PDK LRL

[Steve in MS]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Is there any LRL in the world that can be demonstrated now in front of witnesses to find an unknown long-time buried treasure at long range?

Best wishes,
J_P

Apparently not. What is apparent is the continued list of "ideal" circumstances that must be met so that the LRL will work at all.
Come on now, it doesn't find gold unless it has been in the ground for hundreds of years, who knows, maybe it takes thousands or millions of years for it to work properly.
Enough of excuses and theoretical nonsense, if there is anyone out there that has one that works, prove it.
That's right, step up and show the world!
Like the saying goes, money talks, bs walks.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by J_Player

It has been confirmed that in most locations, the ground around long-time buried metals including gold is not the same as the same ground around recently buried metals. There is an Australian company that runs a thriving business locating gold and other ore deposits by sampling the ground above the buried ore. From their literature, they claim ions of the ore move upward through the soil in a column, exactly as is described on the Mineoro website. But they make no claims that these ions become airborne where they can be detected by a modified metal detector. According to the company who pioneered the mobile metal ion business, these upward moving ions become neutralized as a compound within the last 10 cm of reaching the surface of the earth. According to their measurements, this extremely weak column of ions travels upward as much as 5000 feet before neutralizing just below the surface.

It is my opinion there is a "halo", provided you describe a halo as an anomaly in the soil which exists as a column in the earth above long-time buried metals. I do not believe any halo extends above the surface of the ground. If it is possible to sense the location of buried metal from above the ground without taking a soil sample, then I believe it would be explained by secondary effects, not by the metal ions floating into the air.

However, I have never seen any reliable device locate any halo at long range except by taking a sample of the soil to show that it has a higher concentration of ions than the surrounding soil. None of the talk about LRLs locating buried metals was ever demonstrated to me live in an area unknown to the operator of the LRL. Also, no LRL in the world has ever won Carl's $25,000 prize. The only LRL I have heard of attempting to win a prize is the contraption Dell Winders used to try to find coins in the sand in front of Randi. The reports show that Dell failed miserably, and then claimed Randi lied about the test results. When Randi offered Dell a re-test for a $1 million prize, Dell refused.

Is there any LRL in the world that can be demonstrated now in front of witnesses to find an unknown long-time buried treasure at long range?

Best wishes,
J_P

The detection at some distance is possible (I'm not talking about 1,000 meters, but 10 to 50 meters yes). Is not only by the ions, yes by the "field" around this buried for long time good conductive metals.

Who can be witnesses? Maybe if you or Carl are these witnesses, became automatically in true! And during this you'll take pictures and film, and your pics and film automatically became in true! This is the difference between your true and my(our) true.

Regards

Esteban

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by Steve in MS

Apparently not. What is apparent is the continued list of "ideal" circumstances that must be met so that the LRL will work at all.
Come on now, it doesn't find gold unless it has been in the ground for hundreds of years, who knows, maybe it takes thousands or millions of years for it to work properly.
Enough of excuses and theoretical nonsense, if there is anyone out there that has one that works, prove it.
That's right, step up and show the world!
Like the saying goes, money talks, bs walks.

THE NEW CHALLENGE

1-lets go to old places chose in map (by one person not your friend or my friend),where there is possible to find treasure.

2-I use my LRL PDK & Mineoro DC2008(IR)devices,and prove to you i can find old buried GOLD ,it should be ,not less than 1 Kg,i assume i can find this amount of gold 10 meters or 40 meters distance depending on weather conditions,it doesnt matter if its deep or not.
If ii dont find gold in the place i search ( at least 1Kg of Gold) i challenge you to go there in my presence with Metal Detector and try to find the gold .

3-If you find the 1Kg of Gold (or more) in the place where i search before with my LRL,I give to you in presence of witnesses 25.000 EURO.
If i find with LRL the 1Kg(or biger) treasure in the place we are searching you should give to me 25.000 Euro.
It should be GOLD NOT SILVER and i need sometimes one MD just for pinpoint the more dificoult targets.


Regards

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Morgan

THE NEW CHALLENGE

1-lets go to old places chose in map (by one person not your friend or my friend),where there is possible to find treasure.

