mineoro fg/90

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

It's not often that I agree with Hung, but in this case he has a point.

Let's have a reminder of the forum rules:

The term "remote sensing" is used to describe scientifically viable methods of detecting geophysical anomalies from a distance. It is also used to describe the less scientific method of "long-range locating", which is engulfed in controversy.

Note the sentence referring to "long-range locating". If you make outlandish claims then you must expect to be challenged. There is no need to get upset. Just state your case and move on.



This forum is for the open discussion of either method. Because LRL-oriented forums can quickly degrade into personal conflicts, this forum will be strictly controlled. Rules are still simple:

• You must be a registered user to post here. Guests may read.
• Be polite. Name calling will get you banned quickly.
• Be factual. If you make an extraordinary claim, be prepared to get challenged.

In general, try not to take differences of opinions personally.

Recently this Remote Sensing Forum has degraded into a circus. In general we do not like to moderate this forum closely, although I have occasionally removed certain attachments.

Now here's the most important part:

Postings considered to be inflammatory can be reported to Admin by clicking the little red triangle icon at the top of each post. Please use this only when absolutely necessary... I would like to keep this forum as open as possible, and do not care to mediate every conversation.

... and nobody has reported a single post during the recent circus! Therefore the assumption is that everyone is happy with the current postings?

Please can I ask everyone to cool it regarding the jokes, etc., and let's try to focus on the technical aspects of remote sensing and LRLs, whatever you consider them to be.

Thanks again to Hung for pointing out the degradation in quality of recent posts.

You know when postings are inflammatory or not?

Humm! But if somebody don't let it, well, is better stop with technical aspects.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Esteban

You know when postings are inflammatory or not?

Humm! But if somebody don't let it, well, is better stop with technical aspects.

I'm not sure what you're saying., but basically this forum is left to fend for itself, unless anyone raises an objection by reporting inflammatory posts. If it was closely monitored then admin would have a full-time job deleting posts and banning users.

By the way, Carl has not been away from the forum or not caring about it. The decision to add a second admin person was taken after the demise of Geotech during the Christmas period, when hackers managed to bring the site down for several weeks. Since then we have added further safeguards to prevent spamming and other unwanted nuisances. You may have noticed the improvement in the sevice. Now we just need the Remote Sensing Forum members to do their bit and quit posting inflammatory remarks. This means everyone.

[Max]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

I'm not sure what you're saying., but basically this forum is left to fend for itself, unless anyone raises an objection by reporting inflammatory posts. If it was closely monitored then admin would have a full-time job deleting posts and banning users.

By the way, Carl has not been away from the forum or not caring about it. The decision to add a second admin person was taken after the demise of Geotech during the Christmas period, when hackers managed to bring the site down for several weeks. Since then we have added further safeguards to prevent spamming and other unwanted nuisances. You may have noticed the improvement in the sevice. Now we just need the Remote Sensing Forum members to do their bit and quit posting inflammatory remarks. This means everyone.

Inflammatory ???

And who say what's inflammatory and what's not ??? Who will enstablish rules about ???

I mean... it's really personal point of view... and what's for me humor can be inflammatory for someone else...

Also, what's an unverified and unbelivable claim can be good and safe for those who belive in that... and VERY INFLAMMATORY to people that need proofs and facts like me.

Now... what's more inflammatory... that I say sometimes that someone plays with PaloAlto... and jokes like that (that are obviously jokes and don't pretend to be truth, of course) or that someone that say gold has DNA , or that a coin can be detected with an homemade pile of junk at 70meters ???

Inflammatory... we are not talking of gasoline and napalm here (or maybe yes?) but of something that become what people feel about.

So if I can stop any time with my stupid jokes can them stop polluting here with wild claims and impossibile ship-wrecks detection at 1mile under seawater done with a well known scam device ???

