Is bee smarter than human?

[Esteban]

Capitalism is a monster that consumes all the resources at their disposal and every day requires more... Politicians and government structures are growing every day, then it is "important" to create new taxes and raise them. They also "studying" what groups of people include them for his purposes. In the end, citizens pay taxes and politicians make wars. In wars are killed those who pay the taxes, that holds politicians and other "people".

[WM6]

Capitalism is a monster that consumes all the resources at their disposal and every day requires more... Politicians and government structures are growing every day, then it is "important" to create new taxes and raise them. They also "studying" what groups of people include them for his purposes. In the end, citizens pay taxes and politicians make wars. In wars are killed those who pay the taxes, that holds politicians and other "people".

At the ends I can fully agre with you Esteban.

But explanatios are just first step to freedom.

[ivconic]

Capitalism is a monster that consumes all the resources at their disposal and every day requires more... Politicians and government structures are growing every day, then it is "important" to create new taxes and raise them. They also "studying" what groups of people include them for his purposes. In the end, citizens pay taxes and politicians make wars. In wars are killed those who pay the taxes, that holds politicians and other "people".

Correct.
Bustard politicians (ministers, government) are seaching each day for new methods to take taxes. One day we will have to pay taxes on air.
If we are such sheep than we deserve even worse destiny.
I've been in local wars for decade. I had enough. Especially knowing the fact that all those wars were for nothing and brought no improvements at all. Neither to one of the sides.
I asking myself how to solve this present misery than? Wars again? I don't think so.
I think best way to overcome this misery is to gather majority of people and to start various peacefull but drastic actions.
For example we can gather and negotiate to start synchronized actions at the same time and in massive response. We all can simply refuse to pay taxes.
I am wandering what they gonna do than? Nothing!
I also mentioned few other examples at the begining of this thread.
We all can stop to buy some products from the list. We can make list of all products made and offered by main "enemies" and simply we can stop buying those. Instead of those we can buy and use alternative products made by other, small and independant manufacturers.
We can stop using some of "their" services also.
We can enlarge and spread out boycott on many other fields.
In month or two that sick system will crash for sure.
...
Or....we can start wars. But to fight against who? To fight against domestic army, police..? Than they gonna claim that we are terorists. If we act in a small groups than it is sure they gonna say that we are terorists. So we must act in huge groups as global movement and we must act synchronized.
....
I am not for war and fight. I am for peacefull but global actions.

[WM6]

For example we can gather and negotiate to start synchronized actions at the same time and in massive response. We all can simply refuse to pay taxes.
I am wandering what they gonna do than? Nothing!

I am for peacefull but global actions.

Yes, global mysery we can overcomming only by global actions.

Taxes are special problem. You cannot to buy something without to pay taxes at the same time. Taxes are incorporated in present system of exchange goods.

We need paralel system, paralel economy (money, production, exchange system) to not to buy inside current system and by this not to pay taxes.

Paralel economy is not only science fiction, but it is repeatedly tested model of colective survival. Please read more about this subject here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Exchange_Trading_Systems

Not easy way to act global, but capital is working for us according to the principle: far worse - much better.

First step: global explanation - anyone not convinced by the activity of capital, need to be convinced by us. Maybe long way. Only goal: better human society is important.

Nevertless, as you say, we can devalue some capitalist mascot as CocaCola start acting now.

[ivconic]

"...First step: global explanation - anyone not convinced by the activity of capital, need to be convinced by us. Maybe long way. Only goal: better human society is important...."

That's first and most important step. Luckilly we have internet nowdays. Forums like this one can be the initial places people to gather and talk. Each member of forum can proceed idea to next 10 people he knows. Next 10 people can proceed idea to next 100 people...etc...etc...
Process could last for years and dilute, but with good organisation and strong resolution process can last just few months using internet.
We can design new forum (here or out of here) specialized for this idea.
What we need are more "starters" - people who will anticipate in starting that action. Even better if those "starters" do speak different languages, so we can add to that forum multilingual threads.

[WM6]

".

We can design new forum (here or out of here) specialized for this idea.
What we need are more "starters" - people who will anticipate in starting that action. Even better if those "starters" do speak different languages, so we can add to that forum multilingual threads.

Good idea. Perhaps such a forum already exists? I did not research. If there is nothing like, then I'll be happy if I can participated in such a forum, as you now iniciate, and where you will be, I hope, master admin.

What you mean obout MD as major Off Topic theme there?

[ivconic]

Good idea. Perhaps such a forum already exists? I did not research. If there is nothing like, then I'll be happy if I can participated in such a forum, as you now iniciate, and where you will be, I hope, master admin.

What you mean obout MD as major Off Topic theme there?