2-I use my LRL PDK & Mineoro DC2008(IR)devices,and prove to you i can find old buried GOLD ,it should be ,not less than 1 Kg,i assume i can find this amount of gold 10 meters or 40 meters distance depending on weather conditions,it doesnt matter if its deep or not.
If ii dont find gold in the place i search ( at least 1Kg of Gold) i challenge you to go there in my presence with Metal Detector and try to find the gold .

3-If you find the 1Kg of Gold (or more) in the place where i search before with my LRL,I give to you in presence of witnesses 25.000 EURO.
If i find with LRL the 1Kg(or biger) treasure in the place we are searching you should give to me 25.000 Euro.
It should be GOLD NOT SILVER and i need sometimes one MD just for pinpoint the more dificoult targets.


Regards

Is very natural that if you don't find the supossed treasure with the pistol, the pistol fails. But if you don't find with regular MD, the treasure don't exist!

If anybody of both parts found the supossed treasure showed in map, nobody gain? But what happens, for example, if you detect with your pistol and old lamp or sparzed coins with the pistol? Maybe they can convert in believer, but nobody gain nothing!

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Is very natural that if you don't find the supossed treasure with the pistol, the pistol fails. But if you don't find with regular MD, the treasure don't exist!

If anybody of both parts found the supossed treasure showed in map, nobody gain? But what happens, for example, if you detect with your pistol and old lamp or sparzed coins with the pistol? Maybe they can convert in believer, but nobody gain nothing!

THE NEW CHALLENGE ITS FOR SEARCH GOLD HOARD,NOT LESS THAN 1 Kg !!!
We are talking here about one real TREASURE,medium or big dimentions.
Me or the other person can find during the challenge sparzed coins or objects in gold,nobody wins the price.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Morgan

THE NEW CHALLENGE ITS FOR SEARCH GOLD HOARD,NOT LESS THAN 1 Kg !!!
We are talking here about one real TREASURE,medium or big dimentions.
Me or the other person can find during the challenge sparzed coins or objects in gold,nobody wins the price.

Yes, but some objects found with pistol has not gold or not totally gold as these objects found with pistol and easyli weight is 1 Kg! So, those are a kind of treasure too and must be in contract! Sorry, scanner fails and is not totally clear the image!

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Yes, but some objects found with pistol has not gold or not totally gold as these objects found with pistol and easyli weight is 1 Kg! So, those are a kind of treasure too and must be in contract! Sorry, scanner fails and is not totally clear the image!

Thanks for advertement about purity of gold objects.
It should be one hoard or object with 1 Kg or more,made of real GOLD or not less than 50% of Gold. If its only golden or some weak Gold alloy,its not valid for the price reward 25.000 Euro.
I hope Max comes with TGS(super) for the challenge

Regards

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Morgan

Thanks for advertement about purity of gold objects.
It should be one hoard or object with 1 Kg or more,made of real GOLD or not less than 50% of Gold. If its only golden or some weak Gold alloy,its not valid for the price reward 25.000 Euro.
I hope Max comes with TGS(super) for the challenge

Regards

I wonder who keeps the 1kg (or more) of gold?
I candidate myself.

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by Fred

I wonder who keeps the 1kg (or more) of gold?
I candidate myself.

Hi Fred

Its obvious, finders/keepers !!!
I think its a good challenge. We will not search in acheological places.

Regards

[Max]

Originally Posted by Morgan

Thanks for advertement about purity of gold objects.
It should be one hoard or object with 1 Kg or more,made of real GOLD or not less than 50% of Gold. If its only golden or some weak Gold alloy,its not valid for the price reward 25.000 Euro.
I hope Max comes with TGS(super) for the challenge

Regards

at least if there's something in my dusty TGS range I will find with it!

I think you'll just jump in your car at some moment talking about some miles away detection to disappear before having too shame!

Ideas for a new challenge for you ? Try to recover some credibility !?

Cause you already lose it all along the way... to LRL.

Kind regards,
Max

[Steve in MS]

Originally Posted by Morgan

THE NEW CHALLENGE

1-lets go to old places chose in map (by one person not your friend or my friend),where there is possible to find treasure.

