PDK LRL

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by Max

Hi,
ok... now that JPlayer wrote about (why? ) that there's no reason to miss that part of the story to get a larger picture.

Me and Qiaozhi found the Heathkit schematic of original MD used inside the PD.

Qiaozhi at first realized that something similar was both in an old Heathkit schematic but something was wrong in that respect to the reverse engineering schematic of PD, different connections and components.

Then I found another schematic, that time was another , later MD, always by Heathkit, and we realized it was the exact same stuff of what's inside the PD... in it's main part that uses the coil in the round container.
It's an off-resonance kind.

So we concluded that the PD was not a design by Alonso as claimed on the old thread about PD... but something probably modified and adapted by him using parts from different stuff, like that MD from heathkit... that's about 70% of PD circuit...other stuff like audio part is really easy thing and unimportant. Last "unknown" piece is a broadband amplitude modulation receiver... but very basic stuff. There couldn't be a patent about simply cause the technology of that MD is already patented by the Heathkit corp. in the 60's and 70's. The radio part is out maybe from 100years already... what you wanna patent of it ? Marconi probably hold that patent before...

Now, that's why I told you I'm so sure of no mistakes in the MD part: we know many months ago that it was copied from the Heathkit MD I wrote, that IT IS an Heathkit MD inside just with a smaller coil than original, and so everything is right in it... don't forget Heathkit's engineers made its design!

Actually some of us made it for real, and works also cool, but as normal MD!

But all the rest seems more and more a fairy tale.

Kind regards,
Max

Hey Max

In this photo,it was you in Vietnam war ???

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Max

Actually some of us made it for real, and works also cool, but as normal MD!
But all the rest seems more and more a fairy tale.

Originally Posted by Morgan

Yes the $25,000 its realy very small price. I dont go to America for this little money,so wath happens when i win the price? Just think !!! I´m sure they dont let me return unless i give them the LRL device to copy. THIS IS THE REALITY ABOUT THE CHALLENGE !!!!! One true LRL who works for AMERICA

Well. here we have it... Max says the PDK is a cool Heathkit metal detector that actually works like a regular metal detector, and the rest is a fairy tale. And Morgan says he does not try to win the $25,000 prize with his PDK because it is a small prize compared to the extremely valuable treasures he is finding, and because he believes he will be forced to surrender his pistol detector after he wins.

AMAZING! ... Doesn't this prove the pistol detector really does work to find gold at long distances?



Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Originally Posted by Morgan

Hey Max

In this photo,it was you in Vietnam war ???

Hi,
no, the picture is from wikipedia.

It's not from Vietnam era.

Show a marine that shot an AK...

How can you confuse that vegetation with that of Vietnam ???

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Max

ok... now that JPlayer wrote about (why? ) that there's no reason to miss that part of the story to get a larger picture.

Hi Max,
JPlayer wrote about (why? )
What I posted has been public information available to all unregistered forum readers anywhere in the world. There is no reason not to post information that anyone can read in the geotech forums. You will see an early version of schematics for the pistol detector (with some errors) in this forum post: http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/s...ad.php?p=64025

You will also find the identical Heathkit schematic has been in the geotech forum for years here: http://www.thunting.com/geotech/foru...s/GD-48_BW.gif

Anyone can see the basic Alonso pistol circuit has been copied from the Heathkit GD-348 metal detector which was state of the art decades ago, but is now considered obsolete.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi Max,
JPlayer wrote about (why? )
What I posted has been public information available to all unregistered forum readers anywhere in the world. There is no reason not to post information that anyone can read in the geotech forums. You will see an early version of schematics for the pistol detector (with some errors) in this forum post: http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/s...ad.php?p=64025

You will also find the identical Heathkit schematic has been in the geotech forum for years here: http://www.thunting.com/geotech/foru...s/GD-48_BW.gif

Anyone can see the basic Alonso pistol circuit has been copied from the Heathkit GD-348 metal detector which was state of the art decades ago, but is now considered obsolete.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi,
yes, but that wasn't so immediate conclusion... me and Qiaozhi probably searched for 2-3 days before we found that....I think Esteban will not be happy of your post, anyway.

My intention was leaving out that "details" cause Esteban and other people were worried about implications of making public domain that inside the PD was actually an Heathkit GD-348 MD...