Victimism! just post a serious schematic, design, idea and physics theory and I will leave any joke for good... otherwise don't make claims here and pretend don't be challenged, even wildly and with jokes (why not ?), by me (and others).

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Max

Inflammatory ???

And who say what's inflammatory and what's not ??? Who will enstablish rules about ???

I mean... it's really personal point of view... and what's for me humor can be inflammatory for someone else...

Also, what's an unverified and unbelivable claim can be good and safe for those who belive in that... and VERY INFLAMMATORY to people that need proofs and facts like me.

Now... what's more inflammatory... that I say sometimes that someone plays with PaloAlto... and jokes like that (that are obviously jokes and don't pretend to be truth, of course) or that someone that say gold has DNA , or that a coin can be detected with an homemade pile of junk at 70meters ???

Inflammatory... we are not talking of gasoline and napalm here (or maybe yes?) but of something that become what people feel about.

So if I can stop any time with my stupid jokes can them stop polluting here with wild claims and impossibile ship-wrecks detection at 1mile under seawater done with a well known scam device ???

Victimism! just post a serious schematic, design, idea and physics theory and I will leave any joke for good... otherwise don't make claims here and pretend don't be challenged, even wildly and with jokes (why not ?), by me (and others).

Kind regards,
Max

There is one class of posts that nobody wants to read....
Not skeptics, not LRL proponents, and not casual visitors who come to read the forum.

This is the class of posts that makes no reference whatsoever to anything technical that anyone posted, and no reference to the topic of the thread, and is directed against a single other person using vulgar or derogatory language and images. This class of post carries no information of any value whatsoever, and is of no interest to anyone except the people who are sending these messages. The net result is these posts clog up the forum with a bunch of stupid stuff and make it hard for readers to find the technical information they are looking for.

We can safely eliminate this class of post without requiring any judgments to determine whether they are near the borderline of needing to be removed or not. I am sure nobody will miss these posts. And removing them will clear the forum for easier reading without having to hunt through pages of nothing to find something worth reading.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Max

Inflammatory ???

And who say what's inflammatory and what's not ??? Who will enstablish rules about ???

I mean... it's really personal point of view... and what's for me humor can be inflammatory for someone else...

Also, what's an unverified and unbelivable claim can be good and safe for those who belive in that... and VERY INFLAMMATORY to people that need proofs and facts like me.

Now... what's more inflammatory... that I say sometimes that someone plays with PaloAlto... and jokes like that (that are obviously jokes and don't pretend to be truth, of course) or that someone that say gold has DNA , or that a coin can be detected with an homemade pile of junk at 70meters ???

Inflammatory... we are not talking of gasoline and napalm here (or maybe yes?) but of something that become what people feel about.

So if I can stop any time with my stupid jokes can them stop polluting here with wild claims and impossibile ship-wrecks detection at 1mile under seawater done with a well known scam device ???

Victimism! just post a serious schematic, design, idea and physics theory and I will leave any joke for good... otherwise don't make claims here and pretend don't be challenged, even wildly and with jokes (why not ?), by me (and others).

Kind regards,
Max

I agree that it's very difficult to define the term "inflammatory", as everyone's interpretation may be different. Claims of detecting a ship-wreck 1 mile underwater, using some unknown pseudoscience, could also be considered a joke. However, there has been a flood of very silly jokes recently that many are finding quite tedious to read, resulting in members adding others to their ignore list. This is not very productive, and everyone needs to just use some commonsense when posting, and try to be more politically correct. Both Carl or I have better things to do than closely police this forum.

On the other hand the meeting between Geo and Morgan was a great event inspired by the Geotech Remote Sensing Forum. Whether you like or dislike what you saw in the videos is another story, but this is the sort of collaboration that should be going on here. I'm sure that skeptics and LRL believers will continue to agree to disagree for many years to come. But let's do it politely.