2-I use my LRL PDK & Mineoro DC2008(IR)devices,and prove to you i can find old buried GOLD ,it should be ,not less than 1 Kg,i assume i can find this amount of gold 10 meters or 40 meters distance depending on weather conditions,it doesnt matter if its deep or not.
If ii dont find gold in the place i search ( at least 1Kg of Gold) i challenge you to go there in my presence with Metal Detector and try to find the gold .

3-If you find the 1Kg of Gold (or more) in the place where i search before with my LRL,I give to you in presence of witnesses 25.000 EURO.
If i find with LRL the 1Kg(or biger) treasure in the place we are searching you should give to me 25.000 Euro.
It should be GOLD NOT SILVER and i need sometimes one MD just for pinpoint the more dificoult targets.


Regards

You miss a very important fact and that is standard metal detectors work
no one would deny that. So what they can find or not find is no issue, everyone knows they have limited range, with LRL no limitation to range.
There is still no evidence whatsoever that LRL will work, only someones word. You already have Carl's challenge so there is no need for another one to be made up. If LRL is so personal that no proof needs to made to whether it works that is fine, it should be kept personal and not even mentioned publically, otherwise the burden of proof rests squarely on the shoulders of those who claim they work, no?

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Steve in MS

You miss a very important fact and that is standard metal detectors work
no one would deny that. So what they can find or not find is no issue, everyone knows they have limited range, with LRL no limitation to range.
There is still no evidence whatsoever that LRL will work, only someones word. You already have Carl's challenge so there is no need for another one to be made up. If LRL is so personal that no proof needs to made to whether it works that is fine, it should be kept personal and not even mentioned publically, otherwise the burden of proof rests squarely on the shoulders of those who claim they work, no?

LRL has limitation in range.

Right! I know if somebody comprobe with his eyes in presence of witnesses, cameras, etc., at the end you don't assume that this work because you consider ignorance this possibility, so as you're doctorate in logic, well, you can't carry on your shoulders!!! So, you're affraid because can collide with years of negations!!!

[Fred]

Originally Posted by J_Player

...From their literature, they claim ions of the ore move upward through the soil in a column, exactly as is described on the Mineoro website. But they make no claims that these ions become airborne where they can be detected by a modified metal detector. According to the company who pioneered the mobile metal ion business, these upward moving ions become neutralized as a compound within the last 10 cm of reaching the surface of the earth.

"If these atoms are ionized,by radiation or by collision by other particles,electrons are set free.Positively charged metal ions and electrons then can move together in a wind shear.

Fred.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Fred

"If these atoms are ionized,by radiation or by collision by other particles,electrons are set free.Positively charged metal ions and electrons then can move together in a wind shear.

Hi Fred,
These ions are not claimed to be ionized by radiation or particle collision by the mobile metal ion company. It appears the metals are ionized by chemical action of the electrolytes in the soil. Most noble metals form a very weak trail of ions, because the nobility of the metal does not permit a strong concentration of ions. Other less noble metals such as zinc, for example form relatively strong columns of ions that are easily measured by soil analysis. Collisions of other particles or radiation may play a part in helping the metals to ionize in the presence of the electrolytes, but it is not thought to be the main mechanism that causes metal to ionize.

According to the mobile metal ion company, these ions of metal become neutralized about 10 CM before they reach up to the surface of the earth, so it is not possible for the ions to see a wind shear (unless there appears a sudden crevice in the earth which allows wind to shear the movement of ions before they have time to neutralize as compounds or salts at the surface). I would presume that the sudden crevice (caused by earthquake or other event) would yield airborne ions in minute concentrations for a few hours until the surface chemicals neutralized them. Thus you have little time to get yer LRL into the crevice and detect the "floating ions" before they all blow away or neutralize.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Steve in MS]

Originally Posted by Esteban

LRL has limitation in range.

Right! I know if somebody comprobe with his eyes in presence of witnesses, cameras, etc., at the end you don't assume that this work because you consider ignorance this possibility, so as you're doctorate in logic, well, you can't carry on your shoulders!!! So, you're affraid because can collide with years of negations!!!

