Bionic X4

[Geo]

Thanx Geo and wish you and Andreas most good luck (of course Morgan, too!) in developing the for the moment best possible "special detectors".

Thank you
Although it is difficult to display details from my LRL there are two basic problems which prevent us to work and study in depth the LRL.
One is that there are many people who read the forums and are ready to seize every idea and develop a clone on the market
The other is the ironic criticism done by some "know all" skeptics.
So we try slowly-slowly alone

Regards

[Geo]

This product is to deliver entertainment for recreational activities and this is what you pay for
Regards,

So OKM ask 10000 Euro only as recreational activities?????

[wam]

Hi, I do not claim that LRL is bad idea, I have one for my self. I can call it LRL because it locate metal object size about 1.5m from 50m away each time and every time, so no bionic woodo but electronics phisics and maths. If I can do it so others can as well. Just tell what is your target sample, what range of detection and what probability of detection for this range.Is it to much to ask? Can you say that Your LRL detects metal box from 20 m every time? My LRL can detect coin underground from 10cm every time.
Do not get upset,

[J_Player]

Europe is a place of law. It is illegal to sell a product which does not work.
So far customers do not sue OKM and there was no prosecution because LRL are working according to the specification. Every buyer can check his complains with the lawyer. Just ask any lawyer to read product instruction and verify if information is true. The case is that manual not clearly states that LRL does not work as a Long Rang Locator. Long Range Locator is not a product specification, it is a name of the product. If you read instruction carefully, you can find that long range location/detection is not a product functionality. This product is to deliver entertainment for recreational activities and this is what you pay for, law does not protect people who do not want to check what they pay for.

....I do not claim that LRL is bad idea, I have one for my self. I can call it LRL because it locate metal object size about 1.5m from 50m away each time and every time, so no bionic woodo but electronics phisics and maths. If I can do it so others can as well. Just tell what is your target sample, what range of detection and what probability of detection for this range.Is it to much to ask? Can you say that Your LRL detects metal box from 20 m every time? My LRL can detect coin underground from 10cm every time.
Do not get upset,

This is exactly correct.
I have found no LRL manufacturer who makes claims that their equipment will locate gold item at long distance. They only imply that they can find gold at long distance. In the case of the Bionic X4, we can read on their web page under the General Description and we will find nowhere that they claim it will find gold objects at a long distance. http://www.okmmetaldetectors.com/pro...x4.php?lang=en
The closest they come is to say:
"By using the Bionic X4 you can locate the place where a high probability of gold may be buried under the ground".

What does that mean in a court?

Does it guarantee finding treasure?
No. That is not what they claimed. Their claim was about probability of buried gold.
You have no basis to sue anyone if you don't actually recover gold.

So what is the science and math in OKM products?
According to people who have taken them apart, they are cheap magnetometers arranged as a directional gradiometer, and an ion chamber similar to the hobby chambers made from small metal parts. Then electronics are added to cause displays to beep and show text. While OKM claims the ion chamber detects radiated ions from long time buried things, it is doubtful this is possible from a coin-sized object at long distance. We are left with a magnetometer to locate things at more than a few inches, and the ion detector to add confusion to the circuit if there are no ions being collected from nearby ion sources.

The magnetometers begin to give us a clue to what these products can do. We know if you have a large enough non-ferrous object buried in the ground, it can displace the natural magnetic field enough to make it detectable as void detecting. Geologists often map large objects which they find when using magnetometers. But what about the usual treasure hunt where there is no chunk of gold 1.5 meters buried in the ground? Maybe the buried treasure is a small gold coin... Then your magnetometer will not detect it unless you move very close.
Is this beginning to sound familiar?

Read what is claimed for the X4 on the OKM web page:
The main applications of this gold long range detector are:

• Detection of natural gold, i.e. gold nuggets, gold dust, gold veins, alluvial gold or gold ore in hard rock and quartz
• Detection of buried gold, i.e. gold jewelry, gold statues, gold rings, gold coins or gold bars (gold bullions)

They do not say these things are detected at long distance. They only say these are the main applications. If you detect a 20-ton gold deposit in the ground the same as a magnetometer can detect from some distance, then this would be evidence that the X4 is used in the detection of gold in this application. If you detected a gold coin buried 1 cm deep in iron-rich soil from a distance of a few cm, this would be evidence it is used in the detection of a gold coin in this application.