[Max]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

I agree that it's very difficult to define the term "inflammatory", as everyone's interpretation may be different. Claims of detecting a ship-wreck 1 mile underwater, using some unknown pseudoscience, could also be considered a joke. However, there has been a flood of very silly jokes recently that many are finding quite tedious to read, resulting in members adding others to their ignore list. This is not very productive, and everyone needs to just use some commonsense when posting, and try to be more politically correct. Both Carl or I have better things to do than closely police this forum.

On the other hand the meeting between Geo and Morgan was a great event inspired by the Geotech Remote Sensing Forum. Whether you like or dislike what you saw in the videos is another story, but this is the sort of collaboration that should be going on here. I'm sure that skeptics and LRL believers will continue to agree to disagree for many years to come. But let's do it politely.

The videos ??? The jokes were not about the videos!

But anyway... lets be more "politically correct"... why not ?

But about ignore lists... it's all fake... they play victimism each time things become harder...

Yes jokes, of course, but what is that ?

Is not a joke ?

And is it politically correct ?

Just someone that read could these posts could also belive it's truth and buy then one of that fine Mineoro's devices...

Why not... let be politically correct!

Let people read here and spend thousand dollars for their fools gold...

Then usefulness of this forum will be sacrificed to this "politically correct" idea... why not ?

I'll do that way.

Kind regards,
Max

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Max

Just someone that read could these posts could also belive it's truth and buy then one of that fine Mineoro's devices...

Why not... let be politically correct!

Let people read here and spend thousand dollars for their fools gold...

Then usefulness of this forum will be sacrificed to this "politically correct" idea... why not ?

I'll do that way.

Kind regards,
Max

Hi Max,

I'm not saying that you cannot disagree with the LRL claims. Of course you can do that. In fact, as a skeptic, it is your duty to assist the technically challenged. I wouldn't expect anything else...

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by Max

The videos ??? The jokes were not about the videos!

But anyway... lets be more "politically correct"... why not ?

But about ignore lists... it's all fake... they play victimism each time things become harder...

Yes jokes, of course, but what is that ?

Is not a joke ?

And is it politically correct ?

Just someone that read could these posts could also belive it's truth and buy then one of that fine Mineoro's devices...

Why not... let be politically correct!

Let people read here and spend thousand dollars for their fools gold...

Then usefulness of this forum will be sacrificed to this "politically correct" idea... why not ?

I'll do that way.

Kind regards,
Max

Hi Max

Its realy amazing that Esteban can detect one single coin at 70m distance. But with Alonso Pistoldetector this distances are not possible.
Unfortunatly the LRL videos are not convincent specialy for the skeptics,anyway i insist to tell you and Forum that PD works and me or Geo not use any kind of fake sistem to deceive and make people here believe in something that is impossible.

Regards

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Morgan

Hi Max

Its realy amazing that Esteban can detect one single coin at 70m distance. But with Alonso Pistoldetector this distances are not possible.
Unfortunatly the LRL videos are not convincent specialy for the skeptics,anyway i insist to tell you and Forum that PD works and me or Geo not use any kind of fake sistem to deceive and make people here believe in something that is impossible.

Regards

Was pistol made by Alonso, but no has much depth. Was PD but without ferrite. In remote area, no interferences. And never I claim a shipwreck at 1 mile.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

I agree that it's very difficult to define the term "inflammatory", as everyone's interpretation may be different. Claims of detecting a ship-wreck 1 mile underwater, using some unknown pseudoscience, could also be considered a joke. However, there has been a flood of very silly jokes recently that many are finding quite tedious to read, resulting in members adding others to their ignore list. This is not very productive, and everyone needs to just use some commonsense when posting, and try to be more politically correct. Both Carl or I have better things to do than closely police this forum.

On the other hand the meeting between Geo and Morgan was a great event inspired by the Geotech Remote Sensing Forum. Whether you like or dislike what you saw in the videos is another story, but this is the sort of collaboration that should be going on here. I'm sure that skeptics and LRL believers will continue to agree to disagree for many years to come. But let's do it politely.

