Lrl from Italy

[FrancoItaly]

FrancoItaly does this simple teardown, worth also for HEF4046 PLL-LRL version or only for your 8Mhz quartz version ?



Question: Does R2 should be increased from 220K to 470K, 560k, 680k or even 1M or not ?
Does C1 should be increased from 22nF to upper value 47nF, 100nF, 470nF or need stay the same value or maybe less ?

Sincerely
Dubulumach

This is for 8Mhz and for CD4046 version, R2=220K and P2=1M, C1 is no critic but high values (220nF or 470nF) could slow down the search, I think 47nF is the optimal value.

[Dubulumach]

Thank you FrancoItaly.

Integrator stage is critical for correct speed response.

Would you like to help me to identify all components from your 4046 PLL-LRL picture attached above in my pre-previous post ?

And one personal question: What do you think about PDK version 2,3,4 from Mr.Morgan from Portugal ? His PDK worth 5K pound (sterling) building and tuning or not ?


Sincerely
Dubulumach

[FrancoItaly]

FrancoItaly does this simple teardown, worth also for HEF4046 PLL-LRL version or only for your 8Mhz quartz version ?



Question:
1. Does R2 should be increased from 220K to 470K, 560k, 680k or even 1M or not ?
2. Does C1 should be increased from 22nF to upper value 47nF, 100nF, 470nF or need stay the same value or maybe less ?

ps Dubulumach:
If there is inversion signal problem with output from HEF4046 (leg 2 on schematic above), could be solved easy by puting NPN transistor BC183C in emmiter-follower configuration and inverted signal by 180 degrees, picked directly from low impendance emiter transistor's leg in single joint point with 1st low pass filter stage R3-C4, and after the LF filter to non inverting input (plus sign) of LM358.

I think putting additional amplifier with transistor T5 as BC183C in high gain amplifier stage, could give more amplification and easy the job of HEF4046 ic - phase and amlitude measurement.

Mr.FrancoItaly what do you mean about my little tips ?

Sincerely
Dubulumach

As I said I'm not in Italy and for at least a month I will not come back and still stay a few days. The lrl CD4046 version is also in Italy in my lab and I do not like the reverse engineering (also of my project), also because I did it several years ago and I remember very little about that project. I suggest you make the printed circuit for the 8Mhz version with the exclusion of the oscillator part (double face pcb with bottom face connected to ground) and on another PCB the part related to the CD4046 and make connections with shielded cable.
I'm not familiar PDK, several years ago I built but without success.

[Dubulumach]

Thank you FrancoItaly.

BTW - "Lrl from Italy" is the best topic on http://www.longrangelocators.com, imho. Good example of Italian engineering.

Best regards
Dubulumach

[HaFar2010]

Hello
Dear Franco
I joined this thread recently. I want to build your LRL, please share its PCb and etc.

Thanks.

[FrancoItaly]

Thank you FrancoItaly.

BTW - "Lrl from Italy" is the best topic on http://www.longrangelocators.com, imho. Good example of Italian engineering.

Best regards
Dubulumach

Thank you for your compliments. I want to remind all new members that the "phenomenon" is still a mystery not recognized by "official" science and that it does not seem to behave the same way in various countries around the world. Even in Greece there are those who managed to make it work and who did not succeed. It is necessary to say that for metals shortly buried the intensity of the phenomenon is weak and it is sufficient to adjust the threshold for a sensitivity just below the maximum that the signal disappears. That is why it is important to calibrate the lrl for maximum sensitivity before the self-oscillation.

[FrancoItaly]

Hello
Dear Franco
I joined this thread recently. I want to build your LRL, please share its PCb and etc.

Thanks.

look this:

http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showpost.php?p=155574&postcount=1742

This is all the material, the only PCB is that related to the sensor stage and is the most critical one, the other PCBs can be made in several ways. I work in the old and I do not use the PC to make schemas and PCBs, almost always drawing directly on copper, so I have no drawings of other PCBs.

[Dubulumach]

FrancoItaly, Thank you for your valuable informations.

Does anybody here know what "the phenomenon" exactly is ? , and how LRL man should behave in strong "phenomenon field" ?
I have heard from the different sources, that in the nights of full moon, there are colorful "fire tongues" rising from the depths of underground where the old treasures had been hidden. Some people called it "the COLD FIRE phenomenon"

Please, good fellows here, share with us new LRL novices about your practical experiences. And of course instructions and tips how to find and detect "phenomenon".