Can a $200 magnetometer also perform in this manner?
I think so if it is wired as a gradiometer and configured to be directional.
But I think you could get better results if you used more expensive magnetometer sensors than the $25 fluxgate parts that OKM uses.

A more important question is "can this technology help anyone find treasure"?
Of course it can. If magnetometers did not help to locate buried things then geologists would not use them. However, they are seldom used by treasure hunters except in cases where magnetometer readings are appropriate, such as finding a void or a very large buried object or mapping ruins. I cannot imagine anyone using one to find a buried coin. You could find the buried coins and jewelry much easier using a metal detector. Even large meteorites are hunted with very expensive PI metal detectors by meteorite hunters, rather than using a magnetometer to find them.

As we see, OKM has not made a false claim. There is no reason to sue them for anything since they stopped making false claims in their literature some years ago. If anyone thinks these are guaranteed to find treasure, then the problem is because they failed to read what is claimed.

But what about results we hear from treasure hunters?
Empty holes and a lot of false detection is the result that nearly everyone reports who has used OKM products. They also report that the OKM does not detect gold which they later recover using other gold detecting tools. Anyone can easily verify this by checking with Morgan or reading the forum posts here in the remote sensing forum or in the geophysics forum. The only credible reports I read of OKM locators working well is when they detect large voids like a cheap gradiometer does.

We saw the inside of some of the OKM products, which confirm that they are cheap magnetometers just as the people who used them described. The actual claims I read on the OKM page for this Bionic X4 is that it is interfaced to smart phones. This tells me they added more electronic interface to make pictures on a mobile phone from the same cheap magnetometer crap. Then we see their video showing absolutely nothing except some guy wandering around with an X4 in his hand and music in the background. Does this convince you that these are good treasure hunting tools that you need to pay more than $10,000 for?

If anyone wants to buy one of these after reading our forums and the manufacturer's description and watching their video, maybe they really are rich, and they don't want some $200 magnetometer that does not make pictures on their smart phone. Maybe the cool pistol shape with the mobile phone showing images can make them happy and help to instill a sense of prestige. I wonder if we will ever see some treasure recoveries they make when using OKM products?

Let's look through some forum posts to see what people here reported about their experience with the OKM products:

Originally posted by Carl-NC here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...57&postcount=6
"I tend to agree about OKM's reputation... I've heard a lot of complaints about them, at least on the forums. Is that the company that advertised a device as being a GPR, when it was really a magnetometer? Now that's something you can get sued over".

Originally posted by BigBang here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...35&postcount=2
OKM 4000 or 5000 are only named GPR for easy commercial . Because of profit expectaions . But not real GPR

Originally posted by schatzsucher here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...72&postcount=1
Inside you find magnetic field sensors and an radar sensor KMY 10. The radar sensor cannot goes in to the earth. Not with this frequency, but the firm sell the system as GPR.

Originally posted by Morgan here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=44
"So,it was this man Manolo´s friend,who want to convince people that OKM lrl works...
This is realy BIG SCAM,this piece of crap is useles and cost IO.OOO EURO.
OKM people should be shame,and this LRL agent in Italy also !!!"

Originally posted by bulsack here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...31&postcount=1
OKM is a low grade magnetometer with software that creates some fancy worthless pictures.

Originally posted by Jim here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=32
"I think the video with the operator dropping the ring on a rope onto the ground after they turn over the lump of dirt shows intentions of fraud".

Originally posted by Great Alex here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...3&postcount=10
the OKM products are over price and they don't work as they advertised by the OKM company , but they work even as a low quality magnetometer .

Originally posted by hung here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...45&postcount=2
'Reputable' and 'credibility' are not the best terms to describe them.
They are being charged and sued by Mineoro for trying to copy their trademark names, products and concepts.
Besides that, mineorogreece took them to court sometime ago for a product which did not work as advertised. He got his money back.
How's that for a start?

