Some consideration

[FrancoItaly]

Hi All

Please read my first post of this thread, I said "Who does not believe in the "phenomenon" is please do not post" and I still want to add, those who have realized my LRL or modified or designed another one of his LRL should post the schematic or a block diagram. I've posted the complete project of my LRL because I think a lot of collaboration and why I think this is the main purpose of this forum. I spend most of my time in the build, modify and test my LRLs. There are different types of lrls but I think mine is easier to achieve as there are no coils to align or sensors that are hard to find or special ferrites.

Best Regards

[epsilon]

Hi all, I'm very glad to be here, so Thank you.
I live in Italy, Liguria, IM province (near Sanremo).
This year I've bought my first MD (ace 250) and started to search little objects and coins on the beach (the easiest way to make experience).
In an italian MD forum I've read by FrancoItaly (s......n51) and his explanations about LRL; very interesting.
I'm naturally curious and tuned abuot alternative approach.
FrancoItaly, if possible for you, contact me in MP.
Thankyou all, thankyou Franco (forgive my poor english )

[FrancoItaly]

Hi Epsilon,

Wellcome, You can emali to me "sandokan51@libero.it"

Best regards

[WM6]

I've posted the complete project of my LRL because I think a lot of collaboration and why I think this is the main purpose of this forum.

Hi Franco

Except hung's spitting all other posts are some sort of collaboration. J_P explanations are example of good and friendly collaboration. We all wish you success. Not blind believer success, but proven real success.

Sorry, but in your case, what you see (or what you wish to see) is not what you really got. As J_P pointed: you are talking about phenomenon, but at the same time, you haven't idea what you sense/measure in reality.

Glorification instead of constructive critics, will not help your electronic creation to work as real LRL. Beliefs are not enough to get LRL working.

You have unsustainable beliefs only, as many other "LRL inventors" before. But I can agree with your initial thread request: beliefs and religious questions are not a matter of rational debate.

[Mike(Mont)]

No, Hung has it right. The paid assassins on this forum probably funded by the metal detector industry or worse yet, what boils down to paying off some skeptic attack group as a tax-free donation. You see how many hours this bunch has spent trying to discredit the locators. Thousands of hours. If the locators didn't work there would be no skeptics.

[WM6]

If the locators didn't work there would be no skeptics.

On other side: if the locator's work, there would be no need for beliefs that those creations work, cause constructor will know for sure that his LRL really work and will be able to prove this repeatedly in correct tests.

Now we are faced with explanations: "I believe that my LRL works."

If test shows different, there are 1000 excuses why not (wrong continent, wrong country, wrong county, humidity, noise somewhere, to low exhilaration, bad feelings, bad part of the day, earthquake somewhere, to hot, to wet, not long buried, need MD for pinpointing, Alzheimer circuit, parkinson vibration, power line somewhere, UFOs, full Moon, sun eruptions, army activity, ancient curses, pirate ghost around etc...

[FrancoItaly]

Hi WM6

You says "As J_P pointed: you are talking about phenomenon, but at the same time, you haven't idea what you sense/measure in reality."
You are right, I haven't idea what is really the phenomenon and I don't know exactly What I sense but I know that when my lrl beeps some meters further I find a metal buried and this is what is really important, all the rest are useless words.

Best Regards

[Geo]

Hi WM6

You says "As J_P pointed: you are talking about phenomenon, but at the same time, you haven't idea what you sense/measure in reality."
You are right, I haven't idea what is really the phenomenon and I don't know exactly What I sense but I know that when my lrl beeps some meters further I find a metal buried and this is what is really important, all the rest are useless words.

Best Regards

...............

[WM6]

You are right, I haven't idea what is really the phenomenon and I don't know exactly What I sense but I know that when my lrl beeps some meters further I find a metal buried and this is what is really important, all the rest are useless words.

Best Regards

I believe you, FrancoItaly, that all is, as you say.

But you manage with electronic devices, not simple divining rod, and electronic devices work according laws of physics, not by unknown magic phenomenon.

Checking your schematic, I cannot see how it can works and sense something out of known electronic/electromagnetic principle. Even simple inductor in schematic, can in some design proposition act as simple magnetometer. You are near to this, cause you have inductor in your design. Try to shield it using magnetic shield as mu-metal and you will see, how your phenomenon will disappear.