There was a general agreement of keeping out of public domain any reference to that topic of the Heathkit stuff...also with the explicit intention of avoiding mass production of cloned PDs in Asia and other parts of the world. Or also... cloned GD-348 MDs!

Not that I belived really could happen... but you know... today you make an unuseful 10$ bottlecap-remover in western world... then after a couple of weeks you see tons of them in your local store... at 0.99$ each , ALL from a country that we know... where producing stuff is really cheap cause of low salaries...and no good environment policy at now!

Indeed I agree with Esteban when he said that, cause PD was never a commercial unit, there's nothing more than copying old schematics of other brands for personal use only...research and the like, we made here.

Also, like with other schematics here at Geotech most are obsolete stuff... not anymore in production (like the GD-348 ), so the issues about e.g. patents infringements are about academic (unless really Heathkit -or what remains of it- will jump in, really few probable I think).

That sure took another important fact, means also that many people beliving in an original Alonso's design masterpiece will be now about disappointed.

So Esteban will be even less happy about that post!

On the other hand the logic of PD is reusing existing technology to make something different, and that "idea" could stay in a patent... if it's an innovation on existing detection methods (at least this is the belief of who trust Alonso)...but no patent exist as far as we know.

But the most important issue is still that device , after all tests and cloning, failed in reproducing any LRL behaviour.

Kind regards,
Max

[Qiaozhi]

The PDK working as an LRL is just an illusion. You can take almost any non-motion detector circuit; replace the standard audio with a "beeper"; and adjust the sensitivity so that it's on the edge of instability. You then mount the coil in a horizontal position, and off you go. After that it becomes a trick of the mind. In a similar manner to dowsing, you start to see patterns in the random beeping (that are not really there) or are possibly due to multi-path reflections, and start following an imaginary "signal line". At some point you will reach an area that looks interesting to the subconscious mind, and you search around (now using the PDK as a real metal detector) and low-and-behold you find something! Of course, the "treasure" was never really detected from several meters away, but it's a good illusion. The PDK has the added advantage that it has a real metal detector built-in, whereas normal LRLers do their final recovery with a different detector.

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

The PDK working as an LRL is just an illusion. You can take almost any non-motion detector circuit; replace the standard audio with a "beeper"; and adjust the sensitivity so that it's on the edge of instability. You then mount the coil in a horizontal position, and off you go. After that it becomes a trick of the mind. In a similar manner to dowsing, you start to see patterns in the random beeping (that are not really there) or are possibly due to multi-path reflections, and start following an imaginary "signal line". At some point you will reach an area that looks interesting to the subconscious mind, and you search around (now using the PDK as a real metal detector) and low-and-behold you find something! Of course, the "treasure" was never really detected from several meters away, but it's a good illusion. The PDK has the added advantage that it has a real metal detector built-in, whereas normal LRLers do their final recovery with a different detector.

Whenever a metal detector (either separate or built-in) is melded with a dowsing instrument, the true merit or worth of the dowsing gadget will always be an unknown --no matter what the operator believes.

The only way to effectively evaluate a dowsing wand (or dowsing method) is to test it by itself.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

The PDK working as an LRL is just an illusion. You can take almost any non-motion detector circuit; replace the standard audio with a "beeper"; and adjust the sensitivity so that it's on the edge of instability. You then mount the coil in a horizontal position, and off you go. After that it becomes a trick of the mind. In a similar manner to dowsing, you start to see patterns in the random beeping (that are not really there) or are possibly due to multi-path reflections, and start following an imaginary "signal line". At some point you will reach an area that looks interesting to the subconscious mind, and you search around (now using the PDK as a real metal detector) and low-and-behold you find something! Of course, the "treasure" was never really detected from several meters away, but it's a good illusion. The PDK has the added advantage that it has a real metal detector built-in, whereas normal LRLers do their final recovery with a different detector.

Hi Qiaozhi,
I agree that is very likely, but you cannot completely rule out that if there is some (let´s call it) halo effect, holding a metallic coil or whatever above ground at a particular and regular height on edge of detection may detect it...

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Theseus

Whenever a metal detector (either separate or built-in) is melded with a dowsing instrument, the true merit or worth of the dowsing gadget will always be an unknown --no matter what the operator believes.

The only way to effectively evaluate a dowsing wand (or dowsing method) is to test it by itself.