Not sure exactly what you meant to say here Esteban. Let me rephrase here so that you can understand where the skeptics point of view stands.
First of all, if any LRL does work, yours or anyone elses or one for sale by someone then even the more diehard skeptics here would rush out immediately to get one, me included.
Now if only yours does work and none of the rest of LRL's don't and you are unwilling to allow others to know how it works, what good is that to anyone else?
Now for other products for sale on the market, we generally know exactly what they do and buy those products for the purpose they were designed for, right?
As for conventional metal detectors, there usefulness has been proved since very early on, even with moving pictures, even back to the early mine detectors, right?
What do we have as far as evidence when it comes to LRL's?
I would like nothing better than having an LRL if it could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that it is effective, do you see anything wrong with that kind of thinking? But I would not care to get a LRL if there is little or no evidence available that they do in fact work, anything wrong with that?
So you see there is no fear that we are wrong about LRL's not working, mainly because there is no public evidence to support the claim that they do work. Until someone can show us that they work and we see no tangable proof to their usefulness, how can we know they do work?
If LRL users want to keep it to themselves, what good is that to anyone else? I have noticed here that any serious questions have gone unanswered and instead are given some run-around, that only will fuel the idea even more that LRL's can't be taken seriously, no?
So if you have a working LRL or any of the others here have one that works, all you have to do is bring forth some proof that they are effective.
Sorry but we need more than your word or other LRL users, otherwise it remains in the same category of haunted houses, ESP and witchcraft.
And no, I don't care to travel around the world in hopes of finding a working LRL when all is needed are some tests to show they work or
just show us that it works
and we will all rush out and get ours!
Regards.

[J_Player]

OK... there is a way to test any LRL:

We have been told that an LRL must have a long-time buried metal target to detect, (meaning more than 50 years). We also know it is hard to find reliable areas to find long-time buried targets. The problem is most of the fabulous treasures have already been found by LRLs and hidden by the people who found them. Also, these fabulous treasures are probably illegal to search, so the LRL users are not willing to talk much about their illegal finds. So how can we make a good test to see if the LRL really works? There is a way:

In the southern part of the USA there is a large area of land where a civil war was fought more than 200 years ago. During these times, the militia wore clothes that had metal buttons and used firearms which shot lead bullets or balls. There are many thousands of artifacts in the form of metal buttons, buckles, gold bars, silverware, bottle caps and hundreds of other items buried in the ground in these battlefields and encampments that were used by the soldiers of the US civil war. There are so many artifacts that metal detectorists come every year to see how many artifacts can be found in the battlefield areas.

Now think about it... The best relic detectors are VLF metal detectors, which may have a depth sensitivty of maybe 16 inches or more. People using PI machines may get a little more depth to find buried relics. but suppose the deepest metal detector only finds relics as deep as 20 inches. Let's also suppose that not all the relics have been found, whether they are deep or not. Consider... there are more relics found in these battlefields every year at shallow depths, and deeper depths, which proves they have not all been found.

Now, if an LRL really works to find long-time buried metals, then it will certainly find some of the civil war relics that were missed by the metal detectorists. But wait.... In areas where the metal detectorists have recovered all targets in their range, there are still deeper targets that they could not see because of the limtations of their detectors. This means that an LRL can still find the treasures that were missed by conventional detectors deep in the ground as well as the shallow items that were missed. Remember... these items are buried more than 200 years, so no LRL should have any problem finding them.

So here is the challenge that can prove your LRL can work or not:
Take your alleged working LRL to the battle areas of the north-south civil war lands in the USA and use it to find buried metal items with witnesses watching and filming your recoveries. You can check the targets with a conventional metal detector to see what your LRL missed (if anything).

Can you do this with your LRL? I think not. So prove me wrong!

Best

[Fred]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi Fred,
These ions are not claimed to be ionized by radiation or particle collision by the mobile metal ion company. It appears the metals are ionized by chemical action of the electrolytes in the soil. J_P

Hi JP,
The fact that they just disapears 10cm below surface is a bit suspicious. Could it be that the ions migrates towards te surface,then get hit by radiations, depending of their wavelenghts, at depht up to 10cm, getting ionized and eventually dissolve in the air?
I mean: what happens to a ion below surface?
If they dont get into the air, they probably can create an anomaly in the ground and thus in the natural voltage potencial above surface.

