need mfd

[ma330]

hi jp
You can design for my post number 38 with IC xr2206 Instead of 8038?
with respect

[Dedevil]

Thanks Geo

Excellent ciruit diagram of your LRL. Is this your own design? Which program did you use to draw the diagram?

rgds

Just a question? In your schematic after the Ls888tx1 what is the purpose of the output of the R/C circuit.

rgds

[ma330]

Hi J_P.
It is not so simple!!!. Don't think that if you will keep 2 Lrods at your hand then you will find any buried. It needs many experiment.
As for schematic... i attached one LRL with generator and it works.

Regards

HI GEO
I can not see your files.
Please put your files in RAR format
TANK YOU

[Dedevil]

Questions, questions?

Hi Geo

I still do not understands from your schematic posted above as you say R/C if for feedback from pin2?
Is this voltage or magnetic type?

This is a very different type of LRL

rgds

[Geo]

Just a question? In your schematic after the Ls888tx1 what is the purpose of the output of the R/C circuit.

rgds

Hi.
I don't remember at who post you refered..

Regards

[Geo]

HI GEO
I can not see your files.
Please put your files in RAR format
TANK YOU

I mean this...

http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18466

[michael]

It turns out this TDA7294 amplifier is even more interesting than I thought.
Aside from being a very low distortion high power amplifier, it runs on a dual power supply that the signal generator IC can share with it.
This means you can use the two 12v batteries like Michael has in his Bulgarian LRL to run both the TDA7294 power amp and the signal generator.
The output from this amp will be higher because of it's 24 volt supply instead of the 12v that the signal generator is using above.
But this is not a problem, the 8038 signal generator is good for up to 30 volts each side of the supply.
So we can plug it into the same supply and send the signal to the TDA7294 all on the same board if we want.
This seems quite convenient for MFD builders.

This amplifier is intended to drive typical speakers from 4-8 ohms. Since the ground usually has much higher impedance, We cannot expect to put the full 100 watts of power into the ground.
But since it can handle up to 100 watts, it seems a good candidate for a step-up transformer to increase the voltage at the probes to get more power into the ground.
Of course, power transistors could do this too. The main difference is this IC is able to maintain a very clean signal without distorting it at power levels, and it is on a single IC.
When we start sending more power out, we can expect the amplifier to heat up, so we need a heat sink that will carry the heat away.
The image below shows a typical heat sink used on an audio amplifier.
But this could be made smaller, especially if you include a fan to circulate air through the fins, similar to how computer fans work.

Because this IC matches up so well to the 8038 signal generator, I show some concepts of how you could hook it up below.
This is not a circuit I tested, but I think it may work if I didn't get any mistakes in the connections.

In the circuit you can see I changed the two capacitors that set the frequency for the 8038 to a bank of 6 capacitors with a rotary switch to select which frequency you want.
You can fill in any capacitor values for your favorite frequencies.
There is also an option to make adjustments to the frequency at pin 4 on the 8038, or you can leave it in the original design.
You can also see where the transformer goes.
You can choose the transformer type depending on the soil conditions.
I think you will have a wide range of soil impedance depending on ground mineralization and how wet the soil is.
For this reason, I doubt any one transformer would be suitable for all soil.
But at least you have some control at the power knob.
Another option would be an adjustable auto-transformer that you can change to suit the soil.
But don't forget the batteries.
When you put out more power, you need bigger batteries.

Keep in mind that Michael's Bulgarian MFD locator uses this same amplifier, but he was able to detect nothing ever, even though he could measure the signal in the ground up to 2 meters distance.
And that is exactly what I think you will detect with this MFD detector... Nothing.
If you think I am wrong and this circuit really can locate treasure, prove me wrong.


Best wishes, J_P

Hi J_P.
I should add that LRL200D at first could detect our hidden test targets more or less. at first the box consisting TDA729 became so much hot, but after that we did something maybe a big mistake .... it's long story.
I'm sure have put the story somewhere in this forum, but couldn't find it with advanced search. you can use keywords: " LRL2000D or STK435 or Notsi" for more than 6 years ago. can you find those posts? I guess are useful.

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.
I should add that LRL200D at first could detect our hidden test targets more or less. at first the box consisting TDA729 became so much hot, but after that we did something maybe a big mistake .... it's long story.
I'm sure have put the story somewhere in this forum, but couldn't find it with advanced search. you can use keywords: " LRL2000D or STK435 or Notsi" for more than 6 years ago. can you find those posts? I guess are useful.

