need mfd

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.
The power of the generator is important but it is not for the time. You must make a MFD and to try it at different terrains. What you ask for is a flow of current!!!!!. Current more than 10ma is OK, but believe me is not easy. For some reasons the Ohm's law don't work good here

Regards

Hi Geo,
Of course ohms law will not work good here.
You are sending power to ground probes that have telluric currents moving in the ground.
We expect we could see some voltage offset between the probes even if there is no generator connected to them.
Of course this external voltage source from the ground can interfere with any ohm's law calculations you make if you are only considering the current that flows from your MFD power source.

But the solution is simple.
If you want to inject a measured amount of current into the ground, then you don't need to make an ohm's law calculation.
You can simply build a current-controlled amplifier.
You can put a control that adjusts how much current to send out, then the amplifier will make whatever gain is necessary to reach the current that you set.
We know the resistance of the ground can change a lot depending on the mineralization and the moisture content.
We but with a current-controlled amplifier, we will not need to make any adjustments for soil.
It will all be done automatically by the amplifier.
We can simply set the control for how many milliamps we want to send out and we will get this exact amount no matter where we plug in the probes.
Of course, we will need to measure both positive and negative phase current to average the power, because the telluric currents can cause a zero cross offset.
The only thing that would stop us from getting the amount of current needed is if the ground resistance is too high.

The remaining question is what is the recommended amount of AC current to send into the ground?
And how much voltage is necessary to deliver this current to the ground?

Best wishes,
J_P

[ma330]

hi
What helps to connect the generator to lroad to find the target ?with mfd?

[J_Player]

hi
What helps to connect the generator to lroad to find the target ?with mfd?

The best way I know to connect the generator to L-rod is to connect with a wire.
You will need one wire for each L-rod.
The method below helps to connect the generator to the L-rod.
Or you can solder the wire directly to the copper handle.

Best wishes,
J_P

[ma330]

The best way I know to connect the generator to L-rod is to connect with a wire.
You will need one wire for each L-rod.
The method below helps to connect the generator to the L-rod.
Or you can solder the wire directly to the copper handle.

Best wishes,
J_P

tank you j-p
How to help connect the generator to find the target? Is it this? And use it simultaneously with the mfd?

[Geo]

Hi Geo,
Of course ohms law will not work good here.
You are sending power to ground probes that have telluric currents moving in the ground.
We expect we could see some voltage offset between the probes even if there is no generator connected to them.
Of course this external voltage source from the ground can interfere with any ohm's law calculations you make if you are only considering the current that flows from your MFD power source.

But the solution is simple.
If you want to inject a measured amount of current into the ground, then you don't need to make an ohm's law calculation.
You can simply build a current-controlled amplifier.
You can put a control that adjusts how much current to send out, then the amplifier will make whatever gain is necessary to reach the current that you set.
We know the resistance of the ground can change a lot depending on the mineralization and the moisture content.
We but with a current-controlled amplifier, we will not need to make any adjustments for soil.
It will all be done automatically by the amplifier.
We can simply set the control for how many milliamps we want to send out and we will get this exact amount no matter where we plug in the probes.
Of course, we will need to measure both positive and negative phase current to average the power, because the telluric currents can cause a zero cross offset.
The only thing that would stop us from getting the amount of current needed is if the ground resistance is too high.

The remaining question is what is the recommended amount of AC current to send into the ground?
And how much voltage is necessary to deliver this current to the ground?

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi J_P.

I used earth resistance meter to check the ground resistance and to calculate the current but no good results.
Anyway i wrote at my previous post that we need current >=10ma. At my devices this was able only with a small power amplifier and a H.V. tranformer at the output. With voltage >80v i had the good results.

Regards

[J_Player]

tank you j-p
How to help connect the generator to find the target? Is it this? And use it simultaneously with the mfd?

Hi ma330,
Most people who use MFD do not connect a signal generator to the rods.
They only connect from signal generator to 2 ground probes.

The rods usually have no electrical connection.
There are only a few MFD generators that use ground probes and also have an electrical connection to the rods.
One of these is the Dell Systems Omnitron that you can see here: http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/page...r800/index.dat

On the Omnitorn, the rods are connected to a more simple circuit than the circuit above.
The Omnitron generator for the rods uses a 555 timer IC with a control knob that adjusts the frequency.
This simple IC does not make a sine wave. It only produces a square wave, and at very low power.
This is a separate generator which is the same as the second generator IC that is connected to the ground probes.
Both can be used simultaneously.
Or only the ground probes can be used for times when you do not want to use the second generator for the rods.

