesque example of main idea)

Can you see the point?
"Are you experienced!? (Jimmy Hendrix)"

[ivconic]

Point is that globalism is based on "big numbers" directly dependable of each "small number" inside it! Suppres only one "small number" and whole system will crash!

[J_Player]

I am 43/44 years old and one thing still is not clear to me at all;
why do we have to pay taxes at all? At least in present (Capitalism) situation, why? Earlier, in Socialism i understood taxes as support for maintaining social equality. But today....? I really don't know?
Ok...i know and i understand..but i do not agree! State gives me big NOTHING so why should i pay anything to it? Ok...forget me, i was born in Socialism and now i am living in very sick verson of musty Capitalism. Let's take USA citizen as much better example. Why USA citizens must pay taxes? What USA gives back to them? What? Everything you must pay for, from your pocket. Nothing is for free. You must work like a horse whole your life to barely survive. Your house is not really yours. Your car is not really yours. You must eat junk food. You must sit on nuclear bomb (nobody asked for you to agree). You must go to war each time "they" decide. If not you, than your children must go to war ...several 000 miles away from your home. Again nobody asked for you to agree. And over all you must pay taxes!? Why? What are you exactly paying for? To watch few rich bustards everyday perversity arround you? I am asking this because i am now in almost the same position, eversince "democracy" knocked on our doors here (without asking me if i want).
So...first step to changes is to stop paying hard earned money for NOTHING.

Hi Ivconic,
I think people all over the world have questions of what they get out of their government, and which is the best government method. A question I often wondered is "what would happened if the government is removed, and people left to run the country on their own"?

At first I can see some big advantages. For example, there is no longer a need to spend 30 years or longer to own a home. It would seem a person could build a home and have it completely paid for within a few years. And once you buy a car, you would be the owner without needing to take it for inspections and yearly licences. You would not pay taxes. Keep all the money you earn and don't waste time figuring out how much to pay to the government. This would work with any government that was removed.

But wait...
After a few years your car would be no good because the roads are falling apart. Time to buy a tractor to go where you want. And something funny going on at the bank. Your money is no longer there. Ok, time to go back home. What!! Somebody Burglarized my house. It would have been nice if the government is still around to keep the basic things working.

So we see there are some things that it is good to have a government for.
The question is what things are important for the government to do?

In my opinion, I don't mind paying taxes for the things I described above and other basic things to any government that is ruling the place I live. The question comes when we look at things that some people don't think are necessary, or may be a waste of money.

Most Americans talk of the greatness of capitolism and a "Democratic Government" They have lots of examples to prove socialism is not good. But I think it really depends on how the government is conducted. For example, democracy started in Greece a long time ago. Their version of democracy was not very similar to the way democracy works in the USA. The govenrment of the early Greeks cannot be compared to the modern American government because they were two very different ways to apply democracy. The same is true of socialism. I have seen examples of how it works well, and some bad examples too. In fact I know people who live in socialist countries whose lifestyle is not much different than the lives of US citizens that have a carreer in the military. The US military appears to work very similar to some of the socialist countries from the perspective of the citizen. And I don't hear those Americans complaining about how awful life is in the military. They talk about the benefits they get that non-military people must take care of on thier own.

What is the best method of govenrnment? I don't know for sure. But I do know I don't like when a government makes decisions that most of the citizens don't want. I don't like the idea that people cannot work hard and get ahead. The reason for having a government is to protect a group of people from things that destroy the quality of life. Maybe governments are responsible for the reason we have developed civilizations, and don't need to worry about things like cave men did, and we can live past an average age of 25. But if you have the feeling that all your life is spent trying to survive, there doesn't seem to be much quality of life left.

The answer?
Revolution? That has been done when enough citizens are upset enough with their government. It is not fun, but it has resulted in a better government in some cases.

Evolution? The slow change in government laws and methods is what currently happens with established governments. For some, it isn't fast enough, or the changes are lop-sided so the laws favor certain classes of citizens.

What else is there?
I guess you could go to some remote place where no government was dealing with you. Of course it would remove you from your home and things you may not want to part with.

The only real advantage to democracy I can see is not in the way it is applied, but in the principle that it is a representative form of government. That is to say it is a kind of government where the citizens can vote so we see what the majority wants to become law. If this isn't happening in a particular application of democracy, then it is not the principle of democracy that failed, it is the people who applied it.

That's just my opinion. It could be wrong, and it could change over time.

Best wishes,
J_P

[joecoin]

Yes, the Internet, initially paid for by USA tax payers dollars. USA taxpayer also enjoys a wonderful system of roads built by government, pretty good court system with checks and balances, regulation of radio/TV frequencies (no overpowering signals), wonderful National and State parks, free libraries, free 12 years education (16 years in California), free food if you are poor enough, subsidised hosing, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security pension, Police, Fire and EMS services, garbage collection, museums and Sandia Laboratories.

Yes, there is a lot of waste of tax dollars. I believe that 50% of my taxes are wasted.

[ivconic]

What effort would be to persuade one small man not to be servant of globalism just for one week (more than enough time to crash the system)?

[ivconic]

J Player what you are saying is making a lot of sence and i agree.
Removing government would lead to anarchi sooner or later and total bust of everything.
On the other side; system we have it today is everything but not human and not serving to small man at all. Todays system is serving to minority against majority.
Where is solution? Where is exit (for us - small people)?

[ivconic]

Yes, the Internet, initially paid for by USA tax payers dollars. USA taxpayer also enjoys a wonderful system of roads built by government, pretty good court system with checks and balances, regulation of radio/TV frequencies (no overpowering signals), wonderful National and State parks, free libraries, free 12 years education (16 years in California), free food if you are poor enough, subsidised hosing, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security pension, Police, Fire and EMS services, garbage collection, museums and Sandia Laboratories.

Yes, there is a lot of waste of tax dollars. I believe that 50% of my taxes are wasted.

Uhhh...if not much more than 50%!!!