Ivconic's Negative Ion Detector circuit

[Carl-NC]

Final note: You can create a coin with a halo by taking a copper coin and burying it in a container of soil to which you add just enough ocean water to keep it damp. Put a cover on the container and let it sit for a few weeks. I have an up-comming "mayonnaise jar test" for coin halos which will begin in a few weeks, involving lots of mayonnaise jars and coins. I exect it will take several months for any halo to develop, if it does at all. If you have any test suggestions, let me know in the next few weeks.

I suggest filling 3 jars with wet beach sand straight from the surf. Near the top of one jar, place a zinc penny that has several deep surface scratches to expose the zinc. Near the surface of a second jar, place a copper penny. Leave the 3rd jar with no coin. Turn them upside down so the pennys are now at the bottom. Let them sit for a month or two. When it's time to test, place a fresh penny in the 3rd jar to compare with.

- Carl

[Carl-NC]

But I am open to the idea that the "halo effect" is a myth if I can see some credible demonstration that it is in fact a myth. I am also open to the idea that the "halo effect" exists if I can see a demonstration to show that it does.

This has been discussed before, I think on Eric Foster's PI forum. As I recall, it's been demonstrated that iron can corrode and create a larger effective target, but copper and silver do not. However, wet salt sand can increase detection depths for all metals, possibly through it's conduction of eddy currents which boost the target's own eddy response. This is a guess.

I agree though, it's time for some definitive experiments....

- Carl

[Jim]

Hi Jim,

What you posted didn't really help. You stated that "Gold is inert, silver is dang near inert", with no evidence or testing to support your statement.

JP,



If you are not aware that gold is inert, I will stand-down from trying to hold an educated discussion.



Good day, Jim

[ivconic]

Short


Hi to all good people !
Just short note.
Day before yesterday,yestarday and today i visited some locations and found a
handfull of lead bullets from 1780.-1815., a few arrows and one part of gun.
About lead bullets....they are really "extended" targets in the ground.I was easilly founded them in 20-25cm depth.On the fresh air depth of detection decreases to 10-15 cm...
Whay is that so....? I can not explain yet..
Regards!

[goldfinder]

J_Player ion circuit comment

I was reviewing the various posts on this thread and several of the posts by Esteban and others have claimed that they have found long buried gold with an ion type detector. IVCONIC's circuit most closely resembles the one that Esteban provided. These had chargers of the antenna with a negative or positive charge and the charging circuit used an oscillator. Esteban in a later reply said in essence that the oscillatory charger was necessary to discharge the antenna from excessive charge.

J_Player proved a simple circuit that did not provide this oscillatory antenna charger nor was there a mode in the circuit to change the polarity of the antenna charge.

If anyone is going to test these theories I suggest we at least follow Esteban's suggestions since he claims an operational capability with the oscillatory charger version which he appears to be using. At least then we will have a test base to compare similar circuits.

Goldfinder

[J_Player]

There seems to be some question whether the oscillatory ripple on Ivconic's detector is able to help detect ions. According to Ivconic,

"I doubt it is ionic field at all. Besides, i tried my ion detector on gold and silver and ... nothing! I have test field with burried items(for testing detecting equipment).Some of those items are burried for longer than a few years there, so i guess it has to "evolute" some "field" by that time. And truth is that there is a better detection on "older" items in the ground, but,thanks to "what"...i do not know."

In other words, Ivconic, using his oscillatory charging circuit found "nothing" when looking for ion fields near gold and silver. After ruling out ions, he concludes that he doesn't know what causes buried items to give a stronger signal with detector equipment. It is for this reason I dispensed with the extra circuitry in a simplified diagram. However, If the AC component is crucial in detecting the elusive "ion fields", then it would be good to get some information about what frequency and voltage oscillator is necessary for charging the detector. A schematic of the Mineoro devices in question would be helpful.

My opinion is similar to Ivconic's. I doubt there exist any measurable "ion fields" in the air near buried gold targets. My feeling is that the kind of signals that will be eventually discovered are probably electromagnetic dynamic fields, generally recognized as radio waves. I wouldn't be surprised if they were in the very low frequency range.

[FrancoItaly]

J Player you are right,ULF and especially one Schumann frequency, 7.83 z, it's in the range of alpha frequency and this it would be a connection between dowser and long range detection. I have almost finished my ULF receiver with a E_Field antenna and VCF tuning...