Thanks
Dubulumach

[kaligula]

Franco, does will change something if I put for example 4 mhz oscillator at the place of 8 mhz or there will not be big difference in catching phenomenon?

[FrancoItaly]

Franco, does will change something if I put for example 4 mhz oscillator at the place of 8 mhz or there will not be big difference in catching phenomenon?

I tried 3-4-5-6-8 and 10Mhz quartz and all work well.

[Dubulumach]

I tried 3-4-5-6-8 and 10Mhz quartz and all work well.

Does it mean that "phenomenon" is not frequency dependent ?

What about the gold frequency 60kHz-70khZ ? How is it related with HF quartz oscillations ?

Best regards
Dubulumach

[kaligula]

I need something like this up to 100 khz to see whats going on

https://image.ibb.co/bKLciw/Screenshot_2017_10_11_18_29_55.png

[FrancoItaly]

Does it mean that "phenomenon" is not frequency dependent ?

What about the gold frequency 60kHz-70khZ ? How is it related with HF quartz oscillations ?

Best regards
Dubulumach

I don't think that there is a direct connection between phenomenon and quartz frequency.
I'm also not sure there is a frequency or band of frequencies related to gold. I think the phenomenon can interfere with a wide range of frequencies, from VLF to infrared. My lrl receives signals in the bandwidth of 100Mhz but I do not think there is a transmitter that transmits on this frequency, otherwise pointing it in the direction of the broadcaster would be a strong signal, which does not happen. However, if there are transmitters or repeaters in the vicinity, the lrl is practically unusable. In large lines this is the operation of my lrl (I refer to quartz version):
a small part of the signal from TR1 is amplified by TR2, TR3 and TR4, D1 and D2, TR5 make the signal continuous. the phenomenon is received from the antenna and applied to TR2, the heart of lrl. Mixing occurs here, somehow the signal coming from the oscillator is increased as amplitude and this results in an increase in the output signal. The signal from the oscillator to the base of TR2 partially goes to ground through C9 and C10 (and also L1). In the presence of the phenomenon, the signal that goes to mass decreses and then increases that is amplified by the transistor.

[Dubulumach]

thank you Francoitaly

Yes, if your words are truth, than "the phenomenon", should be some kind of noble metal noise, beacuse it has very wide range of frequencies, from VLF to infrared, and maybe much much higher.

My questions for you FrancoItaly

How did you connected two side antennas, to main lrl telescopic-whip antenna ?


Whay you didn't used very high gain, very high impendance, darlington structure from two bc183c, with 10Meg biasing resistor to catch very tiny phenomenon signal at input.



M thinking, tell me that the Monocrystalline Silicon Crystal was directly responsible, for detecting tiny phenomenon from gold, silver and other precious metals. I think it is directly proportional with volume of silicon. Biger Monocrystalline Silicon Crystal, should give better detection of phenomenon, because there is greater number of phenomenon particles interacting in same unit of time in volume of Monocrystalline Silico. This imply that we must use many bc183c hf transistor in parallel, to increase effective volume of detection area.



How to find gold, with your LRL, FrancoItaly ? Any tips welcomed ?

Thanks
Dubulumach

[FrancoItaly]

thank you Francoitaly

Yes, if your words are truth, than "the phenomenon", should be some kind of noble metal noise, beacuse it has very wide range of frequencies, from VLF to infrared, and maybe much much higher.

My questions for you FrancoItaly

How did you connected two side antennas, to main lrl telescopic-whip antenna ?


Whay you didn't used very high gain, very high impendance, darlington structure from two bc183c, with 10Meg biasing resistor to catch very tiny phenomenon signal at input.



M thinking, tell me that the Monocrystalline Silicon Crystal was directly responsible, for detecting tiny phenomenon from gold, silver and other precious metals. I think it is directly proportional with volume of silicon. Biger Monocrystalline Silicon Crystal, should give better detection of phenomenon, because there is greater number of phenomenon particles interacting in same unit of time in volume of Monocrystalline Silico. This imply that we must use many bc183c hf transistor in parallel, to increase effective volume of detection area.



How to find gold, with your LRL, FrancoItaly ? Any tips welcomed ?

Thanks
Dubulumach

Yes the 3 antenna are connected together, as regards the use of more BC183 in parallel it's an idea to try.