Regards,
Fred.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Steve in MS

Not sure exactly what you meant to say here Esteban. Let me rephrase here so that you can understand where the skeptics point of view stands.
First of all, if any LRL does work, yours or anyone elses or one for sale by someone then even the more diehard skeptics here would rush out immediately to get one, me included.
Now if only yours does work and none of the rest of LRL's don't and you are unwilling to allow others to know how it works, what good is that to anyone else?
Now for other products for sale on the market, we generally know exactly what they do and buy those products for the purpose they were designed for, right?
As for conventional metal detectors, there usefulness has been proved since very early on, even with moving pictures, even back to the early mine detectors, right?
What do we have as far as evidence when it comes to LRL's?
I would like nothing better than having an LRL if it could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that it is effective, do you see anything wrong with that kind of thinking? But I would not care to get a LRL if there is little or no evidence available that they do in fact work, anything wrong with that?
So you see there is no fear that we are wrong about LRL's not working, mainly because there is no public evidence to support the claim that they do work. Until someone can show us that they work and we see no tangable proof to their usefulness, how can we know they do work?
If LRL users want to keep it to themselves, what good is that to anyone else? I have noticed here that any serious questions have gone unanswered and instead are given some run-around, that only will fuel the idea even more that LRL's can't be taken seriously, no?
So if you have a working LRL or any of the others here have one that works, all you have to do is bring forth some proof that they are effective.
Sorry but we need more than your word or other LRL users, otherwise it remains in the same category of haunted houses, ESP and witchcraft.
And no, I don't care to travel around the world in hopes of finding a working LRL when all is needed are some tests to show they work or
just show us that it works
and we will all rush out and get ours!
Regards.

If you have a workable system for to detect at certain/possible distance, sure, you'll post here for to test by all the world.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by J_Player

OK... there is a way to test any LRL:

We have been told that an LRL must have a long-time buried metal target to detect, (meaning more than 50 years). We also know it is hard to find reliable areas to find long-time buried targets. The problem is most of the fabulous treasures have already been found by LRLs and hidden by the people who found them. Also, these fabulous treasures are probably illegal to search, so the LRL users are not willing to talk much about their illegal finds. So how can we make a good test to see if the LRL really works? There is a way:

In the southern part of the USA there is a large area of land where a civil war was fought more than 200 years ago. During these times, the militia wore clothes that had metal buttons and used firearms which shot lead bullets or balls. There are many thousands of artifacts in the form of metal buttons, buckles, gold bars, silverware, bottle caps and hundreds of other items buried in the ground in these battlefields and encampments that were used by the soldiers of the US civil war. There are so many artifacts that metal detectorists come every year to see how many artifacts can be found in the battlefield areas.

Now think about it... The best relic detectors are VLF metal detectors, which may have a depth sensitivty of maybe 16 inches or more. People using PI machines may get a little more depth to find buried relics. but suppose the deepest metal detector only finds relics as deep as 20 inches. Let's also suppose that not all the relics have been found, whether they are deep or not. Consider... there are more relics found in these battlefields every year at shallow depths, and deeper depths, which proves they have not all been found.

Now, if an LRL really works to find long-time buried metals, then it will certainly find some of the civil war relics that were missed by the metal detectorists. But wait.... In areas where the metal detectorists have recovered all targets in their range, there are still deeper targets that they could not see because of the limtations of their detectors. This means that an LRL can still find the treasures that were missed by conventional detectors deep in the ground as well as the shallow items that were missed. Remember... these items are buried more than 200 years, so no LRL should have any problem finding them.

So here is the challenge that can prove your LRL can work or not:
Take your alleged working LRL to the battle areas of the north-south civil war lands in the USA and use it to find buried metal items with witnesses watching and filming your recoveries. You can check the targets with a conventional metal detector to see what your LRL missed (if anything).

