MY new PIC uC ION Detector

[goldfinder]

ION bursts

Hi goldfinder,
Could you please explain the advantages of discrimination between ions and electrostatic fields when it comes to treasure detecting?

Yes, ions are charged particles which some of the LRL folks claim are coming off the buried treasures. When the ions combine in the atmosphere or on the antenna then there is a little burst of energy that the jfet transistor amplifies. I ran some tests and found that these ions bursts/re-combining have a narrow bandwidth (which I don't remember - you can test this using an oscope which is how I found it). The PIC program looks for these micro bursts.

In an electrostatic detection all that is getting detected is a voltage gradient and you don't know if it is simply an efield or an ion burst or whatever. I found that there were all kinds of different electrostatic fields in nature. For example - Lots of bushes and trees have a big electrostatic charge. So that was when I invented the PIC program to detection of ions. I used a PIC 12F675 it has a few A2D channels ideal for this sort of thing, and of course there are timers you can also use to time the ion bursts.

The PIC basically times the pulse created in the circuit and if it within the ion burst time window then it triggers pulses in the ear phones.

I don't know how to make this any clearer but if you don't understand I'll try and explain.
Goldfinder

[Qiaozhi]

Yes, ions are charged particles which some of the LRL folks claim are coming off the buried treasures. When the ions combine in the atmosphere or on the antenna then there is a little burst of energy that the jfet transistor amplifies. I ran some tests and found that these ions bursts/re-combining have a narrow bandwidth (which I don't remember - you can test this using an oscope which is how I found it). The PIC program looks for these micro bursts.

In an electrostatic detection all that is getting detected is a voltage gradient and you don't know if it is simply an efield or an ion burst or whatever. I found that there were all kinds of different electrostatic fields in nature. For example - Lots of bushes and trees have a big electrostatic charge. So that was when I invented the PIC program to detection of ions. I used a PIC 12F675 it has a few A2D channels ideal for this sort of thing, and of course there are timers you can also use to time the ion bursts.

The PIC basically times the pulse created in the circuit and if it within the ion burst time window then it triggers pulses in the ear phones.

I don't know how to make this any clearer but if you don't understand I'll try and explain.
Goldfinder

Interesting idea ... but I doubt the short pulses have any correlation with long-time buried gold.

[g-sani]

Yes, ions are charged particles which some of the LRL folks claim are coming off the buried treasures. When the ions combine in the atmosphere or on the antenna then there is a little burst of energy that the jfet transistor amplifies. I ran some tests and found that these ions bursts/re-combining have a narrow bandwidth (which I don't remember - you can test this using an oscope which is how I found it). The PIC program looks for these micro bursts.

In an electrostatic detection all that is getting detected is a voltage gradient and you don't know if it is simply an efield or an ion burst or whatever. I found that there were all kinds of different electrostatic fields in nature. For example - Lots of bushes and trees have a big electrostatic charge. So that was when I invented the PIC program to detection of ions. I used a PIC 12F675 it has a few A2D channels ideal for this sort of thing, and of course there are timers you can also use to time the ion bursts.

The PIC basically times the pulse created in the circuit and if it within the ion burst time window then it triggers pulses in the ear phones.

I don't know how to make this any clearer but if you don't understand I'll try and explain.
Goldfinder

Very very well explained goldfinder and as Qiaozhi said interesting idea.
Thank you very much.

[goldfinder]

It was an experiment

Being a retired geezer and interested in lots of far out ideas I built the ion detector since there was all the hoopla about ions being output from long time buried gold. I take the detector with me when I go out treasure hunting or nugget shooting as well as my PI machine, my Tesoro Tejon, and etc. So far nothing. Theoretically, based on orthodox physics, I don't see there will ever be ion detection, but if I get a signal w/ one of the metal detectors I'll flip on the ion detector before digging. That way I can prove to myself if there is anything to it. Orthodox science doesn't have all the answers, in fact, I think we've barely scratched the surface of how this marvelous universe functions. And likely, lots of things we think we know now will turn out wrong in the future.
Goldfinder

[J_Player]