Hi Michael,
I expect your box would become hot if the amplifier is putting out very much power.
This is why I posted warnings about heat sinks, and better to include a fan to carry the heat away.
The large heat sink you see in my image above is used on some audio amplifier applications to drive speakers, not for connecting to probes that you put into the ground.
One problem with using this amplifier for a ground probe generator is the possibility of accidentally shorting the rods together.
This can easily happen if the rods are dropped, and they fall to the ground where they are contacting each other.
There are other ways that could cause the probes to draw a large current from the amplifier too.
The TDA7294 has a built in thermal overload protection, but I would not rely on it to prevent damage to the circuits inside a Bulgarian LRL.
Your post describing what happened is here: http://www.longrangelocators.com/for...&postcount=223

From what you said in that post, it seems there was a failure which caused the signal generator frequency to become unchangeable.
But is sounds as if you also had a malfunction with the amplifier.
This makes me wonder if the Bulgarian manufacturer was using Chinese counterfeit components that are not capable of performing to the standards of the genuine ICs from the ST microelectronics factory.
I am guessing the amplifier IC failed, and caused the signal generator circuit to fail at the same time.
In any case, it does not cost much to make your own version of a signal generator and power amplifier for a lot less cost than the Bulgarian product.

One question:
In your years of experimenting, did you find that extra power improved your ability to detect from long distance?
Or did you find that your best detection was found when using a simple one or two 9v battery version MFD generator?


Best wishes,
J_P

[michael]

Hi J_P.
Thank you.
I had more and more posts about MFDs; LRL 2000D, homemade transmitter,..... may you put threads link?
what should I add Is that box would become very hot which we had to cool box with wet piece of cloth to decrease temperature.
Afterwards we thought better to open the box, we just simply opened box and closed again, without any handling, after turning on it never warmed up and couldn’t hit test targets it remaind cold even after hours working. I took it to my e.e friend, checked out frequency for all options, got all have single 249 KHZ . my friend checked all parts and found a simple interconnection or something like this. he told op-amp is working well, has no problem, but had no justifying explanation about temperature,....
My friend had a radio generator. He asked me to prepare one STK435 for op-amp to access more and better output, so I did it.
BTW; TDA had a a big heat-sink

Q: In your years of experimenting, did you find that extra power improved your ability to detect from long distance?
A: Honestly it’s hard to state about this, as all places we searched by MFDs had no treasure cos after getting MDL we searched all places.
The hot locations we found by MDL had never been searched before that by MFDs; already we had left them in closet and never used.

Q:did you find that your best detection was found when using a simple one or two 9v battery version MFD generator?
A:Before LRL200D I personally never had MFD, but I had friend who was individual, unbelievably capable to find hidden gold tests everywhere. He had a homemade MFD with 3 probes which put in ground It was working with a single 9V. He could pass all type of my hard blind tests. I personally never could track anything with his MFD.
He would believe that this matter depends on blood types and believed O types are the best in this matter. Himself was O type, me not. Maybe he was right.
god have mercy upon his soul. we missed him.

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.
It is not so simple!!!. Don't think that if you will keep 2 Lrods at your hand then you will find any buried. It needs many experiment.
As for schematic... i attached one LRL with generator and it works.

Regards



Originally posted by J_Player
Hi Geo,
This is excellent information.
Can you post a list of the experiments that are necessary to find buried treasure for ma330?
When he finishes performing the experiments that you show, then he will find treasure the same as you find treasure.

Also, I do not see your attachment for LRL with generator schematic that works.
Can you post that too?


Best wishes,
J_P

Hi Geo,
You did not answer the question for experiments that are necessary.
You have posted that you know what are the experiments that are necessary to detect treasure when using MFD.
No other MFD user has put these experiments in the forum.
The MFD techniques that Carl-NC posted, and techniques that MFD users posted show only the methods to use when holding the rods to find treasure.

Will you be listing these experiments that ma330 needs to perform in order to find treasure with an MFD generator?
Or are these experiments a secret?


Best wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

hi jp
You can design for my post number 38 with IC xr2206 Instead of 8038?
with respect

Hi ma330,
The XR2206 does not fit so well with the TDA7294 like the ICL8038 does.
The XR2206 has a maximum voltage of 26 volts, which is too close to the 24 volt supply.
There is a danger you will burn this IC if you are using freshly charged 12v batteries which can easily exceed the 26v absolute maximum that is allowed.

So we cannot simply plug in the XR2206 like we can for the ICL8038.
But there is a worse problem. The XR2206 is hard to find.
The only available supplies I have seen are Chinese counterfeit ICs which I do not use.

If you can find XR2206, then you will do well to make a circuit design that has a 12 or 18v supply for this IC.
I think it is easier to use the same ICL8038 that Carl-NC recommends.