I agree with your statement. Except (in this case) the PDK is not a dowsing instrument. There is no swinging handle, or similar gizmo. It is entirely electronic, in a similar manner to the Mineoro stuff.

Originally Posted by Fred

Hi Qiaozhi,
I agree that is very likely, but you cannot completely rule out that if there is some (let´s call it) halo effect, holding a metallic coil or whatever above ground at a particular and regular height on edge of detection may detect it...

I think it's much more than "likely". There may be a halo effect in the ground created by certain items, but the idea of some sort of ionic cloud, hovering above longtime buried gold, is pure fantasy.

[Max]

Originally Posted by Fred

Hi Qiaozhi,
I agree that is very likely, but you cannot completely rule out that if there is some (let´s call it) halo effect, holding a metallic coil or whatever above ground at a particular and regular height on edge of detection may detect it...

Hi,
yes, we talk about that, I remember the "halo" issue well.

Though I think the so called "halo" really exist and not only for ferrous items, long time buried... cause had experiences that cannot be easy explained not considering that kind of effects.... I must say that the idea of PD detecting a supposed "halo" of e.g. a coin from meters far is pretty unrealistic.

That's cause we found no connections happens at long range, the device seems work (as a normal MD) in the short range only, unless a very (BUT VERY) big object is in front of it... in which case is not impossible reading a detection also at 4-5meters away... that's the case of very large (several square meters) conductive objects, usually big iron doors, when disc work not properly.

It's halo ? No. The square meters of a large door can be detected also by other kind of sensitive MDs... expecially PIs, I must say that the fact an old off-resonance MD design can do that doesn't surprised me much at that time.

My last idea of PD is that is a bit of black magic + some old style electronics.

Why black magic ? Easy: it's the unexplained there... the broadband receiver is there just cause the general idea is, like in the goldgun stuff, detecting the presence or absence of some radio signal, with undefined frequency or subject to frequency shifts.

If you ask about if the PD works or not... you'll better ask yourself if the goldgun could ever work.

For me it's clear that will not work... but others seems still think that the goldgun "principle" as the right way to the promised land of working LRLs.

Kind regards,
Max

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by Max

Hi,
yes, but that wasn't so immediate conclusion... me and Qiaozhi probably searched for 2-3 days before we found that....I think Esteban will not be happy of your post, anyway.

My intention was leaving out that "details" cause Esteban and other people were worried about implications of making public domain that inside the PD was actually an Heathkit GD-348 MD...

There was a general agreement of keeping out of public domain any reference to that topic of the Heathkit stuff...also with the explicit intention of avoiding mass production of cloned PDs in Asia and other parts of the world. Or also... cloned GD-348 MDs!

Not that I belived really could happen... but you know... today you make an unuseful 10$ bottlecap-remover in western world... then after a couple of weeks you see tons of them in your local store... at 0.99$ each , ALL from a country that we know... where producing stuff is really cheap cause of low salaries...and no good environment policy at now!

Indeed I agree with Esteban when he said that, cause PD was never a commercial unit, there's nothing more than copying old schematics of other brands for personal use only...research and the like, we made here.

Also, like with other schematics here at Geotech most are obsolete stuff... not anymore in production (like the GD-348 ), so the issues about e.g. patents infringements are about academic (unless really Heathkit -or what remains of it- will jump in, really few probable I think).

That sure took another important fact, means also that many people beliving in an original Alonso's design masterpiece will be now about disappointed.

So Esteban will be even less happy about that post!

On the other hand the logic of PD is reusing existing technology to make something different, and that "idea" could stay in a patent... if it's an innovation on existing detection methods (at least this is the belief of who trust Alonso)...but no patent exist as far as we know.

But the most important issue is still that device , after all tests and cloning, failed in reproducing any LRL behaviour.

Kind regards,
Max

Yes,it failled but only to the person who made mistakes when construct and calibrate device ...

[J_Player]

It has been confirmed that in most locations, the ground around long-time buried metals including gold is not the same as the same ground around recently buried metals. There is an Australian company that runs a thriving business locating gold and other ore deposits by sampling the ground above the buried ore. From their literature, they claim ions of the ore move upward through the soil in a column, exactly as is described on the Mineoro website. But they make no claims that these ions become airborne where they can be detected by a modified metal detector. According to the company who pioneered the mobile metal ion business, these upward moving ions become neutralized as a compound within the last 10 cm of reaching the surface of the earth. According to their measurements, this extremely weak column of ions travels upward as much as 5000 feet before neutralizing just below the surface.