Being a retired geezer and interested in lots of far out ideas I built the ion detector since there was all the hoopla about ions being output from long time buried gold. I take the detector with me when I go out treasure hunting or nugget shooting as well as my PI machine, my Tesoro Tejon, and etc. So far nothing. Theoretically, based on orthodox physics, I don't see there will ever be ion detection, but if I get a signal w/ one of the metal detectors I'll flip on the ion detector before digging. That way I can prove to myself if there is anything to it. Orthodox science doesn't have all the answers, in fact, I think we've barely scratched the surface of how this marvelous universe functions. And likely, lots of things we think we know now will turn out wrong in the future.
Goldfinder

Hi Goldfinder,
you are located in an area that has some very long time buried gold nuggets.
Have you found any evidence from your ion detector that there is any ionic activity anomaly in the areas where you found buried gold nuggets so far?
Or where you found other long-time buried metals?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

Being a retired geezer and interested in lots of far out ideas I built the ion detector since there was all the hoopla about ions being output from long time buried gold. I take the detector with me when I go out treasure hunting or nugget shooting as well as my PI machine, my Tesoro Tejon, and etc. So far nothing. Theoretically, based on orthodox physics, I don't see there will ever be ion detection, but if I get a signal w/ one of the metal detectors I'll flip on the ion detector before digging. That way I can prove to myself if there is anything to it. Orthodox science doesn't have all the answers, in fact, I think we've barely scratched the surface of how this marvelous universe functions. And likely, lots of things we think we know now will turn out wrong in the future.
Goldfinder

I'm surprised the LRL proponents have not replied to your post to show you the error of your ways.

According to LRL pseudo-science, a conventional metal detector destroys the "phenomenon" surrounding longtime buried gold. So it's no wonder you cannot detect anything with your ion detector. The correct method is to isolate a [fairly large] area with your LRL, and then search it with a [real] metal detector. When you find something (any metal object will do) you extol the virtues of the LRL, and conveniently forget that the Tesoro, etc., were ever involved. And ... voila! ... you have a new LRL believer.

[WM6]

According to LRL pseudo-science, a conventional metal detector destroys the "phenomenon" surrounding longtime buried gold.

Not only metal detector destroy such phenomena, but negative sense of detectorist (LRL-ist) destroy it too. Proven by mr. Hung and MST (mineoro scientific team) institute as well by RST (rangertell scientific team) institute (and others).

[WM6]

Ionisation characteristic of Gold

Ionisation characteristic of Gold

[goldfinder]

NO - NYET - NAH

Hi Goldfinder,
you are located in an area that has some very long time buried gold nuggets.
Have you found any evidence from your ion detector that there is any ionic activity anomaly in the areas where you found buried gold nuggets so far?
Or where you found other long-time buried metals?

Best wishes,
J_P

JP
Always appreciate you best wishes. Just wish they would manifest some Au nugs.

So far no ionizations. Pretty much given it up. Still use the Tesoro though.
Goldfinder

[J_Player]

Yes, ions are charged particles which some of the LRL folks claim are coming off the buried treasures. When the ions combine in the atmosphere or on the antenna then there is a little burst of energy that the jfet transistor amplifies. I ran some tests and found that these ions bursts/re-combining have a narrow bandwidth (which I don't remember - you can test this using an oscope which is how I found it). The PIC program looks for these micro bursts.

In an electrostatic detection all that is getting detected is a voltage gradient and you don't know if it is simply an efield or an ion burst or whatever. I found that there were all kinds of different electrostatic fields in nature. For example - Lots of bushes and trees have a big electrostatic charge. So that was when I invented the PIC program to detection of ions. I used a PIC 12F675 it has a few A2D channels ideal for this sort of thing, and of course there are timers you can also use to time the ion bursts.

The PIC basically times the pulse created in the circuit and if it within the ion burst time window then it triggers pulses in the ear phones.

I don't know how to make this any clearer but if you don't understand I'll try and explain.
Goldfinder[

... I tested it with my air ion charger and a ozone generator and the ion detector immediately responds up to 10 feet away.