Originally posted by Congogold here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=32
...My scans show orange in almost every scan anywhere I scan- obviously I can't be seeing gold everywhere and i can't dig everywhere.
I have reads the manual many times and still can't tell the difference between gold and heavy mineralization or ferrous metals! It is driving me crazy...
I am in prime gold country- i buy plenty from artisanal miners who find their gold the old way- I can't seem to get results with the technology at all.

Originally posted by valchev here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...&postcount=107
If You find money for GPR do not buy from OKM. OKM do not produce real GPR, onely advertisements and useless machines.

ivconic's photos show inside of crappy OKM future 2003/5 here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showt...=OKM#post80373

Originally posted by Infamy here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...3&postcount=75
"How many hoards can you name that have been found with lrl-s h i t? "

Originally posted by ishtar hunter here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...32&postcount=1
worked 14 years with many devices But neither performance was not good for depths up.
I have exp4000 (okm) but Performance is not good.

Originally posted by aban here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...13&postcount=5
donot buy okm machin it cannot detect in deep and it is fruad only.

Originally posted by Alexismex here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...5&postcount=12
Also here in Mexico I have friends you bought this piece of crap junks from OKM....This Cassbiz it is another seller from OKM....we have found many treasures !!!!ah ah ah....
and do not trust OKM people to give back your money they are bandits ...bandidos...de vrais crapules

Originally posted by bulsack here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...85&postcount=3
Let's say somebody is to build the $150 magnetometer featured on this website ,hookes it up to a free or cracked 3D program. How would it be different than the OKM that costs as much as a brand new Mercedes-Benz?

Originally posted by Christian here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...47&postcount=6
From what I have been reading on the various internet boards for years now, nobody who has ever bought this unit has made any reasonable findings. Infact I think that the Fluxgate project to be found on this website is much better engineered and operating then any OKM device.

Originally posted by ivconic here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=26

It is true! That's why this forum is so great - saves your money!

Make EPE gradiometer and you will have nice and interesting device that you can use and understand it's wotking principles.
And all that for small money.
Basically EPE ($150) is very simillar to OKM Gems (4200 euros !!! )

Originally posted by Astrodetect here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=17
Would you like to see what sensor is in the Rover C unit?
Check it out and see for yourself.
So Mr Frank please explain how your unit is functioning and what exactly does it detect? We all know that this sensor will only detect ferrite metals and voids.


Here is what's Astrodetect showed us is really inside bionic products.... a cheap Honewell fluxgate magnetometer:



Here is a sequence of photos from one of the OKM scam demonstrations where they showed it beeping at a shovel:




So far nobody has made a live demonstration of OKM products recovering gold from places where they didn't know where the gold is.
But we have read the reports where it failed to find gold on real treasure hunts which was later recovered from places the Bionic products could not detect it.

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

Very good analysed J_P, thanks.

[Funfinder]

Very good analysed J_P, thanks.

Not very good, but good and not good enough.

User-opinions have nothing to do with scientifical proofen tests.

Look at the large product selection on the OKM page.
All those around 15 detectors are scam, don't work???

The huge price may be a bad joke but those display-driven "GPR" (radar waves are bad reflectable within soil) or gradiometer detectors are new generation and they have very high sensitivity.

So what do we have here?
A company that want's to ruin its reputation concerning his working detectors with some bad Bionic fraud objects? You really think this?

How often shall I repeat it that there are already real working LRLs but this stuff works very unreliable and the Bionic X4 will be no difference.

And for shure everyone can sue OKM if this Bionic doesn't works.

Because it depends what kind of criminal intention is behind something.

Persons for shure are not interrested in buying that Bionic if it's just the same short range detecting like any usual MD. And if OKM suggests it will detect on a much further distance and it doesn't they are fooling and betraying persons who are searching a tool with SPECIAL abilities!

btw. all those harddisk resellers should be sued, too, those liars! We are living in the year 2011 and everyone! is dealing with real megabyte, gigabyte or terrabyte and if I wanna buy a 2 TB harddisk I dont wanna get only 1.860TB which is around 7% less!