[goldfinder]

Static vs Oscillatory field on outside of antenna

Great answer J_Player - I was just trying to use the info from Esteban as he is obviously a confirmed Mineoro user and seems to have made some ion detectors himself. I can "feel" a field around gold but I am wired differently than most due to several near death experiences when young and NDE's definitely have lifelong effects.

From my own research it doesn't look like there are EM or ES or ionic fields around buried gold, but there is something there.

I am building a version of your circuit with a seperate antenna charger so I can experiment with the variables.

Has anyone looked at the gold artifacts claimed to have been found w/ the Mineoro? I did and it is quite impressive. So is it a hyped con (BS!) or the real thing?
Goldfinder

[J_Player]

Hi goldfinder,
I consider all the gold shown on manufacturers sites to be hype. They are in the business to sell equipment, and they know that posting photos of treasures can cause a lot of otherwise intelligent people to disengage the thought process and let the "gold fever" process take over. Many detector sales organizations use this form of advertizing, whether for LRL or conventional detectors. Maybe some of the treasures were found with the products being advertized, maybe not -- I don't really care. As far as I'm concerned, these photos are just advertizing gimmicks. I have never seen a credible demonstration of how well a detector works from any magazine or manufacturer website. The only believable demonstrations I have seen are those from individuals who use detectors. For example, look at this forum, where detectorists post their finds daily: http://www.findmall.com/

Pick any forum of your choice for more than 20 types of detectors and see average detector users showing daily photos of what they found with their detectors. Funny thing, I don't see any photos of daily finds with Mineoro or other LRL detectors here. Maybe there are other sites that show large amounts of daily discoveries with LRLs similar to what we see here, but I guess I just haven't found them.

Another interesting story along these lines -- I recently posted asking what is the best detector for California beach use. I got exceent response from top detectorists telling me the types of detectors that are expected to work best based on well-known principles of metal detecting. I also got a lot of responsess from local California folks telling me what works best for them in the field. I got NO response from any LRL users.

One of the local beach hunters invited me to go hunting with him for a day, using one of his $1200 detectors, whereby I found the 2 corroded coins that you see in the photo above. But any attempt to ask for a demonstration of a LRL is invariably answered with some excuse for why a demonstration cannot be done. Would you spend money for a machine that the seller refuses to demonstrate finding treasure in the field for you?

[hung]

Has anyone looked at the gold artifacts claimed to have been found w/ the Mineoro? I did and it is quite impressive. So is it a hyped con (BS!) or the real thing?
Goldfinder

You can bet they're real.
I've seen some of their findings when I was at the factory. Lots of gold and silver objects.

Sorry to say that but americans are notorious for advertising gimmicks as you say... We brazilians are not. I know Damasio and the people at Mineoro. The last thing they would do is an advertising gimmick.

[J_Player]

Nobody questions whether real gold objects exist at a factory or in photos at a website. The question is whether a LRL is able to find treasures for someone who buys the detector. If so, then let's see a demonstration of a LRL find gold in front of us to watch like other metal detectors do.

So far all we ever heard is a lot of talk about how much treasure the Mineoro machines can find -- NO demonstration of the machine being used to find gold. I am buying detecting equipment right now for the summer season. Anybody wants to show me a Mineoro detector find some of the gold near where I live in Southern California, then I will put Mineoro on the list of hot treasure machines. So far I have had NO replies to any of my previous offers.

If there is nobody in the entire world who is willing to put on a live demonstration of the Mineoro LRLs finding gold, then there is no way in the world I will waste my money on this scam. A collection of artifacts in the Mineoro factory does not prove anything to me about what these machines can do. It only proves that treasures were put on display in a factory. Bring the machine to my beach and the gold mines where I live and show me how it finds gold. I got the cash ready for purchasing equipment, but I am not so stupid to be suckered into a scam for a machine that nobody on earth will give a live demonstration of because they know it doesn't work.

The money talks, the BS walks.

[hung]

JPlayer,

I understand your concern. In fact, I would be doing and asking the same thing if I were you. We all know how american people praise money to the point of creating the 'time is money' sentence...

If you go to the Mineoro's site and open the list of findings with the names of the detectorists, you can email them and adress your questions to the users themselves.
Funny thing is that I did exactly that when I was about to buy the PDC 210 that I own. The only people I got no reply at all was from the americans listed there.
Would it be because they don't want to 'raise their heads in public'?
Americans have a different culture and different attitude sometimes...
Besides, I have never seen anyone of them discussing Mineoro detectors in forums.
My guess, honestly, is that people who own those detectors are too busy in the field and wish to remain anonimous.