... So far no ionizations. Pretty much given it up. Still use the Tesoro though.

Hi Goldfinder,

Your circuit is very interesting.
It represents the first understandable improvement over the simple static detectors I have seen in this forum.
I have seen other signal processing circuits intended to detect ionic activity by extracting signals from narrow time intervals.
These circuits involved more complicated discrete digital circuitry to filter and process short interval signals, but they were never published here.

I suspected you would not have detected any signs of ionisation from long time buried gold with your ion detector, as you confirmed.
I am wondering how you determined the ion burst time interval to program your PIC to.
From what you posted, I am guessing you may have calibrated it to an air ion generator which produces ozone, or possibly some other source of ions?

Second, I am wondering how you originally discovered that ions will create bursts of pulses within a given time interval.
Is this something you discovered on your own, or is there a printed source you learned this from?

Best wishes,
J_P

[goldfinder]

How ion measurement timing was made

Hi Goldfinder,

Your circuit is very interesting.
It represents the first understandable improvement over the simple static detectors I have seen in this forum.
I have seen other signal processing circuits intended to detect ionic activity by extracting signals from narrow time intervals.
These circuits involved more complicated discrete digital circuitry to filter and process short interval signals, but they were never published here.

I suspected you would not have detected any signs of ionisation from long time buried gold with your ion detector, as you confirmed.
I am wondering how you determined the ion burst time interval to program your PIC to.
From what you posted, I am guessing you may have calibrated it to an air ion generator which produces ozone, or possibly some other source of ions?

Second, I am wondering how you originally discovered that ions will create bursts of pulses within a given time interval.
Is this something you discovered on your own, or is there a printed source you learned this from?

Best wishes,
J_P

JP,
Very good questions! I answer both as a combination.

I made the simple electrostatic detector using a jfet which is in many places on the internet. I also made the zahori circuit. I noticed with both that there was some kind of pulse so I hooked up the circuit to my oscope and could see the pulses. Walking on the carpet, running a high voltage spark generator, combing my hair (when I still had it longer), rubbing a glass rod on a cloth, etc., and for the most part the oscope pulses were within a fairly narrow range. Higher voltages seemed to be longer probably because there was more energy to dissipate so as I remember I discounted these as not as likely in nature. It seemed logical to me that when an ion decayed or combined with an opposite charge it would release a pulse of electromagnetic energy. And the oscope seemed to confirm.

Then I designed a PIC program that would interface with the zahori circuit. When the PIC got an electrostatic indication from the ES circuitry, it timed the length of the pulse (PICs have some good timers) and if the pulse was within the timing window the PIC output a pulse. Basically, the PIC needs to keep reading the A2D port of the PIC and test for voltage ups to detect the pulse start and test for voltage downs to get the end of the pulse and measure time the between pulse up and pulse down.

Timing is only as accurate as the PIC clock cycle time. Faster PIC clock like a crystal oscillator at 20 Mhz vs the internal PIC clock at 4 Mhz gets you to more accuracy. However, crystal oscillators also cost the circuit in battery power. I chose the 4 Mhz internal as it was accurate enough for the ion pulse width window.

You can also create your own timing by counting the clock cycles taken by the PIC to do something.

I did field tests and found some interesting things. One very interesting effect was that walking on rocks or sand created ionic activity that the detector would detect quite readily. So if you are walking and try to detect ions you are always going to detect ions. Another was that lots of trees and shrubs had big charges and rubbing against them cause ionic sparking.

Interesting learning experience as a minimum!
Goldfinder

[g-sani]

Hi goldfinder
There are two things at your last post that I don't understand completely.
1. You say that:
...One very interesting effect was that walking on rocks or sand created ionic activity that the detector would detect quite readily. So if you are walking and try to detect ions you are always going to detect ions...
Well do you mean by this that you detect unwanted ions created by walking which actually is faulse indications?
I am asking this because Esteban says that whith such LRLs is best when you also walk instead of only moving your hand left-right. As I understand this produces some tiny ac voltages required in order for the phenomenon to be detected.
I hope I have been understandable.
2. And the second thing I don't understand is your last sentence where you say:
....Interesting learning experience as a minimum! ...
What exactly do you mean when you say as a minimum?