When somebody use words as "haggard" (the real fact is that I use dark lenses!) and other words against the person, isn't inflammatory this? If not inflammatory, is nazism! No victimism, nazism!

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Esteban

When somebody use words as "haggard" (the real fact is that I use dark lenses!) and other words against the person, isn't inflammatory this? If not inflammatory, is nazism! No victimism, nazism!

Hi Esteban,

I don't understand what you're trying to say. I have searched for the word "haggard" in the forums, and it cannot be found except in your post above. By the way, the word "haggard" means "wild looking", especially from fatigue or worry. It doesn't seem inflammatory at all.

Anyway you should see a decrease in the spamming you've been receiving recently. Please keep posting the results of your experiments.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Hi Esteban,
Anyway you should see a decrease in the spamming you've been receiving recently. Please keep posting the results of your experiments.

Yes,
Nice to see the spamming gone. I was going to reports some spam a while back, but it seems to have disappeared. Nice to know somebody is taking care of business here.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Hi Esteban,

I don't understand what you're trying to say. I have searched for the word "haggard" in the forums, and it cannot be found except in your post above. By the way, the word "haggard" means "wild looking", especially from fatigue or worry. It doesn't seem inflammatory at all.

Anyway you should see a decrease in the spamming you've been receiving recently. Please keep posting the results of your experiments.

Deppend of context, but is attack to the person. I'm not refered to Palo Alto and others...


http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15716&page=6



http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15742

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

I'm not sure what you're saying., but basically this forum is left to fend for itself, unless anyone raises an objection by reporting inflammatory posts. If it was closely monitored then admin would have a full-time job deleting posts and banning users.

By the way, Carl has not been away from the forum or not caring about it. The decision to add a second admin person was taken after the demise of Geotech during the Christmas period, when hackers managed to bring the site down for several weeks. Since then we have added further safeguards to prevent spamming and other unwanted nuisances. You may have noticed the improvement in the sevice. Now we just need the Remote Sensing Forum members to do their bit and quit posting inflammatory remarks. This means everyone.

You know that I try to be serious, but can't do nothing causes disturbances. Filter now is enable. I understand that always the advice is against LRL experimenters/promoters, etc. But maybe you're part of the "skeptical club", and maybe this is the "reason" that you are not in the middle point. In understand. But remember: I'm not the person who ever start disturbing others.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Esteban

You know that I try to be serious, but can't do nothing causes disturbances. Filter now is enable. I understand that always the advice is against LRL experimenters/promoters, etc. But maybe you're part of the "skeptical club", and maybe this is the "reason" that you are not in the middle point. In understand. But remember: I'm not the person who ever start disturbing others.

I totally agree, and I hope you will get a chance to be serious from now on without disturbances. Personally I enjoy seeing the results of your experiments. I may not agree with the results, but I have never joked about them.

Yes - I am a skeptic, but if I was an LRL believer I would not be in the middle point either.

[Max]

Originally Posted by Esteban

You know when postings are inflammatory or not?

Humm! But if somebody don't let it, well, is better stop with technical aspects.

Hmmmmm..... no circus... no humor... then just technical ???

ok lets back to technical...

I'll be glad to see a complete schematic or tuning instruction set by you...

If will happen I mean... I don't hold breath for it...

I asked you a number of times about technical stuff regarding LRLs... never get a complete answer ! My fault ??? My bad attitude ???

You guys made the mess each time posts that you can e.g. detect a coin at 2 or 70 meters... doesn't matter...just out of "normal" or "human" md ranges...and I added just humor and jokes... nothing more.

Each time someone challenge you and that's not just you Esteban but all LRL belivers and pretenders you start this victimism here...

Old story...

Kind regards,
Max

[WM6]

Originally Posted by Max

Hmmmmm..... no circus... no humor... then just technical ???

ok lets back to technical...