It is my opinion there is a "halo", provided you describe a halo as an anomaly in the soil which exists as a column in the earth above long-time buried metals. I do not believe any halo extends above the surface of the ground. If it is possible to sense the location of buried metal from above the ground without taking a soil sample, then I believe it would be explained by secondary effects, not by the metal ions floating into the air.

However, I have never seen any reliable device locate any halo at long range except by taking a sample of the soil to show that it has a higher concentration of ions than the surrounding soil. None of the talk about LRLs locating buried metals was ever demonstrated to me live in an area unknown to the operator of the LRL. Also, no LRL in the world has ever won Carl's $25,000 prize. The only LRL I have heard of attempting to win a prize is the contraption Dell Winders used to try to find coins in the sand in front of Randi. The reports show that Dell failed miserably, and then claimed Randi lied about the test results. When Randi offered Dell a re-test for a $1 million prize, Dell refused.

Is there any LRL in the world that can be demonstrated now in front of witnesses to find an unknown long-time buried treasure at long range?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Steve in MS]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Is there any LRL in the world that can be demonstrated now in front of witnesses to find an unknown long-time buried treasure at long range?

Best wishes,
J_P

Apparently not. What is apparent is the continued list of "ideal" circumstances that must be met so that the LRL will work at all.
Come on now, it doesn't find gold unless it has been in the ground for hundreds of years, who knows, maybe it takes thousands or millions of years for it to work properly.
Enough of excuses and theoretical nonsense, if there is anyone out there that has one that works, prove it.
That's right, step up and show the world!
Like the saying goes, money talks, bs walks.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by J_Player

It has been confirmed that in most locations, the ground around long-time buried metals including gold is not the same as the same ground around recently buried metals. There is an Australian company that runs a thriving business locating gold and other ore deposits by sampling the ground above the buried ore. From their literature, they claim ions of the ore move upward through the soil in a column, exactly as is described on the Mineoro website. But they make no claims that these ions become airborne where they can be detected by a modified metal detector. According to the company who pioneered the mobile metal ion business, these upward moving ions become neutralized as a compound within the last 10 cm of reaching the surface of the earth. According to their measurements, this extremely weak column of ions travels upward as much as 5000 feet before neutralizing just below the surface.

It is my opinion there is a "halo", provided you describe a halo as an anomaly in the soil which exists as a column in the earth above long-time buried metals. I do not believe any halo extends above the surface of the ground. If it is possible to sense the location of buried metal from above the ground without taking a soil sample, then I believe it would be explained by secondary effects, not by the metal ions floating into the air.

However, I have never seen any reliable device locate any halo at long range except by taking a sample of the soil to show that it has a higher concentration of ions than the surrounding soil. None of the talk about LRLs locating buried metals was ever demonstrated to me live in an area unknown to the operator of the LRL. Also, no LRL in the world has ever won Carl's $25,000 prize. The only LRL I have heard of attempting to win a prize is the contraption Dell Winders used to try to find coins in the sand in front of Randi. The reports show that Dell failed miserably, and then claimed Randi lied about the test results. When Randi offered Dell a re-test for a $1 million prize, Dell refused.

Is there any LRL in the world that can be demonstrated now in front of witnesses to find an unknown long-time buried treasure at long range?

Best wishes,
J_P

The detection at some distance is possible (I'm not talking about 1,000 meters, but 10 to 50 meters yes). Is not only by the ions, yes by the "field" around this buried for long time good conductive metals.

Who can be witnesses? Maybe if you or Carl are these witnesses, became automatically in true! And during this you'll take pictures and film, and your pics and film automatically became in true! This is the difference between your true and my(our) true.

Regards

Esteban

[Fred]

Originally Posted by J_Player

...From their literature, they claim ions of the ore move upward through the soil in a column, exactly as is described on the Mineoro website. But they make no claims that these ions become airborne where they can be detected by a modified metal detector. According to the company who pioneered the mobile metal ion business, these upward moving ions become neutralized as a compound within the last 10 cm of reaching the surface of the earth.

"If these atoms are ionized,by radiation or by collision by other particles,electrons are set free.Positively charged metal ions and electrons then can move together in a wind shear.

Fred.