I for myself took a 3 week break from the site I want to recover, because I am an audio engineer and record producer and am finishing a CD right now. Also I am waiting to put my hands on the FG 78 this week luckily to get back there.

My other advice for you would be: Go direct to the source and schedule a trip to Brazil and to Mineoro factory to watch a demonstration. It's a beautiful place by the sea with lots of good food...
Damasio told me he has plans soon to fly to US to do this personally. But as he suffers from diabethes I am not sure he will make it tough.

Third advice would be to wait my own report.
Regards.

[J_Player]

"Would it be because they don't want to 'raise their heads in public'?"
"Besides, I have never seen anyone of them discussing Mineoro detectors in forums."

I found some Americans talking about the Miuneoro LRL detectors in other forums. Here is what they said:

"I really hope your not seriose"
"LOL"
"Is Dale Gribble Feeding you info on LBJ or LRL's OR Whatever. ROFL"
"Quick Call Carl. He may be able to Deprogram you. LOL"
"They are the REAL con artists"
"lmao"
"i know you can't put a price on the C.O.N.......as it is truly PRICELESS !!"
"I say it's horse pucky... "
"What a bunch of CRAP :!: :!: :!:"
"BS"
"Until we seen it works in person we'll keep our wallets closed... :wink:"
"Total BS, absoultly nothing here is true :!: :!:"
"If it worked that good everyone would have one, Bull ****!"
"That kind of science makes me sick to my stomache... then theres that saw about fools and money.... "
"It cannot detect gold, at all. In fact, it appears to be intentional fraud
"Thanks for your well known efforts in exposing these bogus devices for the criminal hoaxes that they are."
"geared to mislead people who are easily mislead."
"NOT ANOTHER ONE......... :evil:"
" had a PDC-205 on loan last year. It is a piece of crap, an intentional money-making scam"
"..these over priced things do not working as advertised.."
"I'm trying very hard to learn, and understand the reasons why the Minero, is not living up to it's advertising claims..."

Read the actual forum posts at these links (you will find some of the funniest photos you have ever seen at this first link): http://www.treasurenet.com/f/index.p...278a29ec7f2792
http://www.arizonagoldprospectors.co...=68&hl=mineoro

Maybe the Americans do not have the same culture as in Brazil. Maybe the reason they don't answer you is because they are too kind, and they don't want to spoil your good feeling for Mineoro.

Of course, I am still not convinced the Mineoro can't work. Show me some photos of the treasure you find with the FG 78 after you return. Please post them so we can see. Take some pictures of the area where you hunt in Brazil too, and some pictures of the landscape that shows you recovering the treasure from the ground. I look forward to the time when I can to return to Brazil. It is truly a beautiful country. But I don't think I will be going soon.

Regards

[hung]

When I said detectorists talking about the Mineoro detectors, I meant the ones WHO ARE LISTED IN MINEORO'S SITE WITH THEIR FINDINGS. Those, I've never seen in any forum. As they did find gold as you can see/read, why would they be willing to talk about it in forums?
If you were one of those guys I bet you would remain shut and 'disappear' as soon as possible, despite your statement you would do the opposite.
The link you posted shows about a bunch of people who don't own and ain't got the slightest idea about the technical background regarding the Mineoros. And the few left who got the PDC 205 apparently don't know how to use it. I'm sorry.

Remember, those early models only worked with well more than 50% of ionic field intensity and even so, many treasure were found. I already told the story of my friend Celi who with a 205 found 32 1816 gold coins. His picture is on the site.

When you are used to the detector, KNOWS how to use it and start to perceive some let's say 'tips' from it, you enhance dramatically your potential. You can have two people with a PDC 210 on the beach. One being a seasoned 210 user and the other a novice. You can bet the seasoned one will find more gold and faster than the novice detectorist. Also he wil be able to find targets where the novice will miss. This relates to how to set the controls accordingly.

In fact this is an interesting world. There's no single thing, fact , etc. that's common sense. Not one single!
Have you ever noticed that? Taking this discussion to the standard metal detectors which is apparently a proved technology, when you go to forums you even can see people bashing each other and never agree which detector brand seems to be the better and even coment this particular brand don't work!

There are people even today who don't believe men got to the moon. It was a hoax!

[mineorogreece]

Hello Hung from Greece

Hi Hung
I am mineorogreece ,a mineoro dealer for Greece.I would like to ask you a few things if you allow me.Can you please send me your email?
My email is: liantis@mineorogreece.gr
Thanks a lot
Jim