I'll be glad to see a complete schematic or tuning instruction set by you...

If will happen I mean... I don't hold breath for it...

I asked you a number of times about technical stuff regarding LRLs... never get a complete answer ! My fault ??? My bad attitude ???

You guys made the mess each time posts that you can e.g. detect a coin at 2 or 70 meters... doesn't matter...just out of "normal" or "human" md ranges...and I added just humor and jokes... nothing more.

Each time someone challenge you and that's not just you Esteban but all LRL belivers and pretenders you start this victimism here...

Old story...

Kind regards,
Max

Agree 100%. Here, I believe, nobody is against undiscovered science. In contrary. But must be science not something between religion, fairy tale, David Copperfieldism and fraudism (continued more or less disguised advertising mineoro and others fraudulent boxes).

Our kidding's are less for our enjoyment, and not in order to defend our skepticism, but primarily to protect the naive members here against propaganda tricks which ultimate goal is selling worthless goods by rude prices.

If the background would not be commercial but seriously deal with an undiscovered science, it has long away to seen here working schematic of these terrible LRL devices, but we have not and obvious will not too. We saw only a technical comics. Why, then, would not laugh?

So: Be factual. If you make an extraordinary claim, be prepared to get challenged.

And they are challenged nothing else.

They're not victims at all.

Victims are naive buyers of of expensive LRL crap.

As always.

Regretfully.

I can only repeat:

There is only one answer to all LRL believers, LRL promoters, LRL sellers, LRL producers and their Lawyers: come to my "regio" (testing field) and repeat such dummy tricks. I am willing to buy 20 gr gold medal with the inscription "LRL WINNER", and buried only 5 cm deep in soil, and if you manage to find it with any of yours LRL crappy toys, medal is yours. That medal is really buried at the end we prove by ordinary Chinese metal detector. And this is not all, I will add my written apology and promise to promote LRL in future.

So stop by blah blah loading here and prepare instead yourself on the real controlled test.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by WM6

Our kidding's are less for our enjoyment, and not in order to defend our skepticism, but primarily to protect the naive members here against propaganda tricks which ultimate goal is selling worthless goods by rude prices.

If you are referring to your spoof LRL posting, then please don't misunderstand me. This was not one of the jokes in question. In fact, you may remember that I also posted a spoof pseudo-scientific description of the Ranger Tell Examiner some years ago, and it actually got posted on their website as as an excellent description of the underlying "science". How naive!

To most people here your posting was obviously a spoof, and quite funny. LRL proponents could also see that, and could simply choose to ignore it. Unfortunately there were some members here who did believe it to be real. This was due to English not being their first language, or maybe not good enough to see that it was "tongue-in-cheek". So sometimes you have be careful.

Some LRL manufacturers, who post here, often get a hard ride, but I'm sure they have thick skins and get the same treatment elsewhere as well. It comes with the territory. However, the amateur experimentors should be given more leeway, and allowed to describe their experiments without constant barracking.

Hope you understand my concern.

[WM6]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Hope you understand my concern.

I think you are doing what administrator have to do.

It must be some clarification from time to time.

I hope we all are open minded with different knowledge and experience. This is what we are here. To exchange our knowledge and experience. But there is a line that delineating the technical knowledge from religion. It is hard to exchange religion beliefs and experience between believers and technical skeptics if believers provide only religion in different form.

Of course religion per se is not problem, this is a private matter, until it not try to sell itself costly. When this happens, they offer itself in the comment. Here we are.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by WM6

Agree 100%. Here, I believe, nobody is against undiscovered science. In contrary. But must be science not something between religion, fairy tale, David Copperfieldism and fraudism (continued more or less disguised advertising mineoro and others fraudulent boxes).

Our kidding's are less for our enjoyment, and not in order to defend our skepticism, but primarily to protect the naive members here against propaganda tricks which ultimate goal is selling worthless goods by rude prices.