Apart from all this I believe that your idea would be best applied for TH whith Morgans antenna(mini zaxori) on it instead of the telescopic one that you used.
Is this difficult for somebody to adapt in your PIC uc ion detector?
Please let me know if you think different.
Regards
g-sani

[J_Player]

JP,
Very good questions! I answer both as a combination.

I made the simple electrostatic detector using a jfet which is in many places on the internet. I also made the zahori circuit. I noticed with both that there was some kind of pulse so I hooked up the circuit to my oscope and could see the pulses. Walking on the carpet, running a high voltage spark generator, combing my hair (when I still had it longer), rubbing a glass rod on a cloth, etc., and for the most part the oscope pulses were within a fairly narrow range. Higher voltages seemed to be longer probably because there was more energy to dissipate so as I remember I discounted these as not as likely in nature. It seemed logical to me that when an ion decayed or combined with an opposite charge it would release a pulse of electromagnetic energy. And the oscope seemed to confirm.

Then I designed a PIC program that would interface with the zahori circuit. When the PIC got an electrostatic indication from the ES circuitry, it timed the length of the pulse (PICs have some good timers) and if the pulse was within the timing window the PIC output a pulse. Basically, the PIC needs to keep reading the A2D port of the PIC and test for voltage ups to detect the pulse start and test for voltage downs to get the end of the pulse and measure time the between pulse up and pulse down.

Timing is only as accurate as the PIC clock cycle time. Faster PIC clock like a crystal oscillator at 20 Mhz vs the internal PIC clock at 4 Mhz gets you to more accuracy. However, crystal oscillators also cost the circuit in battery power. I chose the 4 Mhz internal as it was accurate enough for the ion pulse width window.

You can also create your own timing by counting the clock cycles taken by the PIC to do something.

I did field tests and found some interesting things. One very interesting effect was that walking on rocks or sand created ionic activity that the detector would detect quite readily. So if you are walking and try to detect ions you are always going to detect ions. Another was that lots of trees and shrubs had big charges and rubbing against them cause ionic sparking.

Interesting learning experience as a minimum!
Goldfinder

Hi Goldfinder,
After hearing how you discovered the time interval to set your PIC filter to, I am beginning to wonder if this is the same kind of signal that is believed to come from long time buried gold.
Let's start with the method you used to generate the pulses:

You began with a static detector that could pick up electrostatic fields from a Jfet with very high amplification. And you noticed some narrow bandwidth pulses occasionally coming naturally, which could also be induced by creating static charges near the detector. Using classical electronic theory, we would recognise these pulses as very small static discharges, which may cause a change in the static voltage to drop maybe between a few hundred volts to a few thousand volts. I would think these are micro-sparks similar to the sparks you may notice snapping from your finger when you touch a door knob on a dry day after walking across a carpet. These pulses may be generated as a result of sparks or discharges that are not large enough to be seen or heard as a distinct spark like you can feel snapping at your skin. But if we were to go to a microscopic scale and observe these tiny sparks, we would see them as a miniature lightning storm with several arcs repeating in approximately the same air space where the first arc strikes, due to the more conductive air which has ionised during the spark. If I am correct, then each micro-spark will produce millions of ionised air molecules which I would think take at least several seconds to neutralise or dissipate in the non-ionised air. And the pulse would represent the detection of rapid change in the e field in front of the detector that is seen as dropping probably a few hundred volts in several closely spaced steps as each successive micro-spark happens in a cluster of sparks. When an equilibrium has been reached, the micro-sparks will stop until the static charge builds up again to start another cluster of micro-sparks. If I am correct that the narrow pulse is caused by a tiny cluster of sparks, then there is some ionisation of the air in the area of the spark, which I presume neutralises shortly after the spark is finished. The point is I am thinking you built a spark detector. It detects ions of air that were ionised during a static discharge, but the prime event your filter is detecting is the occurrence of a static discharge spark.

If I am correct that you have built a static discharge pulse detector, then how does this relate to treasure hunting?
Do ions from buried metal cause pulses similar to the pulses your detector captures?