Best wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.
Thank you.
I had more and more posts about MFDs; LRL 2000D, homemade transmitter,..... may you put threads link?
what should I add Is that box would become very hot which we had to cool box with wet piece of cloth to decrease temperature.
Afterwards we thought better to open the box, we just simply opened box and closed again, without any handling, after turning on it never warmed up and couldn’t hit test targets it remaind cold even after hours working. I took it to my e.e friend, checked out frequency for all options, got all have single 249 KHZ . my friend checked all parts and found a simple interconnection or something like this. he told op-amp is working well, has no problem, but had no justifying explanation about temperature,....
My friend had a radio generator. He asked me to prepare one STK435 for op-amp to access more and better output, so I did it.
BTW; TDA had a a big heat-sink

Q: In your years of experimenting, did you find that extra power improved your ability to detect from long distance?
A: Honestly it’s hard to state about this, as all places we searched by MFDs had no treasure cos after getting MDL we searched all places.
The hot locations we found by MDL had never been searched before that by MFDs; already we had left them in closet and never used.

Q:did you find that your best detection was found when using a simple one or two 9v battery version MFD generator?
A:Before LRL200D I personally never had MFD, but I had friend who was individual, unbelievably capable to find hidden gold tests everywhere. He had a homemade MFD with 3 probes which put in ground It was working with a single 9V. He could pass all type of my hard blind tests. I personally never could track anything with his MFD.
He would believe that this matter depends on blood types and believed O types are the best in this matter. Himself was O type, me not. Maybe he was right.
god have mercy upon his soul. we missed him.

Hi michael,
Another post you made is here: http://www.longrangelocators.com/for...&postcount=222

But I do not see your other posts for a transmitter and for STK435.
It is interesting, the TDA7294 in your Notsi locator had a heat sink, but this heat sink was enclosed inside the box which did not allow the heat to escape.
When this amplifier is used for stereos, we usually see holes put in the case so air can circulate to allow the heat to escape into the air.
I have seen other designs where the heat sink is attached to the outside of the stereo box so fresh air could circulate at the metal fins to remove the heat.
If you stopped seeing any heat, then it means the IC stopped producing power that causes heat.
If your EE friend says the TDA7294 is not damaged, then it is possible that heat destroyed the microprocessor where the signals are generated, and where the control for the TDA7294 comes from.

If you are lucky, maybe you can get a replacement for the processor that is already programmed to work with the 2000D.

The STK435 is another amplifier that was designed to run stereo speakers.
This is a dual amplifier, with a 7 watt right channel and a 7 watt left channel.
Since you only need a single channel, you can use only half of this IC.
Or you could connect it to make two separate outputs that could drive 4 ground probes.

7 watts is usually enough power to run most stereo speakers that people use in their home or in their car.
It is also more power than most MFD generators need.
This IC will not develop nearly as much heat as the TDA7294 amplifier at 100 watts.
Since the consensus among MFD users is high power is not important, it does not surprise me that this amplifier was adequate for your experiments.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Hi Geo,
You did not answer the question for experiments that are necessary.
You have posted that you know what are the experiments that are necessary to detect treasure when using MFD.
No other MFD user has put these experiments in the forum.
The MFD techniques that Carl-NC posted, and techniques that MFD users posted show only the methods to use when holding the rods to find treasure.

Will you be listing these experiments that ma330 needs to perform in order to find treasure with an MFD generator?
Or are these experiments a secret?


Best wishes,
J_P

Hi J_P.
There is not any secret, very simple you(and everyone) must learn how to use the Lrods. Lrods needs calm and much stability when you walk. Also you must keep them very light and very horizontal. Wind is not a friend of rods. Every man must spend some hours to experiment with them so to start to have success.

Regards

... i forgot to say that depended of the generator power you must wait between 5 and 30 minutes when you connect the probes to earth until to take the Lrods.

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.
There is not any secret, very simple you(and everyone) must learn how to use the Lrods. Lrods needs calm and much stability when you walk. Also you must keep them very light and very horizontal. Wind is not a friend of rods. Every man must spend some hours to experiment with them so to start to have success.

Regards

... i forgot to say that depended of the generator power you must wait between 5 and 30 minutes when you connect the probes to earth until to take the Lrods.

Hi Geo,
This is excellent news.
We now have some improvements that we can add to the Carl-NC procedure to use MFD.
I think it is finally time to make the updated graphic and procedure that includes your modifications to successfully find treasure when using MFD.

Before I post the updated graphic, maybe you can say what you think is the best amount of power to have coming from the signal generator that you see posted above using the ICL8038.
For me, I think the TDA7294 is not needed, and does not give better results than the power from only the ICL8038.
But maybe you think a small amplifier can help like the STK735 or similar?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Hi J_P.
The power of the generator is important but it is not for the time. You must make a MFD and to try it at different terrains. What you ask for is a flow of current!!!!!. Current more than 10ma is OK, but believe me is not easy. For some reasons the Ohm's law don't work good here

Regards