Can you do this with your LRL? I think not. So prove me wrong!

Best

Witnesses... maybe there are many but isn't enough, only few can be reliable? and other (include me) lie?

No need to probe in prohibited sites. You are right about test sites, I do test in battlefield too. This kind of copper coin (I found 34 in the same place, battlefield. Here just 14 because I bury 4 for test field and 16 was distributed to friends and landlord). I found with an absoption system pistol at some meters.

[Esteban]

This kind of object (cuted coin and other object don't know what is) was found at few meters, only 3, with absorptive system.

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Esteban

This kind of object (cuted coin and other object don't know what is) was found at few meters, only 3, with absoptive system.

Did you use a conventional metal detector to pin-point and retrieve such a small target?

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Theseus

Did you use a conventional metal detector to pin-point and retrieve such a small target?

Yes, main when target extends the angle. This occurs with absorptive and antenna types and also deppend of kind of circuit used. Some telescopic antenna system pinpoint very well, but rectangular or circular aluminium loop not very well. This pistol is for medium range (only some meters) and the search head is used as MD (is part of a MD) for to find the unburied item mixed in the sand. Another based on oscillator (can be resonance-off) is more precisse than absorptive.

[Steve in MS]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Witnesses... maybe there are many but isn't enough, only few can be reliable? and other (include me) lie?

No need to probe in prohibited sites. You are right about test sites, I do test in battlefield too. This kind of copper coin (I found 34 in the same place, battlefield. Here just 14 because I bury 4 for test field and 16 was distributed to friends and landlord). I found with an absoption system pistol at some meters.

So LRL works on other non-ferrous metals, not only gold.
Some have given the impression that LRL only finds gold.

[Max]

Originally Posted by Steve in MS

So LRL works on other non-ferrous metals, not only gold.
Some have given the impression that LRL only finds gold.

If we wanna use immagination... it could also point at something say... Angelina Jolie!

That way could seems something smart rod !

Or not ?

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by J_Player

OK... there is a way to test any LRL:

We have been told that an LRL must have a long-time buried metal target to detect, (meaning more than 50 years). We also know it is hard to find reliable areas to find long-time buried targets. The problem is most of the fabulous treasures have already been found by LRLs and hidden by the people who found them. Also, these fabulous treasures are probably illegal to search, so the LRL users are not willing to talk much about their illegal finds. So how can we make a good test to see if the LRL really works? There is a way:

In the southern part of the USA there is a large area of land where a civil war was fought more than 200 years ago. During these times, the militia wore clothes that had metal buttons and used firearms which shot lead bullets or balls. There are many thousands of artifacts in the form of metal buttons, buckles, gold bars, silverware, bottle caps and hundreds of other items buried in the ground in these battlefields and encampments that were used by the soldiers of the US civil war. There are so many artifacts that metal detectorists come every year to see how many artifacts can be found in the battlefield areas.

Now think about it... The best relic detectors are VLF metal detectors, which may have a depth sensitivty of maybe 16 inches or more. People using PI machines may get a little more depth to find buried relics. but suppose the deepest metal detector only finds relics as deep as 20 inches. Let's also suppose that not all the relics have been found, whether they are deep or not. Consider... there are more relics found in these battlefields every year at shallow depths, and deeper depths, which proves they have not all been found.

Now, if an LRL really works to find long-time buried metals, then it will certainly find some of the civil war relics that were missed by the metal detectorists. But wait.... In areas where the metal detectorists have recovered all targets in their range, there are still deeper targets that they could not see because of the limtations of their detectors. This means that an LRL can still find the treasures that were missed by conventional detectors deep in the ground as well as the shallow items that were missed. Remember... these items are buried more than 200 years, so no LRL should have any problem finding them.

So here is the challenge that can prove your LRL can work or not:
Take your alleged working LRL to the battle areas of the north-south civil war lands in the USA and use it to find buried metal items with witnesses watching and filming your recoveries. You can check the targets with a conventional metal detector to see what your LRL missed (if anything).

Can you do this with your LRL? I think not. So prove me wrong!

Best

That´s great

Next hollydays i travel to AMERICA Lets find some civil war relics !!!