According to Mineoro theory, gold ions are supposed to be floating in a cloud that reaches from the ground to about 7.2 feet above the ground where treasure has been buried a long time. They claimed this cloud of gold ions is discharging, one gold atom at a time which produce pulses of femto and atto second duration. They further claimed these short duration pulses are sensed on their "sensitive electronics" (BC548 transistor).
But a BC548 is a cheap general purpose transistor that cannot detect atto or femto second pulse widths - not from a single atom that loses an electron at some long range distance from the BC548 transistor. In fact a BC548 transistor cannot detect a femto or atto second pulse if you were able to inject it into the circuit that feeds the base of the transistor.
In order to detect a pulse, the pulse must be of greater strength than is generated from a single atom gaining or losing an electron. A spark that causes millions of gas ions to ionise and results in a large measurable change in static voltage could be detectable, but not a single atom or a few hundred atoms changing their charge state by one electron.
Anyone who has seen what components are inside the Mineoro locators knows they are not capable of detecting these short duration pulses. In fact these pulses are not detected by any LRL circuitry whether Mineoro or another brand, or home made. The reason is because circuitry to detect pulses of this duration exist only in scientific research facilities, as the cost for the apparatus to detect these pulses is beyond the reach of the average hobbyist or treasure hunter.

But it would be pointless to even try to detect femto or atto second pulses from gold ions in the air, because it has been proven there are no gold ions hovering in a cloud over a buried gold treasure. And if it were possible, these ions could quickly blow away in the slightest wind, giving false treasure locations to any ion cloud detector. Also, if a metal ion cloud was able to hover in one location in the air, it would need to make a sizable spark, as happens during a static discharge to be detectable as a pulse. Single gold atoms changing their charge at random are not detectable from a remote pulse detector.

So, if the Mineoro concept of gold ions is not correct, what do we know about gold ions that could be detectable?
According to real scientists and companies that actually locate long-time buried gold and other minerals, gold ions will slowly form around buried gold as a result of bacteria that produce cyanide to corrode the gold surface. The aurocyanide or dicyanoaurate complex slowly migrates upward toward the surface over many years, where it has time to combine with sulphur complexes and organic acids in the soil. During this transit time there are many exchanges of electrons as the actual gold atom becomes dissociated with the complex and attaches to a different complex. Also, during this dissolution of gold, there is considerable other chemical activity, such as the formation of sodium hydroxide, for example, and the disappearance of some of the ground moisture. When the gold ions finally neutralise at the last 10-30 cm before reaching the surface of the ground they usually become attached to another gold atom in a lattice that makes up a micro gold particle, or perhaps becomes attached to a larger gold nugget or other gold object. But it has been confirmed the gold ions do not reach the surface or become airborne. The only airborne gold was found to be neutral gold particles which inhabit the air in about the same concentration as tiny gold particles in the ocean. Keep in mind, the ionic activity is happening below the ground in very weak concentrations (parts per trillion of soil material) which is barely detectable when soil samples are dug and sent to a laboratory that is equipped to titrate this weak of a solution. The good news is this weak solution of ions contains millions of gold ions which will develop into a tall column at least the diameter of the treasure and will continue upward until they neutralise within the last 10-30 cm of reaching the surface.

So what do we know about buried gold ions that has been confirmed by researchers who actually measure them?
A column of dissolved gold will form in the ground above a buried gold item if you wait long enough for the forces of nature to cause it to happen.
The gold ions will not reach the surface or become airborne.
This means you need to wait enough time for cyanide excreting bacteria to dissolve some of the gold surface.
And you need to wait enough time for successive rain cycles to draw these dissolved gold ions and complexes up toward the surface through capillary action.
-- (Usually over 50 years, but depends on the soil and climate).
I suppose gold nuggets are some of the best candidates to form ionic activity -- they have been there for millions of years.