And if OKM likes to cheat persons so they start to think their Bionic stuff is really long range detecting and this is not true 100% FOR SHURE I and everyone else can sue or punish them directly!

to copy and make clones is the big problem

Morgan, for whom? Why don't exists any Mineoro clones? I guess because it would be just a waste, if it doesn't work reliable anyway.

And usually it depends on trade marks, patents, open domain, money making and alot other marketing stuff.

However the not really fair "good business" always had piracy and theft as counterpart and sometimes the pirates have had more moral and ethics than the greedy business-man!

Concerning electronics or software it always depends how "important" and worthful to protect something is.

In most cases all those "owner-rights" shall go to hell because they make just problems as we can see with p2p, the film, game and music industry and how arrogant they're acting against the consumer or safety-backupers.

Shure, the inventor(s) should get their reward for their good work, but not over hundred of years and not by creating monopoles.

All those f**** licences and stuff makes everything just extremly expensive and destroys the free development and improvement.

Where will we end if every little electronical circuit would be protected by law? Nowwhere.

And it's the biggest joke of all to protect not working LRL circuits!

[J_Player]

Hmmm...
It seems everyone in Geotech knows that OKM products are not a very good choice for treasure hunting.
They can easily read all the reports from users who tell about their disappointment from OKM.
Funny how everyone seems to understand that OKM can help to find buried things no better than a directional gradiometer except Funfinder, who expects other people to sue OKM.

Why is this?
Why would Funfinder expect other people to perform scientific tests to his satisfaction and then sue the OKM company?
We all know OKM never claimed people can recover treasure from long range with their equipment, so why would Funfinder want me or anyone else to sue them?

We don't need to look too far to find the answer.

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=136589&postcount=1

http://www.youtube.com/user/CryptonGreece

We can see here a working LRL that is based on the known principle of electrolytical current EM wave distortion but it also works under moist conditions.

This unit will be produced in Greece in a few weeks/months and I will test and support it for middle europe...

It begins to become clear that Funfinder is preparing to become an LRL dealer in Europe.
Does this put a new light on why he would want to see other people sue OKM company?

The question now arises: What kind of competition will OKM offer to the Greek LRL that Funfinder is peddling?
Can it be that difficult to compete against OKM? After all, most treasure hunters already know bionic locators perform like a cheap gradiometer.
If this is the same level of performance we can expect from his OBMD-1 Greek LRL, then it may be good to keep a close watch on what he is peddling.


Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

OKM is half time fraud company.

Or more juridical: they have to can be fraudulent subjectivity.

[Funfinder]

J_Player wrote:
It begins to become clear that Funfinder is preparing to become an LRL dealer in Europe.

You really saved my day!

And of what do you dream at night?

No, I don't wanna be a dealer or a reseller, all what I want is that we can be shure those are real functional methods and if so real working LRLs shall starting to exist and I have no problem if after this real working LRLs would be available.

But what we know already about the work with them (Hungs coconut site, Ingas not working OKM Bionic and Morgans not findable ship wrecks...) we will have a hard time with this stuff anyway and working with such units could be "no fun" or better "the beginning of alot problems, useless efforts and huge frustrations" and personally I prefer detectors that will cause no "further problems".

[J_Player]

J_Player wrote:
It begins to become clear that Funfinder is preparing to become an LRL dealer in Europe.

You really saved my day!

And of what do you dream at night?

No, I don't wanna be a dealer or a reseller, all what I want is that we can be shure those are real functional methods and if so real working LRLs shall starting to exist and I have no problem if after this real working LRLs would be available.

But what we know already about the work with them (Hungs coconut site, Ingas not working OKM Bionic and Morgans not findable ship wrecks...) we will have a hard time with this stuff anyway and working with such units could be "no fun" or better "the beginning of alot problems, useless efforts and huge frustrations" and personally I prefer detectors that will cause no "further problems".

Funfinder you are a LIAR!

We see your post announcing that you will test and support the new CryptonGreece LRL in Europe... You posted it here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18232

You cannot pretend it is not true after you told us you will test and support it for middle Europe.
That is a flat out lie! ...We see your forum post...!