I am sure that what you sense/measure can be explained inside known laws of physics and that you are deceived by phenomenon misinterpretation. As many others before you.

[WM6]

...............

Geo, I explained and demonstrate such strange phenomenon here:

http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showpost.php?p=131087&postcount=105

Sure, I wish to applaud to some working LRL too, but for now, I can't.

[Nicolas]

If test shows different, there are 1000 excuses why not (wrong continent, wrong country, wrong county, humidity, noise somewhere, to low exhilaration, bad feelings, bad part of the day, earthquake somewhere, to hot, to wet, not long buried, need MD for pinpointing, Alzheimer circuit, parkinson vibration, power line somewhere, UFOs, full Moon, sun eruptions, army activity, ancient curses, pirate ghost around etc...

Yes dear WM6 Right for this we are here and in others Forum to find and make research for these excuses.

How to cancel these excuses??? only one way is testing LRL by peoples in different country and weather and ...etc... for this we ask to share knowledge

Sample I know so much peoples build LRL Circuit designer by FrancoItaly and said Work in different country and continent like Middle East. Africa and Europe

Find continuously ...
َAnd the responses of skeptics like what he said Franco rejected
This theme dedicated to the definition and delve into the terraced find an effective device for making

[WM6]

From present (simple enough to hobby builder) concepts and design, I can find enough interesting, to rebuild and test it, in first line GG AL-707.

Without of kilometer sensing expectation, of course, but maybe couple of meters for bigger deposits could be achieved by proper make and tunning.

[J_Player]

Hi J_Player,
You're right it is 8 years that I have been interested LRL but now I have what I need, a stable LRL without false signals even if for different reasons, including health reasons, I have not been able to do extensive research in the fields, however, I found several metals, mainly composed of brass. But this is enough to show that the LRL works well. Concerning the phenomenon it certainly exists and is the one that allows to metals buried for a long time to be detected at a distance. You can also call it "disturbance" or "modulation" of an existing field, telluric currents, RF emissions, background noise, and so on. If you do not accept this fact and you use scientific laws to demonstrate that the phenomenon does not exist you will no doubt be in good company. In this forum there are many people who are experts in the field of physics and electronics, but in the real field have made a few steps with something homemade.
Best Regards

Hi Franco,
I did not use scientific laws to demonstrate that the "phenomenon" does not exist.
I used the results of calibrated instruments to demonstrate that the people at Mineoro were giving us false information when they defined the "phenomenon".
There is no science which says the "phenomenon" does not exist, we only need to take measurements to see that it does not.
The rest is well documented history, not by science.
We have witnessed a long history of the people from Mineoro planting fake jewelry, hiding transmitters to make magical beeps, and staging false demonstrations to convince people to believe the "phenomenon" and their "substance classifier" so they will pay thousands of euros to Mineoro for their equipment.
There is no science needed to learn the truth about the "phenomenon".
There are only the historical facts which anyone can observe.

If you were to actually read the posts I made earlier, you would see I never disputed the fact that your locator can beep when it comes near buried metal.
You will also find that I claim there are several phenomena responsible which can cause these beeps, and that long range locating does exist.
My point is that the different phenomena which can cause various locators to beep at locations where metal has been buried a long time is not caused by the "phenomenon" which Mineoro defined.
The detection is caused by a number of the phenomena which I described listed under the consequences and secondary effects of buried metal corroding.
Most of these phenomena which I described were already known 40 years ago, and up too 100 years ago. A few of them are more recent discoveries.
What has changed is in the past 20 years, modern electronics has become much better developed, especially in improved sensors and signal processing hardware, which makes detection of these small natural signals much easier to detect, and more affordable for an experimenter.

However, you are correct.
When you started this thread, you stated: "Who does not believe in the "phenomenon" is please do not post".