Finally, what is detectable from these gold ions?
Keep in mind, these ions are only located more than 10 cm beneath the surface of the earth, except in cases where the gold is buried shallower than the 10-30 cm.
We could expect in the case of shallow buried gold that cyanide excreting bacteria could produce some gold ions at the surface of the gold.
But the shallow gold ions would soon become neutralised when the complex they are attached to becomes a stable compound.

We could look for some kind of electronic signal that develops as a result of gold ions forming or neutralising.
But what kind of signal?

A signal from the gold ions forming and collapsing?
A signal from the cyanide complex reverting back to sodium cyanide?
A signal from the sodium hydroxide dissipating and allowing water molecules to form?
Gold ions forming and collapsing cannot be detected as a pulse because they form and collapse at random times which average out to be an electronic non-event, unlike a spark that is a detectable event.
The same holds true for all the other chemical reactions related to the gold solution, and hundreds of other chemical reactions in the soil that are not related to gold.

So what ionic activity can we detect from buried gold?
Is it possible to create an artificial electronic disturbance to the ongoing gold ion process that will result in a measurable signal to a remote detector?

Best wishes,
J_P

[goldfinder]

Hi Goldfinder,
After hearing how you discovered the time interval to set your PIC filter to, I am beginning to wonder if this is the same kind of signal that is believed to come from long time buried gold.
Let's start with the method you used to generate the pulses:

You began with a static detector that could pick up electrostatic fields from a Jfet with very high amplification. And you noticed some narrow bandwidth pulses occasionally coming naturally, which could also be induced by creating static charges near the detector. Using classical electronic theory, we would recognise these pulses as very small static discharges, which may cause a change in the static voltage to drop maybe between a few hundred volts to a few thousand volts. I would think these are micro-sparks similar to the sparks you may notice snapping from your finger when you touch a door knob on a dry day after walking across a carpet. These pulses may be generated as a result of sparks or discharges that are not large enough to be seen or heard as a distinct spark like you can feel snapping at your skin. But if we were to go to a microscopic scale and observe these tiny sparks, we would see them as a miniature lightning storm with several arcs repeating in approximately the same air space where the first arc strikes, due to the more conductive air which has ionised during the spark. If I am correct, then each micro-spark will produce millions of ionised air molecules which I would think take at least several seconds to neutralise or dissipate in the non-ionised air. And the pulse would represent the detection of rapid change in the e field in front of the detector that is seen as dropping probably a few hundred volts in several closely spaced steps as each successive micro-spark happens in a cluster of sparks. When an equilibrium has been reached, the micro-sparks will stop until the static charge builds up again to start another cluster of micro-sparks. If I am correct that the narrow pulse is caused by a tiny cluster of sparks, then there is some ionisation of the air in the area of the spark, which I presume neutralises shortly after the spark is finished. The point is I am thinking you built a spark detector. It detects ions of air that were ionised during a static discharge, but the prime event your filter is detecting is the occurrence of a static discharge spark.

If I am correct that you have built a static discharge pulse detector, then how does this relate to treasure hunting?
;
.
So what ionic activity can we detect from buried gold?
Is it possible to create an artificial electronic disturbance to the ongoing gold ion process that will result in a measurable signal to a remote detector?

Best wishes,
J_P

Well JP - you are certainly thinking of this in depth.
I do think that what I have does measure Static Discharge which is another way of saying what I wrote.

your last questions - if there is ionic activity above buried gold then there should be an electrostatic difference between the gold ion column and the surrounding area. Detecting this would be difficult as there are so many natural ion charge sources that are at the surface and I did see lots of this. That was why I ended up with the static discharge detection as I thought it might be more reliable.

And other question - creating an artificial disturbance in the column of gold area - Not sure how to do that. I do know that walking on sand and rocks cause static discharge.
Goldfinder

[goldfinder]

A column of ions = a column of electrostatic charge

JP,
This came to me on going out to water one of our big trees. The idea that the gold ions form a column of electrostatic charge offers a potential method of detection. There is an E-field vector along this column. So if we make a directional e-field detector it might be possible to detect this gold ion column along its depth. Depends n surrounding soil dampening the field to make it non-detectable. ?? And of course having a directional e-field vector detector.

So what do you think of this idea?
Goldfinder