I have never heard of any reports from anyone who says they found treasure when using the Dell Omnitron generator connected to the rods.
My belief is connecting a frequency generator to the rods will not help you to find treasure.
I think that none of the circuits above will help you to find treasure.
But other people say they find treasure, so I show the circuits that they say will work.

Best wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.

I used earth resistance meter to check the ground resistance and to calculate the current but no good results.
Anyway i wrote at my previous post that we need current >=10ma. At my devices this was able only with a small power amplifier and a H.V. tranformer at the output. With voltage >80v i had the good results.

Regards

Hi Geo,

Geologists have measured the resistance of the ground many times with good accuracy.
They use very expensive amplifiers and calibrated meters to find the resistance of many kinds of soil.
Here is the interesting thing:
Geologists found that the ground can have a resistivity that ranges from 100 ohm-cm to 1,000,000,000 ohm-cm.
This means that if they put their ground probes 1 meter apart, they can measure from 0.159 ohms for wet, salty topsoil to 1.59 megohms if there is no moisture content in the soil.
For an amplifier that is to send 10 ma constant current to the ground, we see that it must be able to deliver a voltage that varies between 1.59 mv to 15,900 volts for different soil conditions.
This seems like a very expensive signal generator.

But, let's look at what the geologists use for their power supply... they usually do not send out more than 300-400 volts, and they have a large range of voltage they can adjust their ground resistivity supply for.
When they are set at 400v to measure the highest resistivity soil, they will only send out 2.5 uA.
They have an auto-ranging meter which can switch from milliamps to microamp scale without a problem and give them the correct resistivity readings with very good precision.
Of course, this kind of supply is only for making ground resistivity measurements.
A geologist has no reason to force 10ma through 100cm of 1.5 megohms ground.

But there is a second part of the puzzle:
Geologists also know that the ground can have electrical properties that cause it to act like a capacitor when they are using AC on their ground probes.
When they make their induced polarization surveys, they watch for the phase angle that is caused by the ground.
And they will often sweep through a large range of frequencies to determine the time constant of the ground "capacitor effect".
This is not actually capacitance as we understand from charged plates that are separated by a dialectric.
It is caused by buried particles, or by pores in rocks which can become polarized when they feel the charge from the power the geologist sends into the ground.
These absorb some of the power that is sent, which causes them to become polarized.
Then when they remove the power, the particles slowly lose their polar charge and relax back to a neutral equilibrium.
The polarizing and relaxing process happens over a time constant, depending on the size of the particles or pores in rock structures.
This helps geologists to identify where there may be an ore body or porous rock structures of various pore sizes.
In order to cause this polarization, they use power supplies usually 1000-3000v, sometimes over 10Kv, and usually powered by petrol engine generators that can be several KW.

But for our purposes, we don't care about polarizing pores in rocks, or ore bodies.
We can think of this effect as unpredictable capacitive reactance that can be present in some ground, but not in other ground.
You can see how this would make it difficult to measure how much power your sine wave frequency is putting out.
It cannot be done with ohms law.
We must now consider the phase angle and the power factor.
This effect will be different for every different location of ground.
It all depends on what is below the ground.

If it was a simple DC probe, it would be easy to figure the current, but with AC, I am thinking what is important is how much energy you transfer to the ground.
This would be watts of real power that is corrected for power factor, not simple rms current.

But this is only my guess.
From all the reports I read, most people who report success with MFD say they are using a 5v or a 9v signal generator.
Some are even using a simple 555 with no amplifier... only a capacitor to make an AC couple to the ground probes.
Should we believe their MFD generators are working?
Who knows?

Best Wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Hi J_P.
I know how to measure the earth resistance (it was my job before some years).
I measure it with the attached meter.
Resistance near to my city was between 0.5 and 40 Ohm.
When i say that it is not so easy i mean that with 10V audio signal and with 1_Ohm earth resistance i had not any current flow.

Regards

[ma330]

How can I do for this IC output volume control?Please show in what way?
This IC is suitable for boosting the output frequency of 8038?

[Geo]

At one MFD i used the TDA2030 IC. At the output i connected a 12V/220V transformer.
You can download the datasheet from it...

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.
I know how to measure the earth resistance (it was my job before some years).
I measure it with the attached meter.
Resistance near to my city was between 0.5 and 40 Ohm.
When i say that it is not so easy i mean that with 10V audio signal and with 1_Ohm earth resistance i had not any current flow.