If the background would not be commercial but seriously deal with an undiscovered science, it has long away to seen here working schematic of these terrible LRL devices, but we have not and obvious will not too. We saw only a technical comics. Why, then, would not laugh?

So: Be factual. If you make an extraordinary claim, be prepared to get challenged.

And they are challenged nothing else.

They're not victims at all.

Victims are naive buyers of of expensive LRL crap.

As always.

Regretfully.

I can only repeat:

There is only one answer to all LRL believers, LRL promoters, LRL sellers, LRL producers and their Lawyers: come to my "regio" (testing field) and repeat such dummy tricks. I am willing to buy 20 gr gold medal with the inscription "LRL WINNER", and buried only 5 cm deep in soil, and if you manage to find it with any of yours LRL crappy toys, medal is yours. That medal is really buried at the end we prove by ordinary Chinese metal detector. And this is not all, I will add my written apology and promise to promote LRL in future.

So stop by blah blah loading here and prepare instead yourself on the real controlled test.

Do you believe that somebody will expend money in travels thousands kilometers, hotel, etc., to your patio for an only medal? Your proposition is very unbelievable.

Be factual.

[WM6]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Do you believe that somebody will expend money in travels thousands kilometers, hotel, etc., to your patio for an only medal? Your proposition is very unbelievable.

Be factual.

If I am factual, Carl living closer to you, and his proposal for demo of working LRL is still open. 10.000 dollars as I remember, you cannot be in debt (if you not chose Las Vegas for testing field of course).

Another factual possibilities. You send your best LRL to person of your trust near to me, no need of long and expensive travel, only one day visit and they will be my guest. I hide medal (20 gr medal cost 1000 Eur tell me at jewelry - dream (never) finding for most detectorist) in an area of about football field size. Ten minutes piece of cake for all mineoros, but they have three full hours to find medal. I'm going to withdraw (prepare for picnic) so that I will neither help nor disturb. Video will be taked by someone who does not know where the hidden medal is, you can take with your own cameraman too. After three hours of not finding medal, we will find it with cheap Chinese or more cheapest homemade detector. Mean very simple test, no tricks, no "as scamming on TV" shows, only pure factual reality: LRL is working or LRL is not working.The weather may be of your choice, so no excuses on humidity etc.

Can be more factual?

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by WM6

If I am factual, Carl living closer to you, and his proposal for demo of working LRL is still open. 10.000 dollars as I remember, you cannot be in debt (if you not chose Las Vegas for testing field of course).

Another factual possibilities. You send your best LRL to person of your trust near to me, no need of long and expensive travel, only one day visit and they will be my guest. I hide medal (20 gr medal cost 1000 Eur tell me at jewelry - dream (never) finding for most detectorist) in an area of about football field size. Ten minutes piece of cake for all mineoros, but they have three full hours to find medal. I'm going to withdraw (prepare for picnic) so that I will neither help nor disturb. Video will be taked by someone who does not know where the hidden medal is, you can take with your own cameraman too. After three hours of not finding medal, we will find it with cheap Chinese or more cheapest homemade detector. Mean very simple test, no tricks, no "as scamming on TV" shows, only pure factual reality: LRL is working or LRL is not working.The weather may be of your choice, so no excuses on humidity etc.

Can be more factual?

You forget that this gold medal need to be buried, and only after many years phenomenon grow enough for LRL to detect the medal ...
Of course in your conditions is impossible for any LRL to find the object.

[WM6]

Originally Posted by Morgan

You forget that this gold medal need to be buried, and only after many years phenomenon grow enough for LRL to detect the medal ...
Of course in your conditions is impossible for any LRL to find the object.

OK, I will hide now and than we will see us on test in one of next life.

Please don't reincarnate yourself as Tartuffe.

But interesting, on your field gold can be freshly buried and your LRL beeps, on my terrain gold have to be buried at least 500 of years to give your LRL enough phenomenon to detect. Phenomenal.