No. I would like to void that. We need admin with English as native language, mother language. That's first. Second we need a group of pretty literate and intelectual people to start, establish and lead the forum.
I would be happy to join there and post what i have to post (not much more than i posted here).
But i am affraid that so few people will understand this seriously. But than again, that will depend of people who's appearing to present the idea to wide public.
Yes there are numerous simillar "antiglobalism" forums arround the net.
All of those started good and in time diluted...
Obvious proof that people are ready only to talk but not to act....
...
I am affraid we will have to prepare us for worse solutions than...
Wars, pandemias, earthquakes, floods......etc...etc...

[WM6]

Obvious proof that people are ready only to talk but not to act....
...

You are right.

But a words also have a hidden power, which ultimately could change the world.

Remember Bible:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

[J_Player]

Perhaps such a forum already exists? I did not research.

There are hundreds of forums all over the internet to discuss better government and economic systems.
This is Geotech forums, made for the purpose of studying technical aspects of metal detecting, and only one small forum for things that are not metal detecting.

Look here in google to see some examples of forums for politics and government: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&r...m+forum&nfpr=1

Best wishes,
J_P

[ivconic]

"...that are not metal detecting...."

Everything is "metal detecting"! Therefore this forum is good enough to cover many more subject!
Why?
Because themes which were processed in this forum are good for "sharpening" our brains generally. Once man join here and read posts, debates and opinions (especially conflict between "beleivers" and "skeptics") he will learn very good how to think on different way than common people do.
Once man get free from usuall prejudices, he is ready to better understand politics and economy too.
Major conclusion would be that "everything is lie" on this planet (until proven the oposite). Things are not what thay appearing to be, in common world.
....
Problem with all those forums we talking about, is in to much phylosphy and no real actions.
People like to talk from their comfortable chairs but are not ready to go outdoor and do something...pitty!

[Esteban]

Correct.
Bustard politicians (ministers, government) are seaching each day for new methods to take taxes. One day we will have to pay taxes on air.
If we are such sheep than we deserve even worse destiny.
I've been in local wars for decade. I had enough. Especially knowing the fact that all those wars were for nothing and brought no improvements at all. Neither to one of the sides.
I asking myself how to solve this present misery than? Wars again? I don't think so.
I think best way to overcome this misery is to gather majority of people and to start various peacefull but drastic actions.
For example we can gather and negotiate to start synchronized actions at the same time and in massive response. We all can simply refuse to pay taxes.
I am wandering what they gonna do than? Nothing!
I also mentioned few other examples at the begining of this thread.
We all can stop to buy some products from the list. We can make list of all products made and offered by main "enemies" and simply we can stop buying those. Instead of those we can buy and use alternative products made by other, small and independant manufacturers.
We can stop using some of "their" services also.
We can enlarge and spread out boycott on many other fields.
In month or two that sick system will crash for sure.
...
Or....we can start wars. But to fight against who? To fight against domestic army, police..? Than they gonna claim that we are terorists. If we act in a small groups than it is sure they gonna say that we are terorists. So we must act in huge groups as global movement and we must act synchronized.
....
I am not for war and fight. I am for peacefull but global actions.

No war I want. I said that politicians send you in the front and they live and rich with your taxes. If law is equal for alls –this is the most important aspect of democracy, I think–, then, the politicians must go in front as the simple citizens wich died in wars created by the politicians. So, law is not equal for alls.

[ivconic]

Better nobody go to war! No wars anymore! War is worst thing that people can do. I am totaly against any kind of a war!

I undesrtood you Esteban. I already judged you as descent man (except LRL things !!!) and i know that we are sharing same attitude upon many things.
Cheers!

[ivconic]

Capitalistic "humanism" can also be seen through this example:

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16267

First it was horrible war campaign to that poor country. Innocent civilians were victims mostly. "Collateral damage"...as "they" also explained 1500 killed civillians in Serbia, during NATO air raids and 78 days of agression, in 1999.

Back to Iraq;
Than bogus bomb detectors also sold to those poor people, by very hot prices! Killing continues!
Porsche Cayenne on one side and dead people arround on another.....poetry! Isn't it!

[ivconic]

Let nobody tells me now that LRL charlatan was alone, selling bogus bomb detectors!!
Neither a tiny fly can not cross to Iraq without "their" permission and full control.
It's all about money. Over the dead bodies if needed.

[ivconic]

Earthquakes in Haiti.
Horrible!
I am shocked!
It is fresh and "touchy" to talk about that.
In huge respect to victims i will not assume nothing here.
I will only say that those earthquakes are result from many years of nuclear undergound experimenting.
I am just wandering; we had chance to use most advanced geoseismic technology to predict such disaster, right?
Why didn't we?
Who are those "destiny creators" which decide who will live and who will die?
Future will give us many answers.