Regards

Hi Geo,
This seems very strange.
The resistance you measure will depend on where you place the ground probes, the depth of your ground probes, and on the distance they are separated.
Geologists have never had a problem to measure the ground resistance when they test using an audio frequency signal.
They know that when they put a voltage to the ground to measure resistance, the current that flows depends on electrolytes in the soil.
So they avoid electrolytic reactions by using AC so they will not have problems with getting an accurate measurement.
But they also put a higher voltage than 10v into the ground when they measure the resistivity, and they spread their ground probes a larger distance than is usually used by MFD experimenters.
They send enough voltage to overcome any telluric currents so they will be insignificant in their measurements.
Then they measure the voltage that is flowing through the ground between the ground probes to determine what the resistivity of the ground is.
They do not connect an inexpensive digital ohm meter to a pair of test probes to measure ground resistivity.
When they make AC measurements, their signal processor can cancel any telluric current offset between the probes if it rises to a significant level. Their resistivity test equipment will also cancel any error readings that come from power lines or stray ground currents up to 100db to filter them out.
See below for the equipment that the geologists in the USA use.

Maybe you have a problem with your amplifier circuit.
Or maybe your meter is not making accurate measurements for the current.
If the problem is not from the amplifier or the meter, or from the electrical properties I talked about above, then there is only one remaining explanation....

Maybe a Jinn lives near your city.
I have read the reports how Jinns will cause equipment malfunctions for treasure hunters.
I even read reports where PI metal detectors failed to work when Jinns were near.
Maybe this is the reason why your amplifier cannot send any current through a 1 ohm load.


Best wishes,
J_P

See equipment that geologist uses to measure ground resistivity below

[Geo]

Hi Geo,
If the problem is not from the amplifier or the meter, or from the electrical properties I talked about above, then there is only one remaining explanation....

Maybe a Jinn lives near your city.
I have read the reports how Jinns will cause equipment malfunctions for treasure hunters.
I even read reports where PI metal detectors failed to work when Jinns were near.
Maybe this is the reason why your amplifier cannot send any current through a 1 ohm load.


Best wishes,
J_P

See equipment that geologist uses to measure ground resistivity below

Hi J_P.

There is no reason to continue this discussion. You Have a tendency to mocks the others. But we did not see any construction from you. Only theory and theory.

Regards

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.

There is no reason to continue this discussion. You Have a tendency to mocks the others. But we did not see any construction from you. Only theory and theory.

Regards

Hi Geo,
You have it wrong.
This is not a theory.
I have worked with several geologists in California.
I watched their crews using the exact test equipment that you see above and other models similar.
I can tell you I did not see them use a 10v multimeter to measure the earth resistivity.
They know they cannot get an accurate measurement unless they use more sophisticated instruments with the methods I explained.
This is not a theoretical idea for how to measure ground resistivity. It is what I saw during every resistivity survey.

None of the instructions I posted for MFD methods are theory either.
These are the exact instructions that were given by manufacturers and users of MFD equipment who say they are finding treasures.
You can also see that Carl-NC posted the same instructions that he got from real MFD users and manufacturers.

What you have been telling us is that ohm's law does not work for your equipment.
I explained a lot of ways above how you could have false readings, but you do not want to believe.
You can check with any geologist to see why they do not use a simple multimeter to measure the resistivity of the ground.
These are not theories.
These are actual field practice methods that geologists use, who have many years of experience working with soil that has different salt content, different kinds of electrolytes, and different moisture content.

The only thing that is maybe theory is to try to guess why your amplifier does not send current to the ground.
The only theory I can think is that there is a problem with the amplifier, or the ground has a higher resistivity than what your meter measured, and does not allow a measurable current to pass.
If there is not a problem with the equipment or the methods of measuring, then it must be caused by outside forces.
If you don't believe this can happen, send a PM to michael.
He did not believe it could happen either, until he saw how it happens.
He will be happy to tell you all about it.
I do not believe michael will give you any false information.


Best wishes,
J_P

[ma330]

At one MFD i used the TDA2030 IC. At the output i connected a 12V/220V transformer.
You can download the datasheet from it...

hi geo
The transformer at the output frequency will cause instability.Strongly.Oscillating about 1 kHz to more
To solve this problem, what solution do you recommend?

[Fred]

Hi J_P.

There is no reason to continue this discussion. You Have a tendency to mocks the others. But we did not see any construction from you. Only theory and theory.

Regards

Hi Geo,
Irony can be healthy sometimes.