I open this new thread to take stock of the situation. I appeal to all those who believe in the "phenomenon" and who want to contribute with ideas and projects. The starting point is that the phenomenon is as real as can testify Esteban, Morgan, Geo, Andreas, Hung, Nicolas and others, including myself. Who does not believe in the "phenomenon" is please do not post. Thanks to Andreas that reminded me of the work of Louis Rota and remembering the gun isotopes of Dr. Bickel and other scientists who have studied this phenomenon, I think it's plausible the idea that cosmic rays have a crucial role. They have a high energy and can easily penetrate into the soil. Buried metals absorb this energy and it accumulates over time and is emitted from the metals. Each metal transforms this energy according to its atomic composition and so there is a "signature" of each metal that emits this energy. In addition, this energy propagates north south axis and this indicates that importance of Earth's magnetic field, which drives this energy. Probably the phenomenon has high energy but our Lrls reveal only a "secondary energy" in the PD Alonzo the ferrite coil is affected by a variation of the magnetic field, in Crypton Andreas there are infrared radiation, in my LRL there are variations of the electric field. We can build an LRL that simultaneously measure changes in the magnetic field, in the electric field and infrared radiation and compare the values. In this way, perhaps it is possible to distinguish between metals and eliminate noise (sky and compass effect). Another way can be to find the main energy, probably in the microwave and even higher up, such as gamma rays, but at these frequencies we hobbyists can do little.

The non-scientific evidence I stated above has convinced me that Alonso and Damasio simply made up the concept of the "Phenomenon" and their "substance classifier" to serve as marketing tools to sell their expensive locating equipment. I believe they already knew their equipment was beeping because of other known effects that come from long-time buried metals. But they invented the "Phenomenon" to fool people to believe they were the designers of new mysterious floating ion locators only their equipment could discriminate.


However, in order to conform to your thread requirements, I will now become a "Phenomenon" believer.
Then we can talk about the mysterious "phenomenon" and be happy that there are no dissenters in the conversation.
But my new belief in the "Phenomenon" is only applicable to this thread
And ...
My belief in the "Phenonenon is only applicable until someone can make a post in this thread to prove I am wrong to believe in the "Phenomenon".
In all other threads I will post as common sense dictates.

Comments from a new "Phenomenon" believer:
To start out as a new believer in the "Phenomenon", I can make a correction to your first post so you have a more accurate idea of the "Phenomenon":

...remembering the gun isotopes of Dr. Bickel and other scientists who have studied this phenomenon, I think it's plausible the idea that cosmic rays have a crucial role. They have a high energy and can easily penetrate into the soil".

I can tell you first hand information about the role of the cosmic rays.
In one of several long conversations with Dr. Bickel, he told me about the role which cosmic rays have in his detection of the "Phenomenon".
What he said is "cosmic rays are noise which can caus interference in my measurements".
He then turned on his LRL and showed me the readings he was getting, and he detailed what each component was.
He explained what were the desirable components, and what were false noise signals.
He talked about the energy levels of cosmic rays, and how these are unwanted in his detection, along with solar activity which also made it difficult to get accurate measurements.
He mistakenly attributed these signals and noise to a number of phenomena that he and his scientist associates learned at a German university before WWII (Of course he was talking about his measurements of the "Phenomenon", which he was not aware of at the time because the "Phenomenon" had not been invented yet).

This surely adds some clues to eliminate noise, and more proof that the "Phenomenon" is real.

Best Wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

Hi WM6

You says "As J_P pointed: you are talking about phenomenon, but at the same time, you haven't idea what you sense/measure in reality."
You are right, I haven't idea what is really the phenomenon and I don't know exactly What I sense but I know that when my lrl beeps some meters further I find a metal buried and this is what is really important, all the rest are useless words.

Best Regards

Hi Franco,
Please do not be concerned for the fact that you haven't an idea what you sense/measure in reality.
We are talking about the "Phenomenon".
And we all know from past experience that the "Phenomenon" is real, which means that what you sense/measure is also real.
We have detected beeps near buried metal... this is our proof...!
If evil skeptics try to dissuade you to believe that you do not know, then ignore them.
We Phenomenon believers know better than to be tricked by evil skeptics.
When we hear beeps, then we got proof that the "Phenomenon" is real.

Best Wishes,
J_P
(true believer ... at least, true believer in this thread)

P.S. Eat your heart out, Qiaozhi ... we got proof... ain't no fairy tales here...!

[FrancoItaly]

Hi J_Player,

Maybe there was a misunderstanding between us, in fact I call this phenomenon that allows the remote detection of buried metal and not the explanation of Alonzo who gave a pseudo-scientific explanation for what is probably not even he understood. I really appreciate your work to try to understand the scientific basis of the phenomenon that would be useful to increase the performance of Lrls.

Best Regards