But it is worse... you have no respect for copyrights and proprietary ownership of circuits. You believe it is ok for you to steal other people's circuits to do what you want with them regardless of patents or copyrights.

Scroll up and read your words. "...all those "owner-rights" shall go to hell because they make just problems as we can see with p2p, the film, game and music industry..."

Are you aware that Carl-NC has made provisions to stop copyright thieves? Do you really think it is ok to steal other peoples work and post it in his forums when they say it is proprietary?

Maybe you don't care about international copyright laws, but you should take a look at what Carl-NC has said about taking other people's circuits and pretending you own them.

Good luck with your LRL venture.
Don't pretend you are not on a venture to promote LRLs... we see your post here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18232

Best wishes,
J_P

[Funfinder]

F

unfinder you are a liar

J_Player, - question: Have the LRL topics fully fried your brain?
We know already, to where all of your assumptions are leading: to nothing!

[Funfinder]

Oh by the way - just meant satiric / ironic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBjtghitGOM

And please J_P leave Carl out of the business, or do you like intrigue like a woman?
You and your misleading: "ripped out of the context quotes".

Anyway - I don't think not working circuits which are used to create fooling people products or have just experimental wannabe status have the right for protection, for any protections at all.

[J_Player]

Ummm... Funfinder...

You told us you are going to test and support a Greek LRL manufacturer
Now you say your words are only assumptions...

Who are you trying to fool?
We are not that stupid.
We can read what you wrote.

Nobody here has any brain problems.
We know very well what you wrote in the Geotech forums.
We see your long post to tell your reasons why owners of copyrights can "go to hell"

Stop pretending we are assuming things and read your own words:

Morgan, for whom? Why don't exists any Mineoro clones? I guess because it would be just a waste, if it doesn't work reliable anyway.
And usually it depends on trade marks, patents, open domain, money making and alot other marketing stuff.
However the not really fair "good business" always had piracy and theft as counterpart and sometimes the pirates have had more moral and ethics than the greedy business-man!
Concerning electronics or software it always depends how "important" and worthful to protect something is.
In most cases all those "owner-rights" shall go to hell because they make just problems as we can see with p2p, the film, game and music industry and how arrogant they're acting against the consumer or safety-backupers.
Shure, the inventor(s) should get their reward for their good work, but not over hundred of years and not by creating monopoles.
All those f**** licences and stuff makes everything just extremly expensive and destroys the free development and improvement.
Where will we end if every little electronical circuit would be protected by law? Nowwhere.
And it's the biggest joke of all to protect not working LRL circuits!

Do you expect anyone to believe you respect copyrights?

Can you honestly tell us you will not be representing an LRL manufacturer in Europe?
What do your words mean here? "This unit will be produced in Greece in a few weeks/months and I will test and support it for middle europe.
btw. I don't care if it's based on some old Mineoro circuit like Morgans pistol detectors..."
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...89&postcount=1

Best wishes,
J_P

[Sven104]

beautiful it is here, the company okm discussed and their cheap products.

it does not fall only on employees but also to save the. Most data in the company but have no idea about the products they build there, the workers are just so helpful to see the device also. Poor processing of the housing and electronics. The whole device is actually held only by hot glue and glue.

in the old Bionix are for example the circuit boards installed.

http://www.conrad.com/Lie-detector---kit.htm?websale7=conrad-int&pi=190055&ci=SHOP_AREA_17619_2420110&Ctx=

no idea what a lie detector in such a device is installed, this is probably the Bionic measurement methods.

in the rover deluxe is already established as the FLC 100 and also built in part by

http://whites.co.uk/3900-pro-plus.html

see the rover deluxe coil same and the same display as before Bionix.

because you can buy cheaper but the same device that can not be less.

though most appliances are very old just got a new housing each year. so that the customer is thrilled to again and buys a new device,

and with each new product is made in the secret advertising forums, all of which was found.

[GOLDY]

BIONIC 01

I wouldn't throw my money at that Bud there is absolutely no scientific way of that device finding any inca gold anywhere especially under the ground they just pulling the wool over your